Parker, Rolland and Perse - Crash & Burn

[SteveH]

Andover, Massachusetts, June 27th...
Gerard Perse was in the left hand seat of the cockpit. Michel Rolland was flight engineer. Robert Parker was the navigator and communications officer. Their grand and costly craft, known as the 1999 Chateau Pavie is now smouldering wreckage. This is a wine that seduced me on release. Like Eliot Spitzer, thinking with his small head, I kept going back for more. On these pages, at release and for several years afterward, I shouted from the rooftop to the heavens proclaiming the greatness of this wine. At one point the wine was so good that I stated my worst fear of this modern, new generation wonder. I feared out loud that it might be, "... a shooting star." It was, in all it's glory, just that flash of bright light. This overextracted wine is now spent, hollow and showing early signs of maderization. This is the second bottle to fail in six months. I have two remaining bottles in the cellar and I'm sure their fateful end is here.

Is this Armageddon for Robert Parker's style of modern winemaking?

Steve

[Chasse-Spleen]

Maybe it's just a short-lived '99.
-Chasse

[DavidG]

Wow, that's a surprise.

Is it really maderized (as in oxidized/over the hill) at only 10 years of age? That's an age at which most Bdx should just be starting to open up, though the '99 Pavie never really closed down. "Maderized" makes me wonder about the integrity of the cork seals and storage temps, but I know you've got good storage Steve. Or has it lost the appealing blush of youth without blossoming into anything interesting? This would seem to me to be the concern with modern/Parkerized wines. I'm hoping it is just going through a phase.

I now know what to open for dinner tonight... going to have to crack one to see for myself.

[SteveH]

Check it out David.
My storage is good. These bottles were mixed and matched from three different NH State Stores.

[stefan]

Hmm. This was always the fear, that these wines would not age. I am sorry to hear that the fear was justified.

stefan

[AlexR]

Hi,

The only (modern) Pavie I have ever had at table was the 99 vintage.

This was with 2 English wine merchants and one Bordeaux négociant.

It was served blind.

We were all disappointed and flabbergasted to learn what it was.
The words "hollow" and "extracted" correspond exactly with my memory.
None of us even guessed the wine was Bordeaux and all of us felt it was not worth the money.

I will not, however, be found on an anti-Perse crusade.
I believe the man has learned from his past mistakes and more recent vintages are less topheavy, not hell-bent on over-achieving.

The problem is that Pavie is not at the UGC tastings. You have to go there especially during the en primeur week, and it is not always easy to find the time...

Best regards,
Alex R.

[DavidG]

The '99 Pavie is on trial for being a flash in the pan, so it's time to open one up. Here goes, in the Jim How style, with updates as it develops...

A little pour on opening, straight out of the cellar, shows a dark purple core with lightening to dark ruby red at the rim. Not much fruit on the nose, just some oak and alcohol, and indeed there's nothing there on the palate. Could it be over and out already for this wine? But it's still at cellar temp, so let's let it warm up for half an hour and come back.

[Comte Flaneur]

Monbousquet 1999 is also an empty hollow oaky shell of a wine

Steve - I can't believe the Pavie hit the wall so fast

[DavidG]

Once it warms up from cellar temp and given a half hour of air, some fruit and tar and smoke started to come out on the nose, but still a little hollow on the mid and back palate. Looks like there may be some hope there...

[DavidG]

Give it more time, though, another hour and the nose starts showing dark cherries, plums, smoke and tobacco, but still a bit of alcoholic heat. The palate starts to round out nicely with ripe fruit on the front end, no real complexity, low acid but not flabby, good balance, medium body, not as alcoholic on the palate as on the nose, but the fruit starts to give way to the alchohol and tannins on the back palate. Getting better but not the lush seductress it was in its youth.

[DavidG]

A final note from another hour later: there's still a hollow spot on the mid and back palate. I'll agree with Steve that it's a shadow of its former self, though I don't sense any maderization or oxidation.

For those who claim it was hollow from the get-go, we must have been tasting different wines or have a completely different approach. Slutty in its youth? Sure. But empty? No way, not for the first few years after release.

I'm not giving up on it yet, though. I'll have another taste from the remains tomorrow, though I don't expect it to be any better then. But rather than sell my remaining bottles, I'm going to hold them and open the next in about 5 years, in the hopes that it will perk up.

This is, for me, the essence of the whole modernization/Parkerization/Rollandization/Perserization issue. Will these wines eventually turn into Bordeaux as we know it, or are they just freaks of nature that light up the sky and fizzle out? Some of the arguments being made now are similar to those we heard about the '82s, and those wines turned out just beautifully. It can be argued that things have been taken to much greater extremes since then. I'm not qualified or ready to pass judgment, but I'll continue to cellar these wines and open them over time.

[rjsussex]

On a far less elevated (or just less costly) level that was exactly my experience with Cap de Faugeres 2000 and Fougas (?) Maldoror (?) 1999: lush and creamy-oaky (sort of fake-Pomerols both) on release and for about six months after - then suddenly - collapsed, just wood, alcohol and acid.

