Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

from my case purchased on release and properly stored. I was more enthusiastic about this wine a couple of years ago says CT. Now, not so much. Fruit is there but has an elderly taste to it, diffuse and tannins are more harsh. It may be time to drink up remaining bottles; I saved a glass for tonight. Served with beef tenderloin.

I find 2000 vintage to be overbilled... I don't know about top growths, but when it comes to lower growth properties, they are showing good, but not to the expectations of the 2000 hype. May be they need a bit more time, but I wonder about their complexity...In the past year or so, I have had cantemerle, haut bages liberal and langoa barton. All showed well, but lacked complexity...Will save final judgement post Blanquito time frame...

Interesting, Jay. I did not like this much early on, but found that it had blossomed 2-3 years ago and now drinks very well.

2000 was better when it was young.

Not La Lagune, Jim.

Chateau Vin wrote:I find 2000 vintage to be overbilled... I don't know about top growths, but when it comes to lower growth properties, they are showing good, but not to the expectations of the 2000 hype. May be they need a bit more time, but I wonder about their complexity...In the past year or so, I have had cantemerle, haut bages liberal and langoa barton. All showed well, but lacked complexity...Will save final judgement post Blanquito time frame...

Funny I was saying this the other day...when I think back on all the bordeaux that have left an impression on me...
i think only a lone 2000 G.Larose stood out from that vintage...so yes 2000 might be a bit overrated

The best Bordeaux I've had this year was a 2000 Peby Faugeres.

I have been highly impressed by some lower level 2000 Bordeaux, especially right bank like Grand Mayne, Yon Figeac, a few others I can't remember. Also some lower level left bankers like Sociando Mallet and Haut Bergey. Gruaud Larose was also really good.

I don't think all the higher level 2000 Bordeaux have quite rounded into shape. It is a tannic vintage after all. Had a very good Pichon Lalande though.

But I think in terms of the fruit/classicism balance 2000 scores very well. I have faith the super seconds and the like will come around. It's not like they are bad, they just still have a tannic tail.

The 2nd night glass did not produce a good result as the wine had fallen apart. A couple of sips and adios.

If the wine "had fallen apart" by the second day, I wonder if it might have been an isolated bad bottle. It does not seem like a 2000 Bordeaux of this pedigree should behave like that.

Had the '00 beau sejour earlier this month...a solid and pleasing quality bordeaux, but I enjoyed the leaner '97 quite a bit more

We drank an '00 clerc milon a couple months ago. Gorgeous nose, very classic, not as complex on the palate as one might expect based on the intricate nose, but a very good wine....again I preferred the more interesting '97 Potensac.

JCNorthway wrote:If the wine "had fallen apart" by the second day, I wonder if it might have been an isolated bad bottle. It does not seem like a 2000 Bordeaux of this pedigree should behave like that.

My thought as well but again, properly stored since purchase on release and cork in excellent shape. ITNOS and BWE everywhere, will have to crack another bottle soon.

Racer Chris wrote:The best Bordeaux I've had this year was a 2000 Peby Faugeres.

I've been drinking the 2000 Faugeres [St Emilion] tonight, held since release, and it too is really good. Fleshy, round, resolved with a nose of spice and cinnamon. Some dulce de leche too. Very good color too. There's some cab franc here, but not as much as other estates, and perhaps it ripens more. I couldn't find any other notes here on this, and I'm surprised I had not mentioned it earlier. Very similar to Barde Haut and it would be interesting to compare them side by side and force rank them blind. I'm glad the bottle was sound -- I've had bad luck with this property and their corks -- and I'm TCA tolerant.

The concentration of the fruit here is impressive. Lots of richness, yet balance, and no goopy/grapiness.

I've been very pleased with the 2000s I've been opening recently, and find them just starting to enter the plateau of maturity with some aged complexity. I think my drinking window starts about 5-10 years after Jim's closes. Most have been excellent or very good. Here are notes on those I've scored excellent in the last couple of years. I don't use point scores because I'm not that accurate. An excellent from me is in the 90-95 range and is a wine I love, outstanding is >95, and very good is 85-90, a wine I like and am happy to drink, and one I would usually buy if it's under $50.

