Israeli food and wine scene (formerly Whining, etc...)

[DavidG]

Seeing as this thread has (THANKFULLY) morphed into a discussion of Israeli restaurants, food and wine critics, etc. I am going to edit the title...

Wherein I whine about all the whining on this board...

I can't say that I disagree with much of what's been posted about the Squires board or the scandal surrounding industry sponsorship of some of Parker's reviewers, but I am amazed at how persistent and repetitive the complaints are. You've spoken your minds on the principles involved. Do any of you posting over here actually think you are going to change Parker's mind? Or Squires'? Or the world's? Cancel your subscription to WA and eRobertParker if you don't trust him. Or not, if you still value his reviews.

But the constant whining is just sucking the life out of this board. There are fewer and fewer posts on wines. Most of them right now are duplicates of the Pichon Lalande tasting put on by Rick in Chicago.

It's easy to say "don't open the post if you don't like it" but seeing them at the top of the board all the time still has a depressing effect, and well, I guess I'm just human, so once or twice a week I find myself checking them, and not even feeling like reading about wine afterwards.

And then there's Jim nagging us to post more about wines and threatening not to participate in BWE '10 if we don't behave. Oh yeah, that really gets my posting juices flowing.

Despite all that, and having gotten that all off my chest, rather than continuing to contribute to the whining around here, I am going to do my best to change the tone around here by posting a few notes.

[AlainB.]

I completly missed the Squires board dispute as I don't go there anymore. But I've read Jim's posts here and found the whole story pretty sad.. and boring!
As long as Parker has any influence on the world of wine - and for sure he still has a huge one - there will be a significant amount of people who, for a reason or another, want to be seen sitting "at the right of the Father".. Therefore and whatever happens, the Squires board will continue to drain audience.

Personnally I've made my choice!

[JimHow]

Blah blah blah...

I post more than anyone, David, I participate more than anyone, I spend much more time, money, effort than anyone on BWE, I spend a large percentage of my limited vacation/recreation budget on BWE, both before and after the ever-so-earth-shattering Squires "controversy".

Don't blame the Squires controversy for "sucking the life" out of BWE.

That's nonsense.

I see BWEers posting on cellartracker but not taking five seconds to cross-post here. Shame on anyone doing that. That was happening long before the Squires controversy, David, so don't blame those of us who have decided to forcefully state our positions on that issue for any sort of decline in participation.

The thing that I'm really finding funny at this point is that the only ones who are whining are the ones who are complaining about those of us who criticized Squires/Parker. You guys are the ones perpetuating this, not us. There haven't been any new "attacks" on Squires/Parker here on BWE in over a week now. This would be old news, but for those of you who keep raising their displeasure over the two (now three) threads on the subject (out of over 500 threads here on BWE) that were posted now three weeks ago, following the WSJ story.

If people here on BWE want to continue to have a viable site, if they want to continue to have people like me (and you and a few others) organizing and attending conventions and offlines, then everyone needs to pitch in on the success of the site. And when something like the "Parker/Squires controvery" happens, they need to deal with it, and not get all self-important and uptight and and treat it like the world is coming to an end. I can mock Dictator Squires AND post notes on 2006 Bordeaux at the same time, it's really not that hard. Really. Trust me. Deal with it.

Meantime, I support 100% those who have criticized what the phonies over at Squires.com have done. And I'll never preach to any BWEer about what he or she should or shouldn't post on this site.

[DavidG]

You know, you're right, most of the recent posts have been complaining about the complaining. I just got tired of looking at the header, but I haven't actually read the individual posts in it lately, so I stand corrected. I'll refrain from complaining further and this thread will tail off into the sunset as well...

Just looking at my own TNs on CT and posting a bunch of them has snapped me out of my funk. It really is easy! A couple clicks and DONE!

[Comte Flaneur]

It's only a wine board...let's not get too serious here...and David I am sure your sentiments are genuine and heartfelt...but there is an issue here as Jacques eloquently articulated in his last post...Squires's antics are not news, Parker's antics are...its that simple tho' some obviously just don't geddit...I must admit though I got really ticked off by the sanctimonious posturing from some part-time posters from some vassal states/RMP wannabees, who have no loyalty to this board...it just does not ring true.

[DavidG]

I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't post about how they feel. I actually agree with many of the sentiments expressed. I used to support Parker in any way possible, buying every book he wrote and subscribing to both the print edition of the WA and eRP. No more. I'll probably keep eRP for the extensive and useful (IMO) notes database.

But I'm tired of reading about the mess, feel I know all I need to know about it, am ready to move on, and am trying to drag others on down the highway with me. Some aren't ready to move on, and that's OK. It's not World Peace, abortion, gay marriage, or how to fix the economy or the healthcare system (and geeze, I don't really want to go there...). At this point, it's getting to the Octomom or the Jon and Kate level for me, and will soon become a background buzz which is easy to ignore.

[stefan]

First it was criticism of RP and The Square. Then it's criticism of those who criticize RP & The Square. Now we have (from Jim) criticism of those who criticize those who criticize RP & The Square. Who wants to be the first to criticize those who criticize those who criticize those who criticize RP & The Square?

stefan, just trying to keep track of who is whining about whom

[DavidG]

Stefan, I think it may be you, in your own subtle and delicate way (for a monster)...