Richard

[dstgolf]

Thanks for taking one in the name of science David and Steve. I've had a few sleeping in my cellar and maybe I've been foolish to not try her in her youth. This is something that I tend to avoid with Bordeaux especially the premium bottles not wanting to start sampling until the 10 year mark. Not sure if I should wait on the Pavie or try one in the near future?

99 Monbousquet I'd differ with the opinion that it's fallen apart. Unless somrthing dramatic has happened in the last 4 months since the last one that I had I'd say something was wrong with the bottle. I thought the 98 &99 are drinking beautifully now with a gorgeous full throttle nose that makes you want to sniff more than drink!

The Fougas I agree does not hold for the long haul and I get the most pleasure in 3-5 year post release window. Isn't that what you'd expect though from one of the satellite appelations crafted in a more new world style?

Danny

[SteveH]

Thank you for your measured and detailed notes, David. Your step by step report is most instructive.
Alex's experience with the ' 99 Pavie was also not encouraging.

I'm wondering what will happen to this style of wine in a more highly acclaimed vintage that carries the mega pricetag, such as 2000? Will the fruit flop there as well? Of course only time will tell. Potential buyers should beware of ratings that were published years ago. I have one bottle of the 2000 Pavie from a trade five years ago. It's rated 100 RP. Maybe the ' 99s weakness is unique, but I doubt it.

These wines are just too front-end-loaded to build the aged character and nuances that we most appreciate.

Steve

[Claret]

The Parker, Rolland and other gangsters formula for structure involves "sweet tannins" and low acidity from the grapes, instead picking up some tannin from all that new French oak they favor. Hardly a formula for long cellaring, so who cares what they taste like in 10 years, when one can enjoy all of the hedonistic up front fruit and gloss now without aging the wines very long.

I have some Pavie Mac from 1994 and 1995 that is early in the Perse regiment, and from cooler vintages than many recent years. I am curious to see how theses more tannic and less manipulated vintages have held up.

One more thing. WTF are sweet tannins? I drink quality teas straight up every day, and tea is loaded with tannins. Tannins are dry and sometimes course, but they are never sweet. I suppose that he is referring to soft and polished tannins that come from a long hangtime.

[Harry C.]

Perse isn't involved with Pavie Macquin. From their web site:
"Pavie Macquin is a property admirably situated on the top of the plateau of Saint Emilion. The realisation of the enormous quality of the property, as well as the will-power to produce a wine worthy of the terroir, began with the arrival of Maryse Barre in 1986. With great energy and determination, Madame Barre contributed hugely to the renaissance of the property. Her work is carried on by Nicolas Thienpont, who arrived at the end of 1994, accompanied by Stéphane Derenoncourt, already present at the chateau since 1990. They found, in Pavie Macquin, the ideal birthplace for a method of production that has since been proven the world over."

[DavidG]

The next day the wine hadn't budged an inch. A hollow shell of it's former self. But I come not to bury Pavie, but to praise him. This was a great wine in the blush of youth, and my (perhaps unwarrented) hope is that it will rise again.

"Sweet tannins" to me means the astringency/furry feel of tannins without the bitterness. Since tannins are by definition bitter (at least I think they are), this to me means that there is sufficient ripe fruit to give an overall impression of sweetness or softness that masks the bitterness of the tannins in the wine. Then again, I'm not the one who wrote the note, so who knows? I've heard others state that bitterness of the tannins decreases with increasing ripeness of the grapes. So if you eat a not-so-ripe grape and bite into the pips, you get a not-so-sweet bitter astringent hit of tannins. And if you eat a really ripe grape and bite into the pips, you get a mellower, maybe not sweet per se but sweeter than in the first example impression of the tannins.

As to acidity: I disagree with the notion that acidity is necessary for red wines to age. Tannnis are a reasonable substitute. Look at the '82s. They were low acid. The '82 Pichon Lalande we had in DC this spring was awesome. And if you don't believe me and the other 30 people who tasted it, read what RP has to say in his restrospective of 1982 Bordeaux just out today. Yeah, I know RP has sunk to a new low, but this is what our own BD had to say about his wine tasting abilities as recently as April 29:

"Wow! Wow! Wow!" exclaimed a delighted How. "We are humbled by the wisdom and knowledge of Mr. Parker

(OK, take that with a grain of salt - it was in response to RP's extolling the virtues of '89 Lynch Bages)

Maybe oak tannins don't qualify as a substitute for or as a significant addition to grape tannns - I don't know. But acidity is not a necessary condition for ageworthiness in red Bordeaux. Time will tell if these wines come around at age 15 or 20. I completely understand the hesitation of many to invest and cellar them, not knowing what they will turn into. But I think it is too soon to write their obituary.

[Claret]

Oops, my bad. I do not drink too many wines that are made in this modern style, so I occassionally get them mixed up. I should have been referring to my 1995 Monbousquet, which I do believe is a Perse project. I recall liking it at an offline at Gio's restuarant about 6 years ago, and am curious to see how well it has held up at age 14.