• 2000 Château Angélus - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Opens up over an hour or two to display a forward nose of plums, cassis, black fruits, oaky/smoky tar, cedar and earth with beginning tertiary complexity. Full body, ripe fruit, lush palate feel, well-balanced, plenty of tannins, long finish. Excellent to outstanding, drinking beautifully now, expect even more as the complexity ramps up over the years.
• 2000 Clos l'Église (Pomerol) - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Dark red core, lighter at rim. Takes a few hours to open up. Nose of plums, earth, chocolate, medium body, balance on the low-acid side, not a lot of complexity, medium finish. On its plateau, should hold another 5 years. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Gruaud Larose - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
  Opens with a very fragrant nose but a bit thin and weak on the palate. Left alone for an hour the Gruaud blossoms into a wonderfully aromatic, medium bodied and beautifully balanced wine with moderate aged complexity and a long finish. Continues to drink well throughout the rest of the evening. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Pontet-Canet - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Seems a bit tired on opening with reticent nose, more tannins than fruit, but after an hour in the glass it starts to open and continues to improve. Cassis, tobacco and earth on nose, medium-full body, some complexity, good balance, medium finish. Has years to go and likely to improve as it becomes more complex, but not a fruit-forward wine. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Nenin - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Dark red color, dark berries, plums and earth on the nose, plenty of ripe fruit to balance the tannins, this bottle is showing very differently than recent notes suggest. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Prieuré-Lichine - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Dark red, minimal lightening at rim. Forward, expressive nose of cassis, leather, earth. Medium body, ripe red fruits and some complexity on the palate, well balanced, integrated tannins, medium finish. Has reached its plateau and will likely remain there for at least a decade. Room for some fruit/complexity trade off in the future, a positive if you like that. Excellent to outstanding.
• 2000 Château Giscours - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
  Cellared since release. Perfect fill and cork. Dark red, minimal lightening at rim. Classic nose of ripe cassis, Margaux-berries, some earthy complexity. Medium-full body, ripe cassis fruit and earthy notes follow the nose, some nice aged complexity, well balanced, medium-long finish. Keeps me coming back for another glass. Should continue to drink well for many years. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Nenin - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Dark red core, lightening at rim. Dark fruits, cedar/tobacco, strong note of iodine on the nose. Full-bodied with dark ripe fruit, good balance, still tannic on the finish. The next day the iodine note is replaced by more dark fruits and the palate feel trends towards lush with a mellowed finish. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Sociando-Mallet - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Haut-Médoc
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Immediately after opening, still cool from the cellar, it's already got a great nose of cassis, smoke, black pepper, green pepper, tea. They carry through to the palate, where the wine is beautifully balanced and medium-bodied. Crunchy fruit, crisp acidity. The classic Sociando greens are there, just in the right proportion for this wine. After a couple of hours the wine is even better and fuller. A great match with a grilled Flannery NY steak. Starting to show just a bit of tertiary complexity, this should get even better with more cellar age. Excellent.
• 2000 Château Canon-la-Gaffelière - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru (2/16/2016)
  Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Dark red to rim. Lush, smooth, full-bodied and well-balanced with cherry, plum and earthy notes, good finish. Drinking very well but no significant tertiary complexity yet. The stuffing is there if you're willing to wait for it. Excellent now with potential for increased complexity.

DavidG wrote:I've been very pleased with the 2000s I've been opening recently, and find them just starting to enter the plateau of maturity with some aged complexity.

Me too. I've had quite a few 2000s over the past year, they are very good to excellent from the basic Cru to Classified Growths. I have not popped the big boys that likely need more time, such as Montrose, Leoville Barton, Pichon Baron, et al.

Excellent notes, David. And yea, that 2000 Sociando is wonderful. I've had about 6 bottles of it over the last several years. Amazing that it comes from a ripe vintage. Drinks more cool climate.

Guys, guys, guys! The 2000s need at least 5 more years!

