2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

The short version as I understand it is that the producers have taken all the price appreciation that used to be inherent in en primeur purchases for themselves.
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AKR
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by AKR »

And they also seem to release far more library stock 5, 10 years later than I recall. And its not small amounts but 50-100 case lots sent straight to auction to get top dollar.

So I'm not really concerned about missing out, just about anything from that region can be found later.

I do think 2014 and 2015 seemed to offer reasonable enough value though, in the context of fine wines. I've hardly bought anything though, maybe under a half case of 15.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Nicklasss »

Finally we received the offer for the 2016 in Québec, prices are insane... I will buy limited number of bottles.

Can you imagine Chateau Pavie at... 695 $cad? Ridiculous.

Nic
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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

Pavie at $355 here in the US is bad enough. But C$695? That makes no sense even at the current exchange rate.
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JeanFred
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by JeanFred »

Finally

I put a order: I bought a case of... 2015!

With the price of 2016, specialy in Qc, I decided to buy more 2015.

Price 2015 vs 2016

6x Poyferré 130 - 163$

3 x. L Barton 125 - 157$

3 x. Giscours 89 - 107$
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JimHow
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by JimHow »

Well done, Jean Fred... well done indeed.
That is much closer to my buying strategy.
Those re three of my favorite estates these days.
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JeanFred
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by JeanFred »

At the end, I prefer my 2015 "extra" case than 2 bottles of Pavie 2016
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brodway
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by brodway »

seeing the inventory of 2014s trickling into the US markets with ho hum enthusiasm, i'm more inclined to believe Arv's theory of backwardation as it comes to Bordeaux. should there be another financial slow down (and they do come every 7-10 years), i'd think the Bordelais would be more pressured in being able to sell $100-200 a bottle wine and i can not imagine the markets absorbing the quantity of inventory the Bordelais have in storage at the prices being asked.

i was more enthusiastic at first hoping to score some reasonably priced futures, but other than a few lower end purchases, i don't see the value in $100 Bordeaux futures. add in inflation over next 3 to 4 years when these wines get released, albeit only about 2% per year, i think i would still be better off holding off and buying them at 10-20% higher if i really wanted them in the future. we as a consumer would also benefit from having more information as how the wine develops and make more intelligent choices, avoiding some expensive mistakes as the wines mature in the bottle; so time is on our side.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Nicklasss »

I bought some futures today, couldn't pass.

A first step, maybe some more to come.

Nic
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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

I haven't bought any wine since Thanksgiving. 226 days. No Bordeaux younger than 2012, and those only due to BWE arm twisting.

Until today. I'd been resisting and resisting. Then along came Ian's write up, and I could feel myself weakening. Ultimately it was Peggy, though, who encouraged me to take the plunge.

Shortly after the stroke of midnight, I clicked the "buy" button on 2 cases of 2016 Bordeaux futures. A half-case each of Conseillante and Pichon Lalande, plus 2s of a half dozen others. Including Grand Puy Lacoste, which I fully intend to spring on Jim blind at some point, hopefully after he's forgotten this post.
.
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JimHow
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by JimHow »

Well done, DavidG. Very well done indeed.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Nicklasss »

A few 2016 coming my way:

Domaine de Chevalier and Malescot Saint-Exupéry.

I'm still meditating on what other 2016 should come this way. But there will be a bit more.

Nic

P.S. i'm so weak. But davidg posting is a deliverance.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Congratulations David

1. On your abstinence
2. Your wise decision to purchase two show stopping wines. You won't regret it.

Apart from GPL what else did you buy?
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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

Pichon Baron
Haut Bailly
Canon
Figeac
Tour St Christophe (the only one that's a total unknown but cheap enough to take a flyer based on hype)

I'll How a few of them on arrival and hope I live long enough to enjoy them in their prime.
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Claudius2
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Claudius2 »

Folks
I finalised my 2016 order today, and have ordered cases (12) of each of the following:

St Emilion - becoming a bit of a favourite for me - must be getting old....
La Fleur Cardinale
Moulin St Georges
La Dominique
Bellefont Belcier

St Juilen
Branaire Ducru

Margaux

Prieure' Lichine
Labegorce

I am not buying any from the more northerly areas of the Medoc (St Estephe and Pauillac) partly as they are getting too expensive and I seem to prefer the flavours of other appellations these days.
In an ideal world, I'd like to buy wines like Cos, Montrose, LLC, Pichon Lalande etc but I am no longer buying expensive.
The most expensive wine is Branaire at $S71 (about $US50 plus local tax on arrival) and that I can live with.
The St Emilion wines are $S40-50 (about $US28 to $36 plus tax).

The importer here talked me into buying Labegorce. I have never had much time for this wine and Labegorce Zede always tasted better to this palate but I have taken a punt on it.
It was that or Cantemerle at the same price but that wine has never done it for me. Even the 2005 was rather bland to this palate.

