Bourgogne: bigger is now better?

[Nicklasss]

When I started to be interested in wine about 22-23 years ago, it seems to me that in Bourgogne, everybody were promoting the small producers over the big ones. The négociants, were having less trophy too.

In the last 5 years (maybe a bit more), the big producers and/or négociants seems to have the wind in their sails. Louis Jadot and Joseph Drouhin have always been respected in North America, but many others that were having a tough time then, are now producing excellent to great wines, like Boisset, Bouchard Père et Fils, Chanson, Remoissenet, Louis Latour, Faiveley, Albert Bichot, Vincent Girardin...

The small producers are still there, but it seems to me that the big ones made the changes needed (winemaker, vine growing, marketing, ressources attribution...) to have better wines and better reputation than in the past.

My question: is it fair to think that Bourgogne big producers/négociants are now a safer choice for getting excellent pinot noir/chardonnay at (relatively speaking) a better price, for wines from that famous area?

Nic

[stefan]

>>
is it fair to think that Bourgogne big producers/négociants are now a safer choice for getting excellent pinot noir/chardonnay at (relatively speaking) a better price, for wines from that famous area?
>>

I think so, especially when they are Domaine wines.

[AlexR]

Négociant wines have generally had a bad rap in many French vineyard regions but, I agree, their wines are more dependable these days.

The strength of the negociants lies in their commercial expertise and their ability to sell larger quantities and across more appellations that growers.

I have been impresse with several tastings where the négociant wines outshone grower wines.

Burgundy has always been hard to buy due to the tiny quantities, but the négociants make things easier.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[Comte Flaneur]

We are large consumers of Bourgogne Blanc especially and generally had better luck with growers - higher highs and lower lows - but the former outweighs the latter because we are thrill seekers.

[Antoine]

No, the big have not got better than the small but:
- Prices have gone up a lot
- Big negociants can spend a lot more of money in marketing
- They get more exposure and publicity
- The small producers don't do more marketing as they continue to do what they used to (visits,...) and they rely on reputation

But for me the quality gap is still the same:
1 - Best small producers
2 - Middle quality small and most big producers/negociants
3 - Bad/mediocre small producers


Reassuring: There are no bad big producers as they professionally operate.

Nic asked
"My question: is it fair to think that Bourgogne big producers/négociants are now a safer choice for getting excellent pinot noir/chardonnay at (relatively speaking) a better price, for wines from that famous area?"

Take Jadot
Jadot has hundreds of wines among which some great owned parcels/wines (Clos St Jacques, Clos de beze...) and compete with small producers (no better, not really worse) but there is a lot of variance between their wines and you just can't trust the brand but have to look at specific wines.
When I visited them, it is clear they cannot really adapt everything to every wine plus for harvesting they have conflicting priorities. They will give priority to their better wines for picking time and for using the vinification facilities, etc... ( they have common equipment) so some lesser wines will be compromised. Also, with 100+ wines, they cannot fine tune specifically for each of them.
But sure enough, they are good at applying latest developments professionally and they are very good at what they do.
Also, unless they own them, they don't get the best plots so may not get the best grapes

My experience is that wrt to pricing,
- Big producers/negociants really try to capture the best value (highest price they can get)
- There is variance for small producers: some try to charge too much (and you can get them at a discount later) and some charge less than they could get... these are those that people like Ian and I are chasing. This has not changed.