Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Was just reading Comte's "disappointment" over the 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste.
Comte....
Comte my man....
You know I love you.
But come on, man.
I've been telling you guys this for years now.
Grand Puy Lacoste may be the single most overrated wine of Bordeaux.
This wine, people, sucks the bag!
Comte's experience with the 2000 is just one of MANY, MANY, MANY examples of GPLs that have FAILED, over, and OVER, and OVER again, over the years.
This wine is piss, people.
It is complete fraud.
Somehow they produced a decent product in 1995. And 1982 in VERY inconsistent bottlings. Some of them were excellent, many others were puke.

Look. we all want GPL to do well. I mean, it is a PAUILLAC, after all, right?
But it just ain't there, people.
The 2005, 2009, and 2010 GPLs are vomit-inducing.
They suck big time.

Grand Puy Lacoste:
Arguably the most overrated wine in Bordeaux.
It is a wine of $14.99 supermarket level quality....

Afterwards, they celebrated with a jeroboam of GPL.

Ouch this is a tough crowd. I don't have a lot of experience with GPL but do get to taste it every year at the UGC and have bought a bunch but I think that the 2014 will restore everyones faith as at its just under $60 price point (or 40% less than the Pichon's), it is as good a Pauillac that you will find in my honest opinion.

I liked the 82 and got rid of my 90's.

Wow, Jim's not mincing words but I'd like to know how you really feel about GPL. I haven't had the same negative experience and I'm not so sure why so harsh on GPL. Those recent Lynch's should get you more riled up than GPL I would have thought. Now there's bad QPR!

Well I think Jim being the Lawyer is in the mode where he is representing a serial axe murderer who shoots baby pandas in his spare time and pretending he is the salt of the earth. Just the other way around. He is overstating his case on the basis of a few disappointments. Eventually we will agree that GPL has lost its lustre, but is not really such a bad wine, though the 2009 may have been an ill-advised foray into spoofery.

I suggest we do a live Bordeaux/Paris - London - East Coast - Texas - West Coast live tasting of the 1996 GPL.

Then we can discuss it over a conference call - live.

Btw Neal Martin is a big fan of GPL:

2016 - 95/97
2015 - 94/96
2012 - 92/94
2010 - 97
2009 - 94/96
2008 - 92
2006 - 94
2005 -97

Just sayin...


My 2000 was poor a few days ago but the previous bottle was much better.

My overall assessment is that it is a fairly generic Pauillac, that sometimes outperforms its Station in life - 1995 and 1996 - but there have been some disasters like 2003. It is not a wine that I would consider buying these days. The 1982 is very good but lacks excitement and complexity.

JimHow wrote:Was just reading Comte's "disappointment" over the 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste.
.
.
.
It is a wine of $14.99 supermarket level quality....

Wow. That's pretty harsh, Jim.

I have a six pack of 2009 and three bottles of 2010 (Purchased based on UGC tastings). Also, holding to the last two bottles of 96 GPL. I agree GPL hasn't risen up lately (shall we say since 95, 96) considering it's fifth growth pedigree, and also agree that 2003 is an abomination (at least both times I have had). Relative to the quality and price point, I see your pain. I digress, but as Danny pointed out, I am more fed up with my beloved Lynch as they charge no less than 100 bucks no matter the vintage and the quality does not reflect.

I know GPL charges a bit more than Haut Batailley, but both are fifth growths, and if GPL is a $14 super market wine, then Haut Batailley is a $2 dollar Jug wine? And I can only imagine what can be said of the second growth Rauzan Gassies...

The discussion makes me want to open a split of 09 and see what's happening...

Man, Jim! Did Xavier Borie sleep with your girlfriend or something? Usually you're a champion ranter but GPL reduces you to just spewing obscenities.

GPL would be justly celebrated if they were a $35-40 wine from a more obscure appellation. As a Paulliac at twice the price their hit rate/consistency is too low. But it's not like they never have a hit.

1996 GPL was terrific

2005 GPL is a superb wine (you couldn't be more wrong on this one)

2009 GPL is much too California for me but I'd take it over a supermarket wine any day of the week

True that 2010 GPL was a total dud when we had it, less offensive than completely absent/shut down. But given positive CT reviews I'd be curious to try this one again in a few years.

Haven't tried the 2000 yet but have a few socked away, curious to try one in a few years given positive CT reviews.

In general one can do a lot better at the same price point in St Julien or Margaux, and that's where I buy these days. But I'm glad to be long on e.g. 05 GPL

GPL, Haut Batailley, Lacoste Borie
the entire stable showed extremely well at the 2010 release party...GPL was a stand out...Lacoste Borie top 3 qpr of the tasting...lots of big names attended.

jmho

I'm just giving you guys the business.
I mean, GPL is a weak wine, especially for the price.
It doesn't "suck," it's just not worth much more than $15-20.
I just don't know how a wine can constantly underperform, especially in years like 2000, 2009, etc., and be considered legitimate, especially at the prices they are seeking.
But.. hey... if you guys like it, more power to you!
It's what makes the world go 'round!