Yes, yes, they’ve finally come out of their hard shells by and large, but all but the most friendly entry level wines (eg Charmail) have miles to go before they peak-peak. The Sociando is delicious now, but has a silky complexity not too far off if we can wait a few more Blanquitoes. Promise.

I agree with both of you.

Gotta check in on them now and then, which is why I'm opening a few here and there. But the bulk are still chillin' in Blanquito mode.

We finished the rest of the 00 Faugeres last night before going out for dinner....what a big ball of fruit it is. Near the end of the bottle which got a little cloudy with sediment there was more tannic mouthfeel. Impressive to still have a little grip left as it rolls into age 19.

Personally, I'm not going out of my way to save any 2000 or earlier vintages further. If they get consumed, so be it. But the cellar collectively continues maturing/aging since most other regions that I might consume are always going to be younger than the BDX average age. And some of those anyways do have shorter lifespans, so need to be consumed younger anyways e.g. Beaujolais

Appreciate all these comments on the 2000. I don't have any left, but Clos Fourtet and DuhartbMilon were very excellent, perfect mixture of traditionnal with light modern techiques.

Nic

Will 2000 Bordeaux be the theme at BWE-2020?

Folks
I was in Bordeaux during the 2000 harvest (I stayed at Ch Cordellian Bages) as I did in 2003.
The harvest in 2000 was relatively late and the cabs were being brought into the chais in the main Pauillac and St Estephe chateaux well into October.
By then, the weather was dry, cool and quite pleasant.
The grapes at most estates (at least the ones I saw) were in excellent condition with smallish berries and dark colours.
The winemakers and cellar rats all looked happy and that was NOT the case in 2003 (imagine that...)
The view expressed at the time was that 2000 was going to be a classic Bordeaux vintage with dark colours and dark fruit flavours, and one for long term keeping.

I think 2000 was never going to be a ripe, rich, modern style like say, 09.
I'd compare it more with 96 in the Medoc but with a bit more ripeness and density. And I like 96 by the way.
Maybe more like 95 in the Libournais but again, a slightly better vintage overall.

As for La Lagune, I don't think it was a strong performer in 2000, and frankly, after outstanding wines in 1982 and 1983 it seemed to hit a bit of a slump.
I did however buy a case of the 2010 but am in no hurry to open it. Also have a case of 2016 arriving some time soon.

Yes, La Lagune has slumped badly. Don't buy any, Marc. Sell what you have at a big discount to me as I know people who will drink the swill.

stefan wrote:Yes, La Lagune has slumped badly. Don't buy any, Marc. Sell what you have at a big discount to me as I know people who will drink the swill.

No, no, don’t unload the plonk on Stefan, you’ll have to send it to me as I can give it a proper burial. Really, it’s beneath you Bill, you should let me handle this inglorious task.

Blanquito wrote:

stefan wrote:Yes, La Lagune has slumped badly. Don't buy any, Marc. Sell what you have at a big discount to me as I know people who will drink the swill.

No, no, don’t unload the plonk on Stefan, you’ll have to send it to me as I can give it a proper burial. Really, it’s beneath you Bill, you should let me handle this inglorious task.

I'm sorry guys, but I'm the only one who can dispose from the swill La Lagune the right way. The proof: in the last two weeks, I got rid of low price white Rhône, merlot Pays d'Oc, Chianti or Côte de Nuits Villages. So send the La Lagune to me, except the 2003 vintage that is beyong my capacity, as it is probably dangerous good or hazardous waste.

Nic

Send me your Cantermerle instead.

Guys
Oh come now.
I never said that 2000 LL was a disaster.
I just didn't think it performed to the level of the vintage.
If it has moved up this decade, great.
And I actually like the style of this wine - the 82 and 83 were outstanding, particularly since I picked them up for a song in the early 90's.

Jim
I recently bought some 2010 Cantermerle.
Picked up at auction from another expat going back to Australia (also bought his Electrolux Icon wine fridge - he was the local distributor).
Is is ready to drink now??

It has been a while since I've had it, Claudius, I too have an unopened case in the cellar.
I'll probably blanquito it for another five years before cracking it open.