David, Parker likes low acid wines.That being said, 1982 PL was outstanding the one time that I tasted it in 1992. I enjoy 1982's quite a bit, but I think that they are not typical of modern vintages in both the winemaking style from riper grapes that are left to hang longer, and the warmer climate which promotes ripeness. I prefer wine with a vibrant but natural acidity. As the sugar level rises in the grape the acidity level decreases. To me proper acidity from the grape and not fake acidulations are a key component in the balance of an exceptional wine with structure. I consider acidity as well as tannins key components for long term aging. There are of course some exceptions that will age with lowish acidity, but these are not wines that I seek out.

Glenn

[DavidG]

Glenn, your points are well-taken. Parker does like low-acid wines and in general gives higher scores and more laudatory reviews to them than to high-acid wines, though he has also given high scores and positive reviews to wines that depend on acidity for their structure and balance and freshness. He has also been a long-time opponent of acidulation, but then again he is coming at that from the direction of one who is perfectly happy with an uber-ripe wine with low acid. To a large degree it is a difference in stylistic preferences, and we have no disagreement there. I enjoy both styles under the appropriate circumstances. But when it comes to whether the wines will age well, I think there may be a lot more potential for very ripe, lower-acid wines to age on their tannins than just "some exceptions." (Ignoring the fact that all ageable wines are to some degree exceptions - most wine is made to drink right away - but that's not what we're talking about)

It may be a circular argument to cite Parker himself, since we agree he is a fan of low-acid wines, but his recent broad retrospective on 1990 Bdx indicates that many of these wines are drinking beautifully at 19 years of age, and that quite a few should stll be going strong for another decade. My own experience is much less broad, but I draw similar conclusions. This was a very ripe year with a lot of low acid wines, though it could be argued that the full force of Parkerization/Modernization was not yet in effect. And there are some '90s, like l'Evangile, where Parker himself wonders whether they are falling apart or just going through an awkward stage.

I think it's a fascinating debate. Certainly it makes no sense for those who prefer the more acidic style to acquire a lot of low-acid wines. It's a more complex question for those of us who enjoy the low-acid style: do we bet on these wines ageing or do we employ a buying strategy based on the assumption that these are drink-in-their-youth wines? Some have already decided these wines wont age. I think many of them will. I'm too old to be buying '08s and on, but I do have a bunch of '00s through '05s in the cellar, and I'm choosing to hold them rather than sell them. I've been wrong before - having acquired a lot of '80s and '90s Cali Cabs that, while great wines, did not turn into Bordeaux after 15 years. It will be interesting to see what recent vintages of Bordeaux turn into. If they don't turn out to develop the magical complexity that defines great aged Bordeaux, well, hopefully there will still be an auction market.

[SteveH]

Plenty of sensible and well founded comments here regarding the continued cellar worthiness of wines fashioned with ' modern ' winemaking methods.

I should add that a recent bottle of the ' 98 Pape Clement was considerably more awkward and gangly than a bottle drunk just last winter which was showing focused, high-toned ripe fruit. On the other hand, two recent bottles of ' 90 Angelus have been absolutely spectacular.

It's a sin NOT to keep up with the contents our cellars. The premature death of costly bottles can be avoided. Check in at least twice a year for updates on those wines where non-classic methods were employed. All we need is a corkscrew.

Steve

[stefan]

>>
It's a sin NOT to keep up with the contents our cellars.
>>

Yeah, but it is awfully difficult to keep up with everything. By BWE standards I don't have a huge number of bottles, but the print out is 24 pages, single spaced. Still, being basically a necrophile, I have lost few bottles other than premoxed white Burgundies to age.

stefan

[SteveH]

Stefan: "... the printout is 24 pages single spaced..."
Your bottles are multiplying, despite your constant efforts to enjoy all of them, all the time. Bravo.

[SteveH]

It's only natural that a math professor's bottles should multiply!

[Claret]

Steve, do you think that the ' 98 Pape Clement is just in a grumpy stage now ot going downhill?

Glenn

[stefan]

Yes, Steve; wine bottles do bear some similarity to rabbits.

stefan

[DavidG]

When you have case quantities of stuff, it's easy to open a bottle every 6 months or so to check in. When you have only 3 or 4 bottles, it's a different story. My strategy is to keep abreast of what other people are saying on various wine boards, and more recently, on Cellar Tracker. Though there are so many users on Cellar Tracker it's taking some time to learn whose palate to trust.

[SteveH]

Glenn, It would be unfair to say that the ' 98 Pape Clement is going downhill. I've drunk through less than half the case and only that recent bottle was, "off." I'll try number six in the fall and let you know. This wine never appeared to close down, and was very promising right out of the starting gate.

[Winona Chief]

Great thread - lots to think about. I certainly agree with the idea of drinking the wines before they fall apart.

I really enjoyed a very young and voluptuous 1999 Pavie about 5 years ago so I am a bit surprised by its poor recent showings. A 2001 Pavie was quite outstanding two years ago but I think I slightly preferred the 2001 Pavie Decesse. Not a big fan of Monbousquet - something about it that I just detest (after tasting the 2001, I took my few bottles back to Calvert-Woodley for store credit).

Chris Bublitz