So we’re moving locally into a new townhouse in March to cut down on maintenance and since we’ve been empty nesters for a while. Most of this has been a ton of fun but the wine aspect is getting me down. I know, first world problems. But where else could I go to whine?
No more walk-in cellar. There’s room in the basement but I’ve been told that a walk-in would take up too much space, even though it’s unfinished. So a big chunk of the cellar got sent off to auction a few months ago. Picking what stayed and what went was not easy. Mostly over that denial/anger/bargaining/depression thing but still get a little twinge when I’m in the mood for something that’s no longer there.
This past week it was time to move the wine. Took a couple of days to put together and pack boxes I’d ordered from HDH. Had local movers lug them upstairs and over to the basement of our new place about 6 miles away. At least it was a short, direct move in cool temps.
Yesterday two big Le Cache cabinets arrived. Took 4 guys 2 hours to get them in the basement. A walk-out or it never would have happened. It was fun watching them. They clearly knew their stuff. The cabinets are beautiful, but relegated to the unfinished basement.
I spent a good chunk of today loading the cabinets. Got about 1/3 done. My wife thinks I’m having fun spending time with each of the bottles. But with a stiff neck and back and a bad hip, I just wish it were over. And the cabinets are making me long for the walk-in again. No room for case storage. Limited top shelf room for Champagne, mags and other weird sizes that won’t fit in the racks. And unlike the walk-in, which had enough excess capacity to leave the bottom rows empty, I’ll be on my geriatric hands and knees getting bottles in and out of the lower rows.
So the wine's in the townhouse and I’m back home waiting for my next dose of ibuprofen. Looks like it’ll be a Scotch night. Feeling crummy and even guilty about feeling crummy. Just got home from watching Darkest Hour (great movie) and thinking what a wimp I am for whining. I should have been more Churchillian in fighting for a walk-in cellar.
Downsizing
Re: Downsizing
I've been spending time shrinking our storage units of clutter too. Spent a couple hours today doing that and my back is killing me too. Dropped off maybe 300 CD's at our local Goodwill. How silly to have saved those, thinking they were useful or had value. In a world of Pandora, GooglePlay, iTunes, AmazonMusic I can pretty much rather casually call up any album I can ever think of....
Still its a lot better to do the cellar pruning oneself, than let the next generation do it. Having been in that situation (at least regarding parental 'stuff') they won't have the emotional connection to any of the chattels, and may not make choices as wise as you.
Still its a lot better to do the cellar pruning oneself, than let the next generation do it. Having been in that situation (at least regarding parental 'stuff') they won't have the emotional connection to any of the chattels, and may not make choices as wise as you.
Re: Downsizing
As hard as it was to downsize the cellar, you’re absolutely right Arv about it being best for me to do it rather than leave it for the next generation.
Outside of the wine, I’ve been a happy and enthusiastic participant in jettisoning big chunks of our 30 years worth of accumulated stuff. And spending time with Peggy picking colors, appliances, fixtures, finishes and furniture for the new place has been a blast.
Outside of the wine, I’ve been a happy and enthusiastic participant in jettisoning big chunks of our 30 years worth of accumulated stuff. And spending time with Peggy picking colors, appliances, fixtures, finishes and furniture for the new place has been a blast.
Re: Downsizing
In each of our own pernicious little ways, both the SO and I are hoarders, so even the normal pruning needed to maintain a steady state of chaos causes tension.
Hard to believe, but my brother is the total opposite. He has almost no 'stuff'. Giant 5000 ft house, with spartan furniture, maybe a couple pieces of art. Even his kid gets his toys edited and curated, so only a small number of things for the munchkin too.
My personal belief is that the biggest culprit for cellar bloat is buying cases, rather than 1 or 2 bottles. Maybe in some rare circumstances that might be only way to acquire wines (I remember the NH liquor stores would only order off their catalog by the case, and in a pre internet/shipping world, that might have been the only way to get non supermarket style wines)
Hard to believe, but my brother is the total opposite. He has almost no 'stuff'. Giant 5000 ft house, with spartan furniture, maybe a couple pieces of art. Even his kid gets his toys edited and curated, so only a small number of things for the munchkin too.