Bernie's favorite tipple was Grand Puy Lacoste, on ice with cola mixed in !!!

I'm really happy to read what the BD wrote initially in that post, about GPL. For me, a great proof our BD is Human : bashing what he doesn't understand or what he disagree.

If GPL is that bad, I'm ok to accept that, but it means that all other wines from the 1855 classification are the same because part of the same terroir and story... And I'm not ok to accept that second part, so GPL is in the same ballpark as the other Crus Classés, so a special wine, in the top 1-2 % of red wines produced in these top terroir.

Nic

Can we say HYPERBOLE or in this electronic age TROLL. Never had a bad 1982, though not every bottle of Petrus is perfect either. It's not a fraud but it may be underperforming. Underperforming is not a trait solely owned by GPL. I do understand you don't like. That's your right. Oh well..

Bill

JimHow wrote:I'm just giving you guys the business.
I mean, GPL is a weak wine, especially for the price.
It doesn't "suck," it's just not worth much more than $15-20.
I just don't know how a wine can constantly underperform, especially in years like 2000, 2009, etc., and be considered legitimate, especially at the prices they are seeking.
But.. hey... if you guys like it, more power to you!
It's what makes the world go 'round!

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Jim!

Hi,

Count me as a fan of GPL. Had the 04 last week and loved it.

It is a Pauillac with a feminine side .

Robert, please note that the Borie family have just sold Haut-Batailley to the Cazes family of Lynch Bages.

Alex R.

the '95 we had a couple years back I couldn't keep my meat hooks off...
but yes I agree with Alex... more feminine would work here.

A feminine Pauillac.
That's like saying you have some great Olympic warrior but you've taken his manhood away.
When did Pauillac become feminine?

Jim
Not sure I'd go as far as saying that the GPL is a fraud, but I have stopped buying it after 2000.
I bought a case of the 2000 on indent and after trying one, ended up sending it off to auction.

The last GPL I enjoyed was the 1990, and the 1996 was okay, was a little underwhelming.
Like the 2000, I sent the remainder of the OWC to action and just bought something else.
So I have not had my expectations met, in fact, I've sometimes thought that surely, there should be more to it than that.

I would have to say that there are a handful of well renowned wines that I have never been taken with, GPL one of them.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment Claudius.
My post is hyperbolic to make a point, but I view GPL in about the same way you do.

Hi Jim,

Your post made me smile .

Gender roles ain’t what they used to be…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... embourg-pm
Imagine: the photos of spouses of heads of state including a husband from a gay marriage!

Seriously though, a sturdy wine (let’s say a Châteauneuf-du-Pape like Charvin or a Pauillac like GPL) that is light on its feet does not put my nose out of joint. OK, if you had your face fixed for something more virile, I could see how that might let you down. But what was important with the 2004 GPL (indeed, that often fits in with that château’s particular flavor profile) is that it had the *aromatics* associated with Pauillac – which my guests immediately guessed) – if not quite the full-bodiedness. It was not diluted or wishy-washy, just less broad and strong. Such wines shine more at table than at tastings.

Best,
Alex

JimHow wrote:
... and 2010 GPLs are vomit-inducing.
They suck big time.
...

Not if the bottle I opened last night is a valid reference point.

While decanting, a lovely dark fruit aroma wafted up to my nose.
However, I poured a sip right away and there was little more on the nose than a hint of tar and nothing at all on the palate.
Occasional samples while working on dinner preparations showed little progress other than improved fruit character on the palate.
After 3 hours I detected a more substantial change as the tannins finally woke up, driving a longer, slightly drying finish.
By the time dinner was ready about 4 1/2 hours after decanting the wine was just about ready as well.
Rich, dark cassis driven fruit, with reasonable tannin level and sufficient acidity.
There was no overt oak presence or pyrazine on the palate, and the long finish had the mild bite and bitterness of ripe blackberries.
To me, the nose remained somewhat reticent the entire time, but on the palate, this became everything I wish for in a young Grand Cru wine.
I give it a solid A.

@racer Chis @ jim how
Way too young guys. Let's revisit in 2030.
Best wishes for 2018.

I opened a 2014 yesterday morning, decanted for 2 1/2 hours, returned to bottle, and took to dinner at a friend's house in the evening.
The first pour was still a little closed but it opened up nicely in only a short time. During dinner it was perfect.
It's loaded with cassis, with a healthy dose of tobacco and spice. The acidity is well balanced, the tannins are smooth and the finish lingers from sip to sip.
This is a top ten vintage for Grand Puy Lacoste, and the best bang for buck from Pauillac in 2014.
Maybe not as powerful as the 2010 but not far behind, and it is more accessible now.
I think I'll buy another one to drink soon and a few more to save for maturity.

Other wines at the table included a 2012 Tenuta di Biserno Biserno and a 2013 Continuum Novicium.
I would have trouble picking a winner, as each shone for what it was intended to be.
The Biserno is a really fine, full bodied Cabernet Franc from Bibbona Tuscany, with the typical ashtray and tobacco notes one might expect. I loved it.
The Novicium showed more Cabernet Sauvignon typicity, but with a subtlety you don't get in most Napa Valley Cabernets, and in spite of more than 2 hours decant before guests arrived, it wasn't fully open until well into dinner.