At the age of 60, and with quite a few wines from 2005, 2009 and 2010 in storage, I will only buy future en primeurs if the prices are fine - probably due to currency valuations.
I also ordered 13 cases of Remoissenet burgundies (white and red) from the Domaine recently, thus I am going to sit on my wallet for a while and let it recover.
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AKR
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by AKR »

yikes that's a lot of wine.
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brodway
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by brodway »

Claudius

i like your strategy and doing much of same. agree that there are tons of QPR wines from St. Emilion region. Also picked up Labegorce and St. Christophe. Will probably pick up Sansonnet, Branaire and a few other sub $50 per bottle names. I have at least 10 cases of left bank wines from 2000, 2013, 2005 and 2010 at much lower price points than being offered for the 2016, so i don't feel like i'm losing out at all. Also, think there will be an opportunity to pick up 2014's at substantial discount to the 2016 counter parts
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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

I was tempted by Prieure Lichine but didn't pull the trigger.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Nicklasss »

Thanks Claudius for reminding me Chateau Labegorce. I might go for some.

Still thinking... 2016 seems like many others here, my type of vintage. And I have a tough time thinking that if 2022 if quite the same, it will be cheaper.

Nic
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Claudius2 »

David,
Prieure Lichine is a good value at the moment thus I don't think you can go wrong.
I have drunk these wines for some decades, and it was a bit patchy for some time, but has been on form in recent vintages.

Nicklass,
The retailer says the Labegorce has really hit a sweet spot and is a "must buy" (okay, okay, heard that all before...) in 2016.
It was relatively inexpensive at $S40 (about $US28 plus tax) so I bit.

brodway,
I actually think that you are better off paying more for 2015 and 2016 and forgetting 2014, unless the wine is a serious over-performer in that vintage.
I was in Bordeaux early last yr and wasn't that taken by 2014.
So I am not bothering with any average vintages.

Arvind,
Oh it is only 7 cases. I have not bought any en primeur Bordeaux since the 2010 vintage, thus I have been filling the storage unit with Burgundy and Australian wine.
I also moved from Australia early 2010 and ended up selling the storage unit - meaning that over here, I am effectively starting again.
Must admit I would like to be able to re-buy them at the same price.
It is too hard (expensive, time consuming and fraught with heat damage and breakage) having them flown over from Australia when I already paid 46% wine tax.

Seriously I was trying to resist buying any but everyone has told me the wines are outstanding.
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DavidG
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by DavidG »

My first Prieure Lichine was the 1983. I ended up with 2 cases of it and have bought the wine on and off every few vintages. Often very good but not great, and at times an excellent value.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Nicklasss »

Thanks to greatbdxfreak, AlexR and Comte flaneur, for your review of the vintage, and enthusiasm.

Yesterday I bought some of the great first organic vintage of La Lagune and the best ever made Beychevelle.

Nic
Last edited by Nicklasss on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Claudius2
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Claudius2 »

Nicklass,
I seriously thought of both of those wines.
I have always like La Lagune, and the 82, 83 and 90 were outstanding in fact, I think 83 was better than 82.
It seemed to founder a bit in the 90s and early 00's but I started buying it again in 2010 - first case I had bought for decades of LL
The wine is a bit more like a Margaux than most Haut Medocs due to its location.

Beychevelle seemed a bit expensive here. It was $S105 (about $US 76 plus taxes) compared to $71 for the Branaire Ducru or Langoa Barton.
This wine has always been a bit unpredictable to me.
I have drunk it since the 1966 vintage, and most vintages, it was lighter and less complex than some other St Juilens.
Yet it was one of the wines that showed me the style of the Medoc - before this, I had little idea that Bordeaux was better than simple AC Bordeaux on sale at the supermarket.
The wines that really got me hooked on Bordeaux were however mainly St Julien. I just wish Ducru Beaucaillou was still affordable.
The best vintage I ever had of Beychevelle was (surprisingly) the 88 - an under-rated vintage that was at least partly ignored after the hype with 89 and 90.
I tried the 88,89 and 90 in a small vertical some yrs ago and the 88 was by far the best - the 90 was surprisingly lighter and seemed less ripe. Oh well.

So I will wait and see for now - maybe try in on commerical release rather than en primeur
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone biting?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Claudious I think Nic is right about the 2016 Beychevelle. It can be a light wine, as you mention the 1990 was a disappointment after the 1989 - thanks for the tip on the 1988. The 1986 is also a very good wine. The 1995 and 1996 are charming medium weight old style clarets, perhaps lacking a bit in stuffing and length but very classical nevertheless.

I have a case of 2000 which I plan to release within the next year when I have more space. I have heard mainly good things about it. But I think the vintage which moved the game on is 2005. Like many fives it has a powerful core of ripe fruit; unlike many fives it is already drinking very well. It is an incredibly attractive wine. The 2009 and 2010 are a bit thicker but don't quite match it. The 2016 moves the game forward as much as the 2005 did. Where it does is in having incredible dilineation and precision, while being as light on its feet as the wines of 20 years yonder.
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Nicklasss
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Re: 2016 Bordeaux futures - anyone bitting

Post by Nicklasss »

I like your two last sentences Ian, about the 2016 Beychevelle.

It is not a wine I had often, but Saint-Julien with precision, elegance and "move the game", is Nicklasss kind of wine.

I wish we'll enjoy that wine together in the future. And a Domaine de Chevalier with AlexR. And why not a Chateau La Lagune with greatbdxfreak?

Nic
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