My personal belief is that the biggest culprit for cellar bloat is buying cases, rather than 1 or 2 bottles. Maybe in some rare circumstances that might be only way to acquire wines (I remember the NH liquor stores would only order off their catalog by the case, and in a pre internet/shipping world, that might have been the only way to get non supermarket style wines)
Re: Downsizing
I feel for you, David. Messing with wine can be a real pain.
This January was easier than usual for me--I only had to put away 11 cases. I dread the problems we'll have if and when we move to the west coast. But we only consider houses in which we can have a dedicated wine room. I do not intend to sell anything as my kids will be happy to have the remainder of our cellar when Lucie and I adjourn to That Great Tasting Room in the Sky.
Was the tax liability for the gain on the wine about the same in 2017 as it would have been in 2018?
Arv, my latest case fiasco was 2010 Haut-Bergey. We liked the 2005 and drank a lot of it and the 2010 was cheap so I bought a case six years ago. I cracked the case last week. Lucie, a Graves lover, hates the H-B. I guess I'll just let the other 11 bottles rest for five years in the hope that the wine will come around.
This January was easier than usual for me--I only had to put away 11 cases. I dread the problems we'll have if and when we move to the west coast. But we only consider houses in which we can have a dedicated wine room. I do not intend to sell anything as my kids will be happy to have the remainder of our cellar when Lucie and I adjourn to That Great Tasting Room in the Sky.
Was the tax liability for the gain on the wine about the same in 2017 as it would have been in 2018?
Arv, my latest case fiasco was 2010 Haut-Bergey. We liked the 2005 and drank a lot of it and the 2010 was cheap so I bought a case six years ago. I cracked the case last week. Lucie, a Graves lover, hates the H-B. I guess I'll just let the other 11 bottles rest for five years in the hope that the wine will come around.
Last edited by stefan on Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Downsizing
I feel your pain David...
‘I’ve been told...’...by whom? ‘She who must be obeyed?’
‘I’ve been told...’...by whom? ‘She who must be obeyed?’
Last edited by Comte Flaneur on Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Downsizing
Stefan, I haven’t looked but I don’t think the new tax law changed long-term capital gains rates.
Ian, who else?
Ian, who else?
Re: Downsizing
David, I know the feeling of wining down. My cellar is smaller than most so I would replace that bottles that were imbibed, thus keeping a constant number. That stopped a two years ago when my cardiologist "advised" me to cut back drinking, so the restocking stopped. I'm watching my cellar shrink and feeling somehow betrayed by the Fates. The cellar's shrinking, the cardiologist is none the happier and I'm one grumpy old man.
Bill
Bill
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JimHow
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Re: Downsizing
I’m not far behind you Bill, my inventory is as low as it’s been in 15 years.
The old ticker ain’t what it used to be.
I also have been suffering from this really depressing feeling that, like my body, the US government is crumbling irreversibly.
The old ticker ain’t what it used to be.
I also have been suffering from this really depressing feeling that, like my body, the US government is crumbling irreversibly.
Re: Downsizing
My consumption has slowed considerably. More than 6-8 oz and it’s nap time for me. With my family history of coronary disease I’m a bit surprised that the ticker and lipid levels are behaving. It’s my spine and discs that seem to be crumbling irreversibly. Screwing together 4 of the 7 vertebrae in my neck seems to be helping neurologically but neck mobility is really limiting.
On a more positive note, I now have about 2/3 of the wine loaded into the cabinets. Krug and Taittinger bottles are too frickin big for the racks but I used some topological prestidigitation to shoehorn them all in on top in what I hope is a stable pyramid. Krug mags take up almost as much space as my 3L of 1988 Beaucastel. I may bring it to DC. That’ll free up a bunch of room on top, and I can’t think of a group more qualified to dispose of it.
