TN: Château Palmer Vertical

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sdr
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TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by sdr »

CHÂTEAU PALMER VERTICAL - (8/12/2017)

It's been a long time since I've tasted more that a couple of Palmers at a time, so I rounded up a few local Bordeaux fans to help me with the task. We threw in the '83 Margaux as a comparison.
  • 1995 Louis Roederer Champagne Cristal Brut - France, Champagne
    Fully mature and ready, the '95 Cristal is warm and inviting. Gingery and fruity, very slightly low acidity, easy to drink. Not at all sweet or cloying. (93 pts.)
  • 1990 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    A less than sterling example of the vintage, this bottle of Palmer was unremarkable. Not flawed but lacks flair, fruit and energy. Lighter than the '89 today and less interesting and seemingly much older than it is. Perhaps an off bottle. (89 pts.)
  • 1989 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    Fabulous Palmer now in early maturity, sweet and fragrant, classic and balanced. Rounded tannins. Mulberry and plum. Softer than many '89s and all the better for it, surely one of the best wines of the vintage. Beautiful balance. An unmitigated success. (94 pts.)
  • 1983 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    A rather disappointing showing for what should be one of the best vintages for Palmer. On the positive side there's excellent complexity to its fully mature flavors. Acidity is a bit high, though, which makes the texture thin. Still, it's fine but more intellectually pleasing than pleasurable. (91 pts.)
  • 1982 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    Thanks to DrinkBordeaux for adding this vintage of Palmer for the vertical since I don't have any and haven't tasted it in years, frightened by its mediocre reputation. If this bottle is representative, it is deserved. Shockingly austere and charmless for an '82, a vintage which has produced many voluptuous examples which have evolved very well. Even though our sample of the '83 was not pristine it was clear that the younger of the pair was more successful. The '82 seems unripe and even a touch green. (86 pts.)
  • 1970 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    I have been fortunate to have enjoyed many bottles of 1970 Palmer in the past since it was one of the first Bordeaux I pursued since the late '70s. But perhaps now it is time to bid it a fond farewell. This bottle was representative of how it has been showing lately. It's drying out and the acidity is too prominent, even from a well preserved bottle. So sad. Maybe perfect bottles still in the Mahler-Besse cellars are better, I hope so. (89 pts.)
  • 1983 Château Margaux - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    A great example of '83 Margaux, purchased by Hugh on release. It behaved more like luscious '82, ripe, round, sweet, fragrant and generous. Great mouth feel. Fully mature yet still youthful. Far superior to the '83 Palmer on this night which is not always or even usually the case. (94 pts.)
  • 1966 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    This why vertical tastings are so interesting. Especially compared to the lackluster '70, this bottle of '66 was sensational and nearly the equal of the legendary '61. This is what old Bordeaux is all about and why you can be rewarded for great patience (or a lucky auction purchase). Arguably the best preserved Bordeaux of the vintage along with Latour. What is so striking is its phenomenal complexity of myriad dark berry fruits, savory tannin and juicy acidity. It's impressive when great age adds layers of mystery instead of just subtracting the fruit. (96 pts.)
  • 1961 Château Palmer - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
    It's a huge relief and a great pleasure when a much treasured wine delivers on its promise, so huge are the expectations. What is really annoying though is when the label doesn't provide all the relevant information. Only upon removing the capsule to extract the cork does it reveal that it was recorked in 1998. (This bottle was ex-cellar Mahler-Besse 2007.) In retrospect I suppose it was obviously not the original since the level was mid neck, too good to be true. Nevertheless, it was thrilling, so incredibly sweet and deeply fruity. As it sits in the glass, it becomes more mellow while yielding none of its structural integrity. A rare treat from the greatest vintage of the twentieth century. Could unretouched bottles be as good? (97 pts.)
As always with older wines, there are surprises, some good, some bad. Fortunately, the prized '61 performed well (maybe too well). I've had much better experiences with the '83 Palmer in the past and this bottle of '83 Margaux proved far superior. I'm still an admirer of Château Palmer. Now I need to taste some younger examples.
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Stu
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Thanks Stu for posting. Glad your 61 and 66 showed very well. With the others were there storage issues? The last time I tried the 1982 at our Palmer dinner in London it was magnificent despite the high yields. It is a wine I have had mixed experiences with, however.

As per younger vintages they are making a very big push to be a first growth equivalent. Their pricing is ambitious; positioning somewhere between LLC and LHMB where there is quite a bit of clear blue ocean.
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AKR
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by AKR »

Pretty sweet!
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Nicklasss
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Nicklasss »

Palmer is special. I bought one bottle in my life, of the 1999, for this yearvBWE convention Thursday night dinner. It was almost unremarked that night, but competition was tough.

But each time I had Palmer in the past, from generous people, it has always been a more than excellent wine. The 1995, 1988, 1983 and 1970, i had good experience with.

It is interesting to read great comments about the 66 and 61. Sad that the 90 and 83 were a bit grumpy.