[Jay Winton]

First it was criticism of RP and The Square. Then it's criticism of those who criticize RP & The Square. Now we have (from Jim) criticism of those who criticize those who criticize RP & The Square. Who wants to be the first to criticize those who criticize those who criticize those who criticize RP & The Square?

stefan, just trying to keep track of who is whining about whom

I criticize this post

mr vino the critical and criticizer of the entire wine universe
also known to winge and whine when appropriate

[DavidG]

I'm as guilty as the next. At least we can laugh at oursevles... Thanks stefan and Jay.

[stefan]

Not to change the subject, but tonight Lucie and I go to a Burgundy tasting in Tel Aviv. There will be village wines from Dujac & Lafarge, a Mugnier and Lafarge 1er Cru, Grand Crus from Jadot, Arlaud, Lamarche and Fevre. I hope the wine does not cause me to whine.

stefan, the subtle monster

[Houndsong]

We are well beyond the jerk. Are there handles for subsequent derivatives?

[jal]

Not to change the subject, but tonight Lucie and I go to a Burgundy tasting in Tel Aviv. There will be village wines from Dujac & Lafarge, a Mugnier and Lafarge 1er Cru, Grand Crus from Jadot, Arlaud, Lamarche and Fevre. I hope the wine does not cause me to whine.

Nice! Where's the tasting?

[stefan]

The wine store at 93 Hahashmonaim, Jacques. I am embarrassed to admit that, after all the time I have spent here, my Hebrew is so bad that I cannot tell what is the name of the store even though I know I am staring at it. Our joint friend (with whom we'll dine Sunday at Kimmel) knows the place well. He is skipping this tasting but goes there tomorrow to taste Ytir wines. We cannot make that one as we are headed for the Dead Sea.

BTW: We ate at Moul Yam the other night. It was our first time there as they allowed smoking before the new law. It was very, very good even if not at the level of Veritas in our home town.

stefan

[jal]

Oh, "The Wine Route" or Derekh Hayayin. I know the store well and it's around the corner from my high school.

Jill and I went to Moul Yam last year for my birthday, Stefan. I liked it a lot, but I think only the desserts are world class, everything else is very good but still a notch below the best of what Europe or the US restaurants can do.

I also like Kimmel, have to remember to go there in July, I haven't been in a while

Enjoy the tasting.

[stefan]

We just got back. It was an excellent tasting. Lucie & I want the a wine cellar like Derekh Hayayin has, but I don't think it is practical to build one like that in College Station.

I was too stuffed to order dessert at Moul Yam, Jacques, but Lucie ordered a plate of chocolates and I tasted a couple of them. They were excellent.

stefan

[jal]

I went on their website and checked out the tasting, Stefan. It looked like a lot of nice wines. Did you buy any? They were offering apparently a 50NIS discount on purchases.

Is that the cellar you get to by taking the elevator down?

[SteveH]

I've heard that Rogov, the big macher Israeli food and wine critic, is a heavy smoker. If so, that would be bizarre.

[stefan]

Right, Jacques. Great cellar, yes?

The tasting was very nice. I bought a couple of them to drink before we return home. The entry fee included 50 NIS credit and, in addition, the wines were heavily discounted from retail. That made them a great buy for the locals. 'Course they are expensive relative to my other recent purchases.

Steve, Rogov is indeed a heavy smoker. Fortunately, the anti smoking law here is very tough. I saw yesterday for the first time since its implementation someone try to smoke in a restaurant. Someone complained and the guy was convinced by a guard with a carbine to extinguish*.

stefan
* In my dream, but he did put it out immediately.

[jal]

I've heard that Rogov, the big macher Israeli food and wine critic, is a heavy smoker. If so, that would be bizarre.

Steve, I met Rogov three years ago for coffee in an outdoor cafe in Tel Aviv. A really nice fella, but he smoked non-stop. After about twenty minutes, I had to excuse myself, even though we were outdoors, I could not breath from all the cigarettes. Funny, how smokers think that outdoor puffing is still alright, my lungs certainly disagreed.

[DavidG]

Andre Tchelistcheff (sp??), the legendary winemaker for BV, was a heavy smoker. So is Clive Coates. Hard to understand how they can taste and smell without major distortion, but apparently it's possible...???

[jal]

I love thread drifts. It's what makes BWE so unique, posters will say whatever they want, drift in and out of a subject and except for a few instances where the initial creator of the thread got ticked off, the conversation just flows in all kind of weird directions. I'm just glad Jim won't interfere and tell everyone to get back on the subject and start a new thread if you want to discuss Israeli wine or smoking or weird restaurant names or whatever.

[jal]

'Course they are expensive relative to my other recent purchases.

Well, everything is expensive relative to your recent purchases, buddy.

Jealous Jacques

[DavidG]

Couldn't agree more. It's like a conversation at a dinner party. Rules just stifle the conversation and make people feel uptight.

[Jay Winton]

can't we get back to whining?

[DavidG]

Jay, are you whining about not whining?

[stefan]

Last night at the Moriah at the Dead Sea we drank 2005 Yatir Cabernet. This is a very sound Cab that I opened five hours before dinner. It has excellent primary flavors but the strong tannins demand some lay down time.

This morning we sat in the water (people who have been in the Dead Sea will understand) and we picked up some salt balls for our adopted grandchildren. On this day of rest we'll likely have a Meursault at lunch and a red Burgundy at dinner (both of which we basically have to sneak in to the Kosher restaurant).

stefan

[jal]

Enjoy Stefan, watch out for the sink holes.