I’m glad to see you enjoyed it Chris, it sounds like a Pauillac of Mouton-Baron-Lalande quality.
I wish my palate enjoyed it as much.

Go for GPL 2014.
Think 2015 and 2016 will be better.
This Chateau is hot......

Jim, are you saying that GPL is as good as Mouton-Baronne-Philippe? D'Armailhac is one of the most consistent Pauillacs-always pleasing and typical; never among the best. Upon occasion GPL played out of its league, but not now. Will Pontet-Canet suffer the same fate? I doubt it as the attention to detail at P-C is so good.

If I could choose between d'Armhailac and GPL I'd choose d'Armhailac.

I bought a couple of 2016 GPL as futures.
Hoping to live long enough to enjoy them.
Might bring one blind to the 2036 BWE Convention.

Seem like the 2036 BWE convention will be in Pyongyang, in the united Korea, where everyone will live in harmony, enjoying good red Bordeaux.

I'll be ready for that, with a bottle of 2021 GPL.

Nic

I am so done with this estate. There are many better wines at better prices to buy and GPL has disappointed me too often.

Jim -

I had another 2014 Saturday, and it was great.

If you can pick up a bottle, I think you should give it a try - particularly given what you've said about the vintage.

I'm not a massive fan of GPL but had a 2010 on the weekend and it was positively brilliant. Big tannic and rich monster, full of Pauillac character and aromatics.
I don't buy GPL, I admit to finding it usually pretty boring, but I will certainly seek this vintage out.

I bought some 2010s as well.

My last bottle (Jan-Feb 2017 I believe) was closed, but previous bottles were excellent

I loved my early bottle of the 2014 as well and bought four for long-term aging. Really fresh, deep but still delicate.

With all that said, while my experience has been that there are many very good vintages of GPL, I sort of get Jim's angle even if he expresses it with his usual overstatement. I've had good experiences, but my frustration level with GPL has also been somewhat higher than other wines of comparable breed. Just this summer I opened a 2000 GPL and the nose and palate were sensational for about 15 minutes and then it shut down hard. A 2005 I had a couple of years ago was also very shut down. In both cases we were at restaurants so limited decanting was possible. It just seems like GPL's aging curve is longer/less predictable than a lot of other wines. Or maybe it doesn't have the extra depth to show decently when it is shut down or something, so there is nothing to buffer the Paulliac hardness.

When I take some of my experiences and imagine them through the frame of a passionate and combative wine board troll I can see how Jim's vicious condemnation of GPL might result.

I would sooo love to love GPL.
It's from my favorite appellation.
As I have said elsewhere, I found the 2014 GPL to be one of the least offensive of the GPLs that I've had, although I found it nowhere nearly as serious as, say, Calon Segur, Leoville Barton, etc.
I have 5 bottles of the 2014 GPL in the cellar in the foolish hope that it will develop into something more. I found it light-bodied, round, soft, a lot less compelling than most of the 2014 left-bankers I've had. Still, I'll agree it is perhaps a notch above the supermarket-level of quality that GPL has been producing for generations.
What are your thoughts, marcs, on why that 2010 GPL you brought to DC was so undrinkable?
It wasn't a flawed bottle, and I find it hard to believe it could be that awkward, even in its youth.

I thoroughly enjoyed the bottle of 2010 I drank New Years Eve. I may have to get another one to age a bit more, but at $110 per it may have to wait until my 2014 buying spree ends.
Next on my list is another bottle of '14 PLL, two more '14 Malescot St Exupery, two more '14 GPL, and a few cellar defenders such as the 2015 Chateau de Chantegrive.

My experience is limited, but so far I am not a believer in 2010.

So we opened another 2000 GPL last night.

What a let down.

This is a wine which is quite a long way along the evolutionary curve.

It even has some tertiary, as well as secondary, notes.

This is a wine that can barely be bothered to get out of bed, and just goes through the motions.

Now ostensibly it is a pleasant mature claret.

But it is already quite soft.

What I did not like was the lack of focus, and especially the lack of precision. Like an old photo from the family album that is out of focus, fuzzy and faded.

Amongst the ill-defined flavours I got rhubarb.

MEK liked it more than I did and thought I was being harsh. She thought I had my JimHow hat on.

We are having the 2001 at our annual Christmas dinner on 13 December with a bunch of other clarets. I hope it is better than the 2000.

The 2016 is a beauty, so this experience will not prevent me from pursuing a six pack of that.

Arguing with someone who wants to say that GPL is piss-water is like going on a BMW forum and seeing someone rant that the Audis suck. It's pointless.

To say Jim's opinion is contrarian is kind.

I like GPL. So does just about every professional critic. So do all my wine friends. And, having tasted GPLs from dozens of vintages -- very often blind -- I can't calibrate to someone who thinks it's $20 wine.

You're alone on that island, Jim.

BordeauxNut wrote: You're alone on that island, Jim.

Not alone!

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