On a more positive note, I now have about 2/3 of the wine loaded into the cabinets. Krug and Taittinger bottles are too frickin big for the racks but I used some topological prestidigitation to shoehorn them all in on top in what I hope is a stable pyramid. Krug mags take up almost as much space as my 3L of 1988 Beaucastel. I may bring it to DC. That’ll free up a bunch of room on top, and I can’t think of a group more qualified to dispose of it.
Re: Downsizing
As my age, I should be slowing down my wine buying, but it's kind of in my blood.
And when I have a wine dinner at the house to use up 6 or 8 bottles, my guest bring me gifts of... wine.
My tax advisor said my wife and I should sell our large place and downsize.
From a fiscal standpoint, our children would have much to gain.
But, dammit, we spent a quarter of a century fixing up the place just the way we like it.
So, the tax man can take my money. I'll live with that.
Alex R.
And when I have a wine dinner at the house to use up 6 or 8 bottles, my guest bring me gifts of... wine.
My tax advisor said my wife and I should sell our large place and downsize.
From a fiscal standpoint, our children would have much to gain.
But, dammit, we spent a quarter of a century fixing up the place just the way we like it.
So, the tax man can take my money. I'll live with that.
Alex R.
Re: Downsizing
I hear you Alex. I’ve had a love of wine for 40 years, and for the last 30 years or so have been fortunate to be able to indulge my passion. Wine buying is in my blood too.
Cutting off the buying wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t as hard as selling off part of the cellar. I’d rather have kept the wine than the money but knew we would never drink it. Unlike Stefan's children, my daughter's interest in wine is minor. So reason finally conquered passion and off the stuff went.
Are inheritance taxes on real estate higher than those on stocks, bonds or cash in France? Here it’s just part of the estate so no particular advantage to passing on investments vs. the house. We’re still in love with the location of our current house and will miss the views. Our decision to move was based mostly on anticipation of "aging in place" as the usual maladies start to show up. The new place is almost as large as the old and I'm sure we’ll end up spending more than we make on the sale of our current house when all is said and done. But there is much less maintenance and the layout is perfect, should the need arise, to put in an elevator without messing up the floor plan.
Cutting off the buying wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t as hard as selling off part of the cellar. I’d rather have kept the wine than the money but knew we would never drink it. Unlike Stefan's children, my daughter's interest in wine is minor. So reason finally conquered passion and off the stuff went.
Are inheritance taxes on real estate higher than those on stocks, bonds or cash in France? Here it’s just part of the estate so no particular advantage to passing on investments vs. the house. We’re still in love with the location of our current house and will miss the views. Our decision to move was based mostly on anticipation of "aging in place" as the usual maladies start to show up. The new place is almost as large as the old and I'm sure we’ll end up spending more than we make on the sale of our current house when all is said and done. But there is much less maintenance and the layout is perfect, should the need arise, to put in an elevator without messing up the floor plan.
Re: Downsizing
David,
The difference between you and me may be that very little of my wine (about 1,200 bottles) is in case lots because I love variety.
It would thus be very difficult for my heirs to sell the stuff off.
Selling the whole collection would probably mean a poor deal…
My wife loves wine, but doesn’t obsess about it like I do.
Neither of my children is interested.
Taxes of all kinds are much higher in France than in the US. Which accounts for the much better social protection.
Inheritance tax in my bracket would be 30%.
All the best,
Alex
The difference between you and me may be that very little of my wine (about 1,200 bottles) is in case lots because I love variety.
It would thus be very difficult for my heirs to sell the stuff off.
Selling the whole collection would probably mean a poor deal…
My wife loves wine, but doesn’t obsess about it like I do.
Neither of my children is interested.
Taxes of all kinds are much higher in France than in the US. Which accounts for the much better social protection.
Inheritance tax in my bracket would be 30%.
