Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

So I went out to eat with a new to me wine group the week before last at the Tamarack Country Club in Greenwich, CT and to pair alongside the seared foie gras course one of the guys had graciously brought splits of both a 1990 and 2004 Chateau d'Yquem and it got me thinking, do you generally prefer your Sauternes younger or older?

As for me, I would have to say it depends as while the 1990 was without a doubt the better and more complete wine, on this night and alongside the foie gras I much preferred the 2004. And as I was sipping on both these elixirs a relatively simple value oriented question entered my mind (that I did not utter out loud) which was, is this esteemed Sauternes worthy of its lofty pricing? Now I have zero bottles of d'Yquem in the cellar mostly b/c it is outside my comfort zone per bottle but I think that I would have been just as happy, if not happier, drinking a split of 2013 Coutet that I paid under $20 for about a year ago during a Zachys sale. Food for thought.

1. I like younger Sauternes with food and older ones by themselves or with just fruit.

2. There is tremendous value in Sauternes. Yquem is very expensive and Climens and Rieussec have gone up a lot in recent years, but most other great Sauternes have not. None of these are worth much of a premium, IMO. In particular, I think the quality difference between first growth red Bdx and the super seconds is greater than that between Yquem and fine first growth Sauternes.

Ditto Stefan. I love sauterne but don't see the value in Yquem. Too many other fabulous sauterne at a bargain pricing. Even Canadian icewines are double the price of most sauterne and can't hold a kettle of fish by comparison. Love the acidity and complexity of a good sauterne and I must say I like them younger in most cases. I find the caramelized oxidative notes of most older sauterne not as pleasing to me as the young to intermediate age 10-15yrs zippy acidity and fruit that I far prefer. I wouldn't turn down Yquem by any means just wouldn't buy it at todays prices.

I like them cold, and often

Although I know they pair well with certain rich savory foods, generally we just have them with fruity desserts. Henry (of Henrys Evergreen fame in NYC) used to pair them with an amazing orange shrimp dish he had as a starter. Surprising, yet excellent. Sadly, I don't think his children carried on his work, nor his appreciation for fine wine.

=======

I agree with you on Coutet -- it's one of my favorites for all purposes. Great enough for wine geeks, and enough verve to give it flexibility.

Stefan - there's a chance you might be able to convince GWVM up in the PNW to sell you some 2006 Rieussec for $360/cs or so. They have a lot and periodically have discounted it down to that level at certain times in the last few years. I've not stepped up -- they are a UPS shipper only, which doesn't work for me -- but perhaps your charm might coax a little price concession out of them. With flagships like Rieussec, I wouldn't care what vintage I was drinking.

PS: I saw someone on WB raving on about the 67 d'Yquem -- thank you SDR for sharing that with so many of this spring !

Cold and often sounds good to me too. And with a day or three in the fridge after opening if they can avoid our gullets for that long.

As to age, I like them young, love them middle-aged (as they turn gold and early copper), but don't like them old (fully copper to brown or dark caramel/chocolate).

Thanks for the tip, Arv. I do have a couple of cases of Rieussec, but not the 2006. One is more likely to get a deal on it than on Climens.

Put me down as another lover of Coutet, BTW.

Had a 1997 Yquem with foie gras for lunch yesterday.

A marriage made in heaven.

Sauternes as a "food wine" takes some imagination and thinking outside the box, but it goes well with many savory foods.

Desserts are a minefield. Basic rule is: not too sweet.

Best,
Alex R.

Brilliant question JC

1. I like Sauternes - when I say Sauternes I mean Barsac as well - young and old. My favourite wine of all time was the 1937 d'Yquem, but I also really enjoyed the few 2016s I tried.

2. I drink it remarkably infrequently, which is foolish...'cold and often'...I wish...

3. The estate that I keep coming back to is Coutet - so I agree with the sentiments already expressed, and such a humble well-mannered estate, which we visited on 21 May 2015 straight after Chateau d'Yquem.

4. My daughter's middle name Is Yquem. She turned 20 last Thursday and I still have't turned over her case of 1997 to her, but I have a case for myself as well...I should start drinking it I guess.

5. I still think that Yquem is head and shoulders above everything else. A lot of British folk labour under the misapprehension that Climens is first among equals. I boycotted a tasting dinner earlier this year on this issue and was reassured that Climens was resoundingly put in its place by the superior wine that is Chateau D'Yquem, especially in the 1988 vintage.