Claudius2, of course we're kidding, being all fans of the Haut-Médoc Third Growth. I particularly liked the 1995 LL and I bought some 2016 (I did not taste) that I'm waiting with a high interest. The 2015 is excellent.

The 2010 Cantemerle worth a try now, if you bought a few bottles, and especially if you had the wine on other vintages, to compare. The 2010 is (Ithink) one of the best Cantemerle. Open a 2010 and drink it over 3-4 hours and you'll have a lot of fun: complex, concentrated, perfumed, excellent already and for long... of course, not a Pauillac or Saint Julien, but very amazing in it's own way.

Nic

Nicklass
Funny you mention the 1995 LL as that was the wine I took to the 95 Bordeaux tasting that I attended in NYC in end 2004.
My only actual meeting with any of the East Coast based BWE'rs.

In regard to vintage 2010, I initially thought that the vintage was for long keeping and that 09 would be ready a long time earlier.
I am now not so sure.
I have had a few 2010's recently that were surprisingly open (eg, Cos Labory, Ferriere, Larmande) and even the CB 09's like the Lanessan I had last week, Haut Bergeron and the fifth growth Camensac seem to need more time.

I bought 6 Cantemerle and will try one son, as I have not had much luck with this label so far.
Not sure if it is the age-old problem of being out of condition (don't forget many wines from France to either Aust or Singapore are often out of shape when they get here) or poor timing.

Last summer, I bought a single bottle of the 2010 Cos Labory. Do you think i can hold it for 10-12 more years?

Nic

I think the 95 La Lagune was not drinking so well at age nine. Is that right? Maybe my recollection is faulty. It is very good now. The 96, OTOH, drank well from the beginning and never went dumb. It is excellent now. I am sorry that I am nearing the end of my third case of it.

I recently back filled some 96 Lagune for $60 thanks to Stefan’s endorsement. I haven’t tried it yet.

The Lagune that really captures my imagination these days though is the 1985.

We drank through three cases of the 1985 as well, Patrick. I think I have one bottle left.

96 La Lagune is delicious as a fairly recent bottle demonstrated.

Remember when we discussed the 96 LL in the early days of BWE, Jay? I had some concern because it was so good and fruity when it was very young. Other 96s wanted to be left alone while LL cried out, "drink me; drink me". We continued to drink and I continued to buy, and within a couple of years it was clear that the wine would be good for a long time.

stefan wrote:Remember when we discussed the 96 LL in the early days of BWE, Jay? I had some concern because it was so good and fruity when it was very young. Other 96s wanted to be left alone while LL cried out, "drink me; drink me". We continued to drink and I continued to buy, and within a couple of years it was clear that the wine would be good for a long time.

This sounds ideal, why can't they make all wines like that?

stefan wrote:Remember when we discussed the 96 LL in the early days of BWE, Jay? I had some concern because it was so good and fruity when it was very young. Other 96s wanted to be left alone while LL cried out, "drink me; drink me". We continued to drink and I continued to buy, and within a couple of years it was clear that the wine would be good for a long time.

It sounds like 1996 La Lagune is yet another exception to the "can’t make old bones if it drinks well young" rule. I think there are more exceptions to that rule than there are examples that follow it. At least among the stuff we drink.

David, the 96 LL was exceptional in that it drank well at age 4. The 62 was very good at age 8 and the 85 at around that age, but at age 4 in a vintage in which most classified growths clearly needed many years to show their stuff? Even at age 23 many classified left bank 1996 wines require blanquitoing.

stefan wrote:David, the 96 LL was exceptional in that it drank well at age 4. The 62 was very good at age 8 and the 85 at around that age, but at age 4 in a vintage in which most classified growths clearly needed many years to show their stuff? Even at age 23 many classified left bank 1996 wines require blanquitoing.

The 96 Sociando (ok, not classified but achieves that distinction) is a poster child for patience. I have a couple left and will hold for a while.

Stefan, we have had many, many discussions re La Lagune and your memory is better than mine.