All the best,
Alex
Re: Downsizing
Hi Alex - Speaking of inheritance taxes and more specifically how they are levied on family owned estates across France, isn’t the tax rate of 45% applied on parcels of land worth more than 100,000 EUR such that families are frequently faced with the tough decisions of seeking loans or getting investors involved or even selling off the Estate to cover such taxes ... to me, this sounds seriously broken if I am understanding it correctly.
Re: Downsizing
After TCJA very few Americans are going to be subject to death duties, at least at the Federal level.
There are still states which impose them, some like Washington St. have a low threshold (2mm) for exemption.
There are still states which impose them, some like Washington St. have a low threshold (2mm) for exemption.
Re: Downsizing
Alex, our cellars are (were) more similar than you think. I purchased most of my wines in lots of 2-6 bottles. And for the same reason you cite: variety. I currently have a total of only 1 full case. Care to guess what it is?
Before my big sell-off I had about 1200 bottles. It’s now a bit more than half that. My guess is that our cellars differ most in geographic distribution. While France (and Bordeaux in particular) is number 1, I suspect I may be heavier in US and German wines than you are.
As to taxes, my understanding is similar to jc's, in that French inheritance taxes can cause problems for real estate owners. Here in the US, the threshold for estate taxes is extremely high, now $11.2 million per couple.
I am disappointed that our new tax law manages to create a further redistribution of wealth to corporations and the wealthiest while simultaneously exploding our deficit. Bush I was right when he called this voodoo economics, and it has been proven not to work. But here we are. If we did manage to collect more in taxes here in the US, the revenue would be more likely to fund the military than strengthen the social safety net or improve our infrastructure. Too many big donors to answer to.
Before my big sell-off I had about 1200 bottles. It’s now a bit more than half that. My guess is that our cellars differ most in geographic distribution. While France (and Bordeaux in particular) is number 1, I suspect I may be heavier in US and German wines than you are.
As to taxes, my understanding is similar to jc's, in that French inheritance taxes can cause problems for real estate owners. Here in the US, the threshold for estate taxes is extremely high, now $11.2 million per couple.
I am disappointed that our new tax law manages to create a further redistribution of wealth to corporations and the wealthiest while simultaneously exploding our deficit. Bush I was right when he called this voodoo economics, and it has been proven not to work. But here we are. If we did manage to collect more in taxes here in the US, the revenue would be more likely to fund the military than strengthen the social safety net or improve our infrastructure. Too many big donors to answer to.
Re: Downsizing
Yes, inheritance taxes are a scourge to the French wine industry.
Of course, there are ways to get around it but, in the last analysis, if family members want their share in cash rather than owning part of an estate, there is little that can be done, and the property must be sold.
Where this really hurts is Burgundy, where things are so split up… Acquisitions of domaines as "investment vehicles" are mundane in Bordeaux, but have only just hit Burgundy (Clos de Lamabrays, Clos de Tart, Domaine Bonneau de Matray), and there is much fear and grumbling.
David,
Having about 600 bottles makes a lot of sense…
As for cellar distribution, I don’t use Cellartracker so cannot know exactly. Surprise, surprise, most of my wine is from Bordeaux, but I have quite a bit of Burgundy and Rhone as well. Some Spanish and Italian, but very few New World wines. One bottle of German…
Alex
Of course, there are ways to get around it but, in the last analysis, if family members want their share in cash rather than owning part of an estate, there is little that can be done, and the property must be sold.
Where this really hurts is Burgundy, where things are so split up… Acquisitions of domaines as "investment vehicles" are mundane in Bordeaux, but have only just hit Burgundy (Clos de Lamabrays, Clos de Tart, Domaine Bonneau de Matray), and there is much fear and grumbling.
David,
Having about 600 bottles makes a lot of sense…
As for cellar distribution, I don’t use Cellartracker so cannot know exactly. Surprise, surprise, most of my wine is from Bordeaux, but I have quite a bit of Burgundy and Rhone as well. Some Spanish and Italian, but very few New World wines. One bottle of German…
Alex
Re: Downsizing
David, been there done that.