6. They say that 2001 was the greatest modern vintage, but I think 2009 will challenge it

7. Getting back to an earlier point I think Coutet is doing everything right. The 2016 Coutet was significantly better than the 2016 Climens.

Ian,

The owner of Ch. Coutet gave me a bottle of 1995 "Cuvée Madame".
I have one bottle left of 95 Yquem.
I think it would be fun to taste them side by side one day if you're game .

As for 97 Yquem, and even though we frequently have different views with regard to ageing, I honestly think this is ready to go.
You should open up one of your bottles soon to see for yourself!

Alex

What a wonderful prospect Alex! The 1995 - and 1996 - Yquems are so wonderful in my limited experience. I guess Yquem is consistent from vintage to vintage like Latour.

I like my Sauternes chilled and on the younger side.
That 2011 d'Yquem we had in Bordeaux... Mmmmm.

1-When I first discovered Sauternes I preferred them young. As I have aged, I like the aged ones more and more. 2- I remember when Coutet was clearly in the lesser half of the first growths, but the past 15 years has seen a real improvement. 3-When some of the Sauternes started making "special" cuvees such as the aforementioned Cuvee Madame, I remember thinking would these rob the regular wines of some of an extra spark. And I think they did to a degree. 4- To opine about Yquem, in great years the others come close to Yquem, but lesser years the is a real jump in quality. 5- Lastly, an aside: What has happened to Doisy Dubroca? One hears about Daene and Vedrines, but not Dubroca (nicknamed the 'poor man's Climens)

Doisy Dubroca was sold by the Lurtons to the late Denis Dubourdieu, owner of several estates, including Doisy-Daënes and Chantegril in Barsac.
http://www.denisdubourdieu.fr/index.php?p=6&l=EN

Doisy Dubroca is itsy bitsy (just over 3 hectares).
I really don't know why it was sold by the Lurton family. As you know, nothing would have prevented the wines from simply becoming Climens (vineyard land within the same appellation, and therefore not subject to any restrictions).

Since Doisy-Daëne is so much better known that Doisy Dubroca, the latter may simply be absorbed into the former, because this would be intelligent in many ways. I'll try to find out about this.

Yours sincerely,
À lex R.

Doisy Dubroca has been incorporated in Doisy Daëne and will host storage buildings and offices. It was a long time dream of father of Denis Dubordieu to merge these two properties.

Thanks all. Yes it was small, but what few I had were good-but I selectively drink the better years in Sauternes.

I like 'em old. When young, I find the acidity and sugar dating but not yet married. Too shrill for me.

Yquem lasts (almost) forever. An '83 recently from a 375 was delicious of course but will get even better. The stuff from the '70s and '60s is still wonderful. While Yquem is the "best," sometimes I want something less powerful.

Climens is variable, sometimes great, sometimes disappointing.

A '71 Coutet recently was fabulous in its modest sweetness and great complexity.

Most of the guys I drink with don't appreciate Sauternes, though. And it's hard to drink even a half bottle after a sh*tload of champagne, white and red in one evening.

Stu

Amazing value in Sauternes outside of d'Yquem. Picked up four splits of 2007 Suduiraut at $25/each recently.

drank a 90 Yquem from a 375 last night. Pretty wonderful with years to go. Wide open at first then began to close a bit. Everything in balance.

Sauterne is probably the only varietal that I prefer to drink young as opposed to mature. I prefer the freshness of the sweet young wine over the complexity (almost caramel like) in what they become when the sugar is resolved. One of my biggest wine disappointments was the 61 D'Yquem,which I had about ten years ago. It was dark in color (like a cola) and almost petrol like on the nose.

Give me a 4-5 year old Rieussec, Climens, Doisy-Daene or even a Stoney Hill Semillon del Soliel over most mature Sauterne any day!

AlexR wrote:Had a 1997 Yquem with foie gras for lunch yesterday.

A marriage made in heaven.

Sauternes as a "food wine" takes some imagination and thinking outside the box, but it goes well with many savory foods.

Desserts are a minefield. Basic rule is: not too sweet.

Best,
Alex R.

would love to hear your recommendations for savory matches with Sauternes. Aside from foie gras of course, already well known, but I have trouble going beyond that to other things.

Roasted chicken; steak with a blue cheese sauce; Thai food with a little spice This'll get you going.

I love Sauternes (just finished up a bottle of 2001 Sigalas Ribaud last night) but really wouldn't want it with a steak.

That's what red wine technology is for !

A-don't knock it till you've tried it! Can be great.