The 2005 Vintage -- how good is it really?

[danzur]

Data point-Just opened my first '05 Gloria. Cork is perfect-sound bottle. Dark crimson in color, lightening at the edges, no real tan or browning yet. Nose is shy, but with good swirling I get some nice plum, cherry, leather. The palate is surprising-I was expecting some tannic structure and acid. Nope. Virtually no acid detracted, broad, dark fruits on the palate. Virtually no tannin. Not flabby, not flat, but just missing structure. Good fruit, but no secondary characteristics yet. Not bad at all, nice wine, but not too interesting either. I wouldn't say this is closed as the fruit is there, but I just don't see this improving from where it is today. I'll see what happens throughout the evening.

As a comparison, had an '09 Gloria recently that had it all-fruit, nice acidity, tannic frame. Really good now, and will get better as the parts resolve.

This '05 is much different.

[JimHow]

Thanks for the report, Danzur.
2002 Gloria is in a good place right now.
I had the 2014 a couple weeks ago in the name of science. Very nice indeed.

[danzur]

The Gloria has gotten a lot more tannic and closed as it has been open the last 3-4 hours. Surprising as I didn't sense this coming when opened. Not sure when to open another, but i can only assume it needs more time. This wine has whipsawed-now it seems like an '86.

[marcs]

Good description Danzur. That's been exactly my experience about what is weird in some LB 2005s. They are stealth shut down.

I say "stealth" because when you open them there is a lot of fruit but they seem boring because they lack depth and complexity. Then the tannins come out after a while and you realize there is actually a huge wall of tannins in there concealing the depth and complexity. In wines from a normal year they would just be flat with no fruit and obviously shut down. But the 2005s have so much fruit that it actually conceals how shut down they are.

This is very subjective and unscientific on my part but that's the story I'm telling myself.

[Comte Flaneur]

Slight thread drift. I tried 2010 Talbot yesterday. What a wine! It has power, authority, structure, freshness, perfect ripeness, full body, but superb precision and balance, beautiful texture and a long finish. I actually tried this about a year ago next to the 2016 and it showed well then. The tens and 16s are quite similar but the tens have a bit more power and extract. The 2010 Talbot is still young of course with a lot of unresolved tannin, but the quality leaps out at you. No doubt in my mind that 2010 is a very great vintage.

Getting back to 2005 I have been racking my thoughts on what I have tried, and two that I have had great experiences with are Clos Du Marquis and Beychevelle. Both superb and already drinking. I own some of the latter but not the former.

[Blanquito]

Two standouts in 2005: Beychevelle and Sociando Mallet. I keep my eye out for those two on the secondary market.

Not tried the 2005 Gloria, but the 2009 Gloria is a great wine in the making, when I tried one on release I sensed they’d taken things to a new, higher level.

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes agreed Patrick the 2005 Sociando Mallet is the best this estate ever produced.

I purchased a case of 2005 Clos Du Marquis today.

[marcs]

Yes, I love the 2005 Sociando Mallet as well. Don't have the depth of experience to say whether it's the best SM ever but it's certainly the best I've ever had.

The acidity is amazing and perfectly in balance with the fruit. That wine has the tension of a plucked guitar string vibrating in your mouth. But it's as yet a baby, can't wait to see what happens when the tannins relax. Glad to have half a case of it set aside!

[Blanquito]

Marcs, that acidity is something I’m quite high on for the 05s in general (Parkerized wines excluded), one of the main reasons I went long on the 05s. The combo of high acidity with high concentration is really appealing. That’s an uncommon combo as sugar and acid usually trade-off as the grapes ripen. The reason 05 pulled this off, supposedly, was the relatively moderate temperatures — which retained the acids — combined with a very dry growing season — which concentrated the must, providing the fruit, and thickened the skins, providing the structure. Viola!

[Musigny 151]

Similar vintage to 2005 in recent vintages - 2010!

Same ripening conditions, style and fruit. 2010 has fatter tannin, more grained and a bit sweeter. No diseases in neither 2005 and 2010, almost all the grapes went into Grand Vin. 2015 is close.