We moved from a colonial house with a wine cellar (1,000 plus bottles at one point) to a small condo. I now have a big wine fridge with 167 bottles capacity and a smaller one with 56 bottles, plus some wines in the regular fridge, others in a cabinet getting ready to drink and 4 wooden cases (kids birth years wines) stored at a friend's cellar.
It is not fun and I understand how you feel, but downsizing is liberating.
I miss grilling a lot more than my wine cellar...
We moved from a colonial house with a wine cellar (1,000 plus bottles at one point) to a small condo. I now have a big wine fridge with 167 bottles capacity and a smaller one with 56 bottles, plus some wines in the regular fridge, others in a cabinet getting ready to drink and 4 wooden cases (kids birth years wines) stored at a friend's cellar.
It is not fun and I understand how you feel, but downsizing is liberating.
I miss grilling a lot more than my wine cellar...
Best
Jacques
Jacques
Re: Downsizing
David,
Downsizing is a big step without a question and one that we`ve considered with only my son left at home. Our wine cellar is a minor concern even though I`m not sure what we`d do with it if we decided to pull the trigger. The house is too big but I still enjoy gardening and don`t mind the yard work even though in the spring clean up and planting can be daunting. The major stumbling block is location. We love where we live across the road from the Ottawa river where I can dunk the canoe, ride/walk/ ski along the bike path winter/summer and only 10-15 minutes from work and the golf course. What more can I ask for? I'm about 2 yrs from retirement I figure and our only concern is leaving the house for the winter to go south but we look after several of our neighbors homes while they are away and hopefully we can get someone to do the same when it's our time. We'll cross that downsizing bridge sometime in the future but it's not a priority for us at the moment.
Good luck in your new place and keep well.
PS We're going to be in Bradenton the week of March 3rd and hopefully hooking up with Jacques. Maybe we can all get together to have a glass or two over dinner somewhere wine friendly?
Downsizing is a big step without a question and one that we`ve considered with only my son left at home. Our wine cellar is a minor concern even though I`m not sure what we`d do with it if we decided to pull the trigger. The house is too big but I still enjoy gardening and don`t mind the yard work even though in the spring clean up and planting can be daunting. The major stumbling block is location. We love where we live across the road from the Ottawa river where I can dunk the canoe, ride/walk/ ski along the bike path winter/summer and only 10-15 minutes from work and the golf course. What more can I ask for? I'm about 2 yrs from retirement I figure and our only concern is leaving the house for the winter to go south but we look after several of our neighbors homes while they are away and hopefully we can get someone to do the same when it's our time. We'll cross that downsizing bridge sometime in the future but it's not a priority for us at the moment.
Good luck in your new place and keep well.
PS We're going to be in Bradenton the week of March 3rd and hopefully hooking up with Jacques. Maybe we can all get together to have a glass or two over dinner somewhere wine friendly?
Danny
Re: Downsizing
Yeah!!!!!dstgolf wrote:
PS We're going to be in Bradenton the week of March 3rd and hopefully hooking up with Jacques. Maybe we can all get together to have a glass or two over dinner somewhere wine friendly?
Best
Jacques
Jacques
Re: Downsizing
We’ll be back home by March 3...
Danny we're also thinking retirement is a few years away but the time seemed right to find a place we can stay into our dotage. Before we needed to do so in a hurry. We decided to stay local as our base. Close to the social, cultural and healthcare benefits of 2 major cities. And close to our daughter. Winter sucks and while still working our plan is to escape in January or February each year. Fortunately I can do that at Hopkins. Rent a condo for a month here this year and a month there next year to explore several locations a little more in depth and see if we might like to buy a winter place to return to regularly. Our trip to Sarasota next month is our first pass at that.
