Does Sassicaia Reflect What will Happen With Modern Bordeaux

[dstgolf]

For New Years we had our good friends over for dinner and the two wines with the main contrasted two regions nicely... 1998 Sassicaia and 2001 Canon'La-Gaffaliere.Both were beautiful in their own kind of way but contrasted in others. The Sassicaia was a delicious beatutiful full bodied Supertuscan that never disappoints on its own but is pretty unidimensional. It reminds me of a top tier Cali Cab in that this wine is 19 years old and has tasted the same for all these years that we've enjoyed this wine together. No tertiary notes,no evolution in the glass and pretty simple but pleasing palate. Our question is will this be representative of what to expect with modern day Parkerized Bordeaux. I don't think the answer is out yet but the Canon-la Gaffaliere may offer some hope that the modernized versions show hope. This was in the early stages of secondary/tertiary notes and wonderfully balanced. Blackberry/blueberry fruits still present but developing some nice cedar,mushroomy notes that were very pleasing. My buddy commented on how simplistic the Sassicaia was by comparison. Both beautiful wines but the complexity of the ClG humbled the supposed superior rated Sassicaia. Both wines paired well with the veal chop with wild mushroom fricassee and demi but the complexities in the ClG with the mushroomy notes was a fabulous match.

[JimHow]

Marcs brought a 2000 Canon La Gaffeliere to the last DC convention three years ago, it was absolutely stunning, one of my wines of the weekend.

[Nicklasss]

I kinda like a young Sassicaia two years ago (can't remember the vintage) thinking that it was probably tasting what the 80's bordeaux were tasting when young.

Nic

[jckba]

Let’s hope not!

I’ve generally liked Sassicaia the few times I have had it and will occasionally buy onesies and twosies when the price is right but am coming to the conclusion that I like the Guidalberto better as it satisfies me just the same but at 1/5th the price. And after tasting several of my earlier higher end Tuscan purchases, I can also safely say that I prefer both the Solaia and Ornellaia, so if am going to spend $150+ on an aia bottle of Italian wine it will likely be one of those.

[Comte Flaneur]

I have come to the conclusion that Sassicaia, Solaia, and Ornellaia offer terrible value for money. Danny nailed it. They tend to be unidimensional and do not develop more complexity with age, the way Bordeaux wines do. They just evolve, often not in a good way. For example the 1997 Ornellaia has evolved in a way which makes it difficult to drink now. These are wines for the Palm Beach lunch set. Their competition is high end Cali cabs. There is no point in ageing them. Tignanello, which is Sangiovese based, is much more interesting. I cannot recall a Sassicaia that ever wowed me. However, I do remember really enjoying the 1988s from Solaia and Ornellaia drank side by side, quite a while back.

[AKR]

I once worked with a guy who used to speculate in wine.

So when the 97 Tuscan's came out, he loaded up on Sassicaia.

Unfortunately, later, it was damned with some 87 pt score.

He took a bath on his 5 cases or something.

However, happily for us, he decided to serve this at our team year end dinner.

So he had the cases sent to the restaurant, and maybe 30 of us drank Sassicaia like it was the house pour!

It was crazy. Bottles just left on the tables in a private room, help your self style.

Bull market days.

I might have a bottle of their 3rd tier bottling La Difese lying around.

PS: That same guy also sank his 10mm boat in a docking accident. That's a story for another time.

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

PS: That same guy also sank his 10mm boat in a docking accident. That's a story for another time.

"I'm on a boat!"

How's the Le Difese?

[Harry C.]

The thing that jumped out at me was the implication that "parkerized" Bordeaux won't age well. This argument had validity in the 1990s, but the term "parkerized" has been thrown at certain wines since then and the late 80s, 90s wines have aged as excepted, good, bad, etc. The good wines age well. If your taste doesn't go towards that style, so be it. But the good ones age well, including secondary and tertiary characteristics.

[AKR]

How's the Le Difese?

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi ... &p=2397996

[jal]

I had two great experiences, one was with a 1996 Solaia, the other a 1999 Oenellaia, but like Ian said, for the most part, I don't find Ornellaia, Sassicaia and Solaia are good value for money. Even the 2001 Massetto I have had once was good but ridiculously expensive.
I'll stick with La Conseillante, a much better wine at the same price point and sometimes 10-20% cheaper.

[DavidG]

I don’t always drink super-Tuscans, but when I do, I drink Tignanello. I like Sassicaia, Ornellaia, etc. but they don’t wow me enough to buy them.

As to the aging question, I agree with Harry. The good ones, even if "modern," will still age well. And I certainly wouldn’t let one Italian Bordeaux blend set me on edge over the many modern Bordeaux I’ve drunk and have resting in my cellar.

[dstgolf]

Jal & David,

I agree totally. While the Supertuscans are pleasant to drink they are over priced and lack that wow factor. Always dependable and don't require much cellaring but if you do they'll still be the same 20 years later. Yes I hope the great/good modern style Bordeaux are definitely a different kettle of fish but I don't think that anyone knows for sure what will happen to the wines from 2000 onward for the long haul. I must say that many 2000s that I've had have shown very well but the 2000 Lynch though good did lack the wow factor as well. Only time will tell and hopefully the Italians are crafting a Bordeaux blend that is lacking and leaves us wanting especially where our wallets are concerned. I agree with Jal that I'll take a La Conseillante or Certain de May any day over Masseto.

[JimHow]

I drank another 2012 Brunello Il Poggione the other night, it's a damned good wine.
But yes, not quite worth the price.

[GregPas]

That's a funny story, ARK. What does that guy do for a living? I'd love to hear the boat story too sometimes.

[jckba]

I drank another 2012 Brunello Il Poggione the other night, it's a damned good wine.
But yes, not quite worth the price.

Zachys has both the 2011 and 2012 Il Poggione on sale for $49.99/per at present, so I am wondering, at what price do you feel this wine would represent a worthwhile value proposition?

[JimHow]

I mean, that's the price I've paid for both the '11 and '12 in the past year, this sounds like another one of those phony Zachy's sales.
I like Il poggino quite a bit but I think I can get much more complex wines from Bordeaux at that price.
Maybe $10 less makes more sense.
'15 Ridge Geyserville at $36 is a better deal than '12 Il Poggione at $50.

[Racer Chris]

I prefer my Tuscan wines to be primarily Sangiovese.
The Bordeaux blends I've had, while good party wines, fail to persuade me that Cabernet grapes should have a significant presence in Italian wines.

[AKR]

Surprisingly, merlot does very well in the Tuscan/Umbrian/Bolgheri region.

And with a few exceptions like Masseto etc. they are not as expensive as Pomerols.

Pappadoc showed us this at a few tastings where some blind merlot Tuscans would often come in top 3 among a panel of right banks.

However it was probably easier for him to find those wines, at a store like Zachys with a solid Italian spectrum, than folks in other areas. Some of them are not that big production.