One winemaker told me in 2006 - if you couldn't make a good wine in 2005, you should be fired from your job!!

I think 2005 is a more balanced vintage than 2010 which registered record levels of tannin, alcohol and dry matter. Personally I thought it was a magnificent left bank vintage, but found disturbing levels of alcohol in almost all the Right Bank wines, even those I usually like. The problem was trying to get decent ripeness while keeping alcohol levels in check.

[Comte Flaneur]

The British wine critics and selected merchants at their annual gathering in Southwold agree with Mark and voted 2005 the best recent vintage in early 2016.

From Jacks in the FT: “Recent Bordeaux vintages ranked. Here is how our group of about 20 wine professionals ranked the vintages of this century.

1. 2005 (221 points)

2. 2009 (215 points)

3. 2010 (210 points)

4. 2000 (179 points)

5. 2001 (165 points)

6. 2008 (120 points)

7. 2006 (118 points)

8. 2012 (108 points)

9. 2003 (89 points)

10. 2004 (85 points)

11. 2007 (60 points)

12. 2002 (43 points)

13. 2011 (25 points)

Would be interesting to see where 14, 15 and 16 fit in. For the life of me I cannot fathom how they rate 2007 ahead of 2002 and 2011.

[AKR]

Still, overall, its been a simply remarkable decade and a half for BDX.

Perhaps this is the new paradigm.

But if not, let's enjoy it while we can.

[greatbxfreak]

Mark,

I don't bother with high alcohol in some wines on Right Bank in 2010 vintage - it'll integrate with time. Have to disagree on "in almost all wines..."

Ian,

I think the list will change with arrival of 2015 and 2016 vintages...

[AKR]

2005 is turning into my favorite vintage, post 1990. I really love how almost anything opened from that year will delight as exemplified by last night's 2005 Rouget [Pomerol]. I'd held this release, purchased EP, but I don't think I'd had one yet. After trying the 2005 Gazin that WilliamP poured for some local BWE some months ago, I was looking forward to trying more of these merlot driven wines. Although this doesn't have the grip/strength of the Gazin, it's still a solid, husky example of the AOC. Most of the tannin has dissolved, the color is turning garnet, and the texture is smooth albeit not at the silkiest elite Pomerol levels. I pick up a touch of bay, cinnamon, creamy coffee on the nose. It feels more medium bodied to me, and the label reports 13.5% abv. The acidity is tempered, and the fruit leans dark and plummy. J quite likes it too, and I'll mark it an A- on my scorecard.

[Musigny 151]

Fun to see this thread resuscitated. In the intervening five years I have probably tasted/drunk around a dozen wines, and they finally seem to be emerging from the dour stage. I still think that fully emerged, it is going to be one of the greatest vintages, and even with some of the highly regarded new vintages, it will still stand out.

With the exception of both Pichons and VCC, whenever I have tasted the 2005s, it has been part of a vertical, and judged against its peers, the quality has been readily apparent, although always with the caveat “oh, give it another decade.”

Perhaps 2016 may end up as the better vintage, but that apart, I cannot think of a 21st century vintage that produced such extraordinary wines on both banks.

[Nicklasss]

Agree that 2005 is great. I notice that very early for 2005 as the "petits vins" were great! This does not lie.

[DavidG]

I’ll pile on to say I’ve been enjoying the ‘05s and agree with Mark about them starting to show well. I think they are still on the upswing.

Some I’ve been afraid to open. I get the willies every time I eye Angelus or Pavie, fearful that they may bludgeon me to death with over-ripe fruit and bury me under massive extract. Hoping if I leave them imprisoned in the cellar long enough they’ll eventually age out of their violent tendencies.

[Blanquito]

The 05s have arrived? Tres bien.

Which of these best to try now?:
d’Armailhac
Batailley
Beychevelle
Boyd Cantenac
Brane Cantenac
Calon Segur
Cantemerle
Carmes Haut Brion
Chauvin
Clos Rene
d'Issan
Duhart Milon
Figeac
Gaffeliere
Giscours
Grand Puy Lacoste
Haut Batailley
Lagrange
Lagune
Magdelaine
Montrose
Rouget
Siran
Sociando Mallet
St. Pierre

[Nicklasss]

The 05s have arrived? Tres bien.