Danny we're also thinking retirement is a few years away but the time seemed right to find a place we can stay into our dotage. Before we needed to do so in a hurry. We decided to stay local as our base. Close to the social, cultural and healthcare benefits of 2 major cities. And close to our daughter. Winter sucks and while still working our plan is to escape in January or February each year. Fortunately I can do that at Hopkins. Rent a condo for a month here this year and a month there next year to explore several locations a little more in depth and see if we might like to buy a winter place to return to regularly. Our trip to Sarasota next month is our first pass at that.
Re: Downsizing
Jacques, now that I’ve got the wine loaded into the cabinets I’m feeling a lot better about the whole situation.
Loss of grilling privileges is my greatest fear of condos. I could probably adjust to schlepping down to a community grill if necessary. Or try one of those indoor grilling gadgets or a gas stove top attachment. Can’t imagine it’d be the same, but better than no grilling at all.
Loss of grilling privileges is my greatest fear of condos. I could probably adjust to schlepping down to a community grill if necessary. Or try one of those indoor grilling gadgets or a gas stove top attachment. Can’t imagine it’d be the same, but better than no grilling at all.
Re: Downsizing
Lucie and I are thinking about buying a second place close to one of our children. But it MUST have a dedicated wine room, which of course will give me an excuse to buy more wine. Eventually, when we adjourn to That Great Tasting Room in the Sky, each of our children can inherit an entire collection, or split, as they choose.
I do not contemplate downsizing.
I do not contemplate downsizing.
Re: Downsizing
stefan, as ever, is everyone's BWE hero!
Re: Downsizing
I ask the BD to remove that thread, too depressing...
With my 140 bottles, I feel like you can downsize more
.
Nic
With my 140 bottles, I feel like you can downsize more
.Nic
Re: Downsizing
BWE18...Nicklasss wrote:I feel like you can downsize more
Nic
Re: Downsizing
Thanks for starting this David. I have spent significant time pondering my wine future due to this thread. At nearly 58 with 1300 bottles, in good health and a pair of children that would love some wine; just not 650 bottles a piece.... I still buy wine and must come to grips with the thought of seriously limiting my future purchases. Or maybe not!
Enjoy the weekend all.
Enjoy the weekend all.
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JimHow
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Re: Downsizing
I'm about your age, RP, at its peak my cellar was about 1300, it is now about half that.
What are your plans on purchasing 2015-2016?
What are your plans on purchasing 2015-2016?
Re: Downsizing
I guess you guys don't drink wine every day. I know that Jim does not. I am too old to go a day with no wine. I abstain only if no good wine is at hand or the dinner I have does not call for wine or I am sick.
Tonight I opened a 2010 Nielon Chassagne Clos de la Maltroie to go with a delicious crab gratin that Lucie prepared. Unfortunately, Lucie will not have any wine because she had a wisdom tooth extracted yesterday. She is not taking antibiotics or pain killers, but she decided to wait another day or two just to be safe.
Tonight I opened a 2010 Nielon Chassagne Clos de la Maltroie to go with a delicious crab gratin that Lucie prepared. Unfortunately, Lucie will not have any wine because she had a wisdom tooth extracted yesterday. She is not taking antibiotics or pain killers, but she decided to wait another day or two just to be safe.
Re: Downsizing
I plan to skip 2015 and purchase only three mixed cases of 2016's. While I haven't tasted any 2015's, my reading has left me with the opinion that I own enough of this vintage style in the '05's and '10's that I own. Of course, my fondness for Domaine de Chevalier will most likely get me to buy 6 or so of the '15.
Re: Downsizing
RPCV, you should buy a few 2015. I think your plan for a few bottles of Domaine de Chevalier is a very good one. A few Margaux too if you can.
And I can tell you that 2015 is very different than 2005 or 2010, and these last two are better/greater vintages. The producers were talking about kind of a mix of 2005- 2009 to represents 2015. Personnally, I would say more a mix of 2000 and 2009.