Nic
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Blanquito
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Blanquito »

Great vertical, Stu. I haven’t had many Palmers but a bottle of the 89 that Tom W. brought to a tasting once was pretty spectacular. Good 66s in general are really good in my (limited) experience. The 82 Chateau Margaux that Ian shared 5 years ago or so was pretty awesome as well, I recall, and on the youthful end of things.
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Ognik
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Ognik »

Great vertikal tasting, thank you for sharing.
IMO some great wine at Palmer but also lot of mediocre stuff. Too expensive. Big pass. Rauzan Segla seems to be a better value to me.
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I think Palmer is trying a bit too hard to be a de facto first growth, and pricing accordingly, making it a questionable vfm proposition, if you can afford it.

I agree about Rauzan offering better vfm Ognik, but as a matter of interest, which vintages of Palmer do you regard as mediocre?

With the possible exception of 1995, I can't think of any.
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jal
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by jal »

Wow!
But too bad about the 1983, I really liked it the few times I had it. Along with the 1979, it probably is my favorite Palmer, especially because of the great perfume.
Best

Jacques
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JimHow
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by JimHow »

Is Palmer overrated?
The 1983 and 1999 were great but I'm trying to remember other vintages that really knocked me over.
Then again I can't say I've had enormous experience with this wine.
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stefan
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by stefan »

+1 What Ognik wrote. But I would like to find some Palmer from the 1960s that is attractively priced.
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Ognik
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Ognik »

@comte
Most of 80s and 90s vintages.
Best wines 83, 88, 89, 96, 99, 00. Can't find any exeptional in most of the other vintages.....exept pricing. Think they are trying too hard.
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Comte Flaneur »

My back of the envelope assessment of Palmer vintages:

1961: Never tried, never will. My brother who is a wine philistine but otherwise gifted, called me from Singapore sat opposite Thomas Duroux a few years ago to say it was a 'nice wine, very smooth' - thanks Don I thought

1966: tried in 2011 but was a bit underwhelmed. It lacked the excitement you get in other 66s

1970: Tried twice, good wine also lacks verve and spark

1978: Great wine, variable

1979: On average better than 1978, and more consistent brilliant

1982: High yields, 25 years ago you were supposed to drink up, but it has just got better and better

1983: Really variable, but if you get a good bottle it is extraordinary and easily a match for Ch Margaux

1985: Again variable, but good bottles are just fabulous

1986: Ditto

1988: In my opinion one of the top five wines in this vintage, for me the revelation of our 2015 Palmer dinner in Nov 2015

1989: Still holding back some, and variable, but when it is on it, it really is

1990: Always loved this, under-rated by Parker

1995: Quite rustic, after taking forever to come round, not a great Palmer

1996: Still tight but great promise, way better than the 1995 and happy to own a case

1999: Wine of the vintage contender

2000: probably moves to game up to a new level

2001/04: superb

2005: Very tight and primary, huge potential

2006: Less intense than 2005 but svelte and showed superbly at the estate in 2015

2007: really showed well when we tried it 18 months ago

By the way:

1. Alta Ego, by comparison with the GV, is a quaffing wine, which represents poor value for money...the notion that is not a second wine, as if it can compete with the GV, is risible

2. Historique is a marketing gimmick
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Nicklasss
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Nicklasss »

The price of Chateau Palmer is a problem lately. I guess it could demand a price just slightly below the Pichons and the Second Growth Saint-Estèphe. Actual prices for that 3rd Growth Margaux is discouraging.

Nic
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Ognik
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Ognik »

@NIC
never will happen....unfortunately
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AlexR
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by AlexR »

The 61 Palmer is legendary.
It is the one wine of Bordeaux I would perhaps want to try more than any other.
You lucky dog you!;-)

This is the wine that was served to Queen Elizabeth when she came to Bordeaux.

As Mahler-Besse are part owners of Palmer, the recorking was probably and excellent idea and well-done.

All the best,
Alex
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sdr
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by sdr »

Thanks for all the great comments. I agree that although the highs are really high, there is a lot of inconsistency so the quality for value is not high.

None of the bottles were purchased on release but I always try to be vigilant about provenance. Nevertheless, you never know until you pull the cork, of course. Maybe I need to repeat the tasting . . .

Stu
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dstgolf
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by dstgolf »

What a great review of Palmer and thanks for sharing your notes Stu and Ian. Your description of Palmer's inconsitency is how I felt about our Summer's Mouton tasting with too many highs and lows. The 2000 Mouton that Ian treated us to was unrecognizable as Pauillac let alone Mouton and certainly not typical....delicious nevertheless. Both have priced themselves beyond what I'm willing to pay and my time horizon is not there to justify purchases of new releases going forward. I'll continue to reap the benefits of my cellar going forward but happy to live vicariously through other peoples notes.
Danny
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Claudius2
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Re: TN: Château Palmer Vertical

Post by Claudius2 »

Comte
Is your brother living in Singapore??
I have been here 8 years now.
Is he in the wine business?
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