Which of these best to try now?:
d’Armailhac
Batailley
Beychevelle
Boyd Cantenac
Brane Cantenac
Calon Segur
Cantemerle
Carmes Haut Brion
Chauvin
Clos Rene
d'Issan
Duhart Milon
Figeac
Gaffeliere
Giscours
Grand Puy Lacoste
Haut Batailley
Lagrange
Lagune
Magdelaine
Montrose
Rouget
Siran
Sociando Mallet
St. Pierre

I guess Rouget is ok, when reading Arv post above. Probably Cantemerle and La Lagune too? Duhart is great and probably ready?

[Musigny 151]

Lagrange tends to evolve fairly quickly

[JoelD]

Lagrange tends to evolve fairly quickly

I had the Lagrange recently. It's definitely ready to be drunk. Light on it's feet and sweet fruited, maybe a tad too sweet. But did not seem extracted or overripe at all. I'm not completely sure where it will go from here. It could go up or down, although i would lean towards the upside for your palate, Patrick. Worth checking on if you have 3+ though.

I agree with Mark that I think 2005 will probably be the "best" vintage until 2016. I am not sold on 09/10 at all yet, but I didn't get to try them young so maybe that's not a fair assessment. 2000 has really come around lately but won't eclipse it 05/16 except for the fact that most estates were still fairly classic then.

[stefan]

D'Armailhac is slower to develop than usual, but is pretty close to being there. I will continue to store the few I have left in my warmer storage (64F in the summer).

Best to hold the 2005 Sociando and enjoy the 2003 now. Actually, I think it is time to drink up all but the fanciest 2003s.

[Blanquito]

D'Armailhac is slower to develop than usual, but is pretty close to being there. I will continue to store the few I have left in my warmer storage (64F in the summer).

That’s great, as I have a sizable stash of these. I remember trying a bottle in September 2015 when these were still plentiful and inexpensive in the market, and thinking this was an excellent wine in the making given enough time.

[Comte Flaneur]

My three favourite 2005s for current drinking are Gruaud - ‘zen-like’ - iirc according to JA - Duhart and Beychevelle

Has anyone recently tried Sociando Mallet?

It won’t be long before we will be doing 20th anniversary 2005 tastings - my, tempus fugit.

[stefan]

Yes, Ian; my advice to Patrick was based on drinking 2005 Sociando this past year. It is certainly OK for drinking now, but I prefer to hold and drink 2003 now.

[Blanquito]

Except for 4 bottles of the surprisingly credible Lanessan (which is ready but holding nicely), I have a grand total of 4 bottles of 2003 left, kept purely out of curiosity: Duhart, Pichon Lalande, Sociando, and Langoa Barton.

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes, Ian; my advice to Patrick was based on drinking 2005 Sociando this past year. It is certainly OK for drinking now, but I prefer to hold and drink 2003 now.

Ah yes sorry stefan so you did above

About two years we did a 2005 dinner in London and some of the wines showed pretty well - notably a Batailley which ran rings around a GPL. I acquired a few of the 05 Batailley at auction recently so will give one a go soon.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9787&hilit=2005.+Ordeaux

[DavidG]

The 05s have arrived? Tres bien.

Which of these best to try now?:
d’Armailhac
Batailley
Beychevelle
Boyd Cantenac
Brane Cantenac
Calon Segur
Cantemerle
Carmes Haut Brion
Chauvin
Clos Rene
d'Issan
Duhart Milon
Figeac
Gaffeliere
Giscours
Grand Puy Lacoste
Haut Batailley
Lagrange
Lagune
Magdelaine
Montrose
Rouget
Siran
Sociando Mallet
St. Pierre

I’d go after these first:
Cantemerle
Rouget
Siran

They’re drinking well but not deep into the aged complexity bit yet. If they aren’t meeting your expectations, give ‘em another Blanquito and figure 2 Blanquitos for the rest.