Nic
And I can tell you that 2015 is very different than 2005 or 2010, and these last two are better/greater vintages. The producers were talking about kind of a mix of 2005- 2009 to represents 2015. Personnally, I would say more a mix of 2000 and 2009.
Nic
Re: Downsizing
I bought no 2015s and have no plans to, though the positive UGC reports have been tempting!RPCV wrote:I plan to skip 2015 and purchase only three mixed cases of 2016's. While I haven't tasted any 2015's, my reading has left me with the opinion that I own enough of this vintage style in the '05's and '10's that I own. Of course, my fondness for Domaine de Chevalier will most likely get me to buy 6 or so of the '15.
Aside from not needing more wine, like you RPCV I have enough of the ripe styled vintages. I broke my self-imposed buying freeze last year to purchase two mixed cases of 2016 futures. Lord knows if I’ll be around long enough to enjoy them at peak. They’re the last young Bordeaux I’ll buy. Unlike Stefan, we open only a bottle or two a week.
So Jim, how did you reduce your cellar size? Drank more? Bought less? Was it a conscious effort or difficult or did it just happen naturally?
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JimHow
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Re: Downsizing
I've just been buying a lot less in recent years David.
I'm planning on 2014/2015/2016 being my last vintages of any major quantity.
I've also cut way back in my consumption, although I'll still splurge for family events, holidays, BWE, etc.
If I could dictate the future I'd like to have about 20 years of retirement and 1,000 bottles for those 20 years.
I'm planning on 2014/2015/2016 being my last vintages of any major quantity.
I've also cut way back in my consumption, although I'll still splurge for family events, holidays, BWE, etc.
If I could dictate the future I'd like to have about 20 years of retirement and 1,000 bottles for those 20 years.
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Racer Chris
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Re: Downsizing
I haven't been at this for very long so at 60 years old I'm on the upswing with regard to cellar quantity, pausing at 500 bottles for the time being, until I can create more storage space.
I like to drink wine every day so the majority of my bottles are in the $15-25 price range, and I really have nothing older than 2008.
Right now I'm mostly buying select 2010, 2012 and 2014 off the shelf, based on researching cellartracker data for the top values which are locally available. I'll do the same with 2015s when they hit the stores - especially from Margaux chateaux.
As I go thru daily drinkers and replace them with classified growths the value of my cellar is steadily rising, but pretty soon I'll have to restock on budget wine selections to keep from dipping into the good stuff too soon.
I like to drink wine every day so the majority of my bottles are in the $15-25 price range, and I really have nothing older than 2008.
Right now I'm mostly buying select 2010, 2012 and 2014 off the shelf, based on researching cellartracker data for the top values which are locally available. I'll do the same with 2015s when they hit the stores - especially from Margaux chateaux.
As I go thru daily drinkers and replace them with classified growths the value of my cellar is steadily rising, but pretty soon I'll have to restock on budget wine selections to keep from dipping into the good stuff too soon.
Re: Downsizing
I told Lucie that if we cut back to one bottle of wine a week we could drink only first and super second growth Bordeaux and Grand Cru Burgundy and Winston Churchill. She said, "No way. I want appropriate wine with appropriate meals and am happy with what we drink."
What can I do? I am boxed in.
(To be honest, after 150 or so years of marriage I knew what she would say and would not have asked if I thought she might answer differently.)
What can I do? I am boxed in.
(To be honest, after 150 or so years of marriage I knew what she would say and would not have asked if I thought she might answer differently.)
Re: Downsizing
Those numbers sound about right to me Jim. We’ll see what our consumption does over the next year or two. It’s less than a few years ago. I can always start buying again as the cellar dwindles or if our consumption increases. Backfilling on years like 2014 shouldn’t be too expensive, especially if done before they hit the 10 year mark when decent vintages of Bordeaux start to appreciate. Less provenance risk on youngish bottles too. As I get older I wouldn’t be surprised to see a palate shift to younger or more concentrated wines as the sense of smell and taste decline.
Stefan we’ve accumulated too many special occasion bottles and are now starting to approach any day as worthy of one. It’s not like we’re drinking Winston Churchill every day, but at our rate we’re not drinking anything every day. If wine were a daily occurrence I think we would follow your approach.
Chris, you’re at a point where a lot depends on how much age you like on your wines. If like Jim you prefer most Bordeaux at age 8-20, you’re sitting pretty. If you find that they don’t really start singing to you until they pass 20 or 25, the auction markets might be for you.
Stefan we’ve accumulated too many special occasion bottles and are now starting to approach any day as worthy of one. It’s not like we’re drinking Winston Churchill every day, but at our rate we’re not drinking anything every day. If wine were a daily occurrence I think we would follow your approach.
Chris, you’re at a point where a lot depends on how much age you like on your wines. If like Jim you prefer most Bordeaux at age 8-20, you’re sitting pretty. If you find that they don’t really start singing to you until they pass 20 or 25, the auction markets might be for you.
Re: Downsizing
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As I get older I wouldn’t be surprised to see a palate shift to younger or more concentrated wines as the sense of smell and taste decline.
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Yes, I have experienced a decline, David, and have to work harder to get the nuances of old wine. These days I drink a lot of young Pinot Noir. Tonight Lucie and I will drink a 2015 (sic) St Innocent Zenith Special Selection. A while back I would not have considered opening an SI SS so young. I am still not very tolerant of very young Bordeaux, though. I dislike brushing my teeth and using my Indian tongue cleaner between glasses.
As I get older I wouldn’t be surprised to see a palate shift to younger or more concentrated wines as the sense of smell and taste decline.
>>
Yes, I have experienced a decline, David, and have to work harder to get the nuances of old wine. These days I drink a lot of young Pinot Noir. Tonight Lucie and I will drink a 2015 (sic) St Innocent Zenith Special Selection. A while back I would not have considered opening an SI SS so young. I am still not very tolerant of very young Bordeaux, though. I dislike brushing my teeth and using my Indian tongue cleaner between glasses.
Re: Downsizing
I would not be at all disappointed in shifting to younger OR or CA Pinot over time. I've liked StInnocent and Patricia Green. And Ojai Vyd for a less expensive option. Those are wines I wouldnt have to cellar long.
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Re: Downsizing
I'm not looking at the auction markets at this point, so at home I'm resigned to drinking whatever I bought at retail, with as much age as my patience allows.DavidG wrote: Chris, you’re at a point where a lot depends on how much age you like on your wines. If like Jim you prefer most Bordeaux at age 8-20, you’re sitting pretty. If you find that they don’t really start singing to you until they pass 20 or 25, the auction markets might be for you.
The majority will go between 8-20 years I'm sure, but I had a taste of some great '80s Bordeaux only a few years ago. Based on that experience I definitely intend to keep some special bottles for closer to 30 years, assuming I'm still enjoying wine when I hit 80.
Re: Downsizing
David,
I think you've said something very important here:
"Stefan we’ve accumulated too many special occasion bottles and are now starting to approach any day as worthy of one".
Yes. Carpe diem!
We have people over for dinner fairly often, but have more "occasion" bottles than any of them could possibly consume.
(not counting the ones they bring as gifts!).
So, increasingly, on a weekday evening, I'll may open up an aged great growth wine to share "just" with the wife.
No regrets there. On the contrary.
All the best,
Alex R.
I think you've said something very important here:
"Stefan we’ve accumulated too many special occasion bottles and are now starting to approach any day as worthy of one".
Yes. Carpe diem!
We have people over for dinner fairly often, but have more "occasion" bottles than any of them could possibly consume.
(not counting the ones they bring as gifts!).
So, increasingly, on a weekday evening, I'll may open up an aged great growth wine to share "just" with the wife.
No regrets there. On the contrary
.All the best,
Alex R.
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