UK newspaper urges readers to buy BDX before Brexit

[Claudius2]

Alex
You can call me Mark by the way.
The Claudius handle was my blue Persian cat (he passed away some years ago from old age) who was smarter than most people I know. A long story.
His quirky but smart behaviour earned him the name.

I wasn't just referring young people in the west.
Many Chinese people who DID live through the Mao error which killed tend of millions argue that the young Chinese have forgotten the hard times that their parents and broader families lived through.
Maybe in some ways, forgetting the past is a good thing but China is now moving toward dystopian mass surveillance and "social credit" scores, and in the last few years, has massively increased incarceration into "re-education" camps in Xinjiang and Tibet. Their Internet is heavily censored and filled with propaganda and there are ever increasing numbers of disappearances of "dissidents" such as Falun Gong followers or anyone not toeing the party manifesto.
So China has been seduced by consumerism and whilst that isn't essentially all bad, it is a worry when that consumerism comes with Big Brother.
I sometimes think the consumerism is also Orwellian - more circuses for the plebs.

Can I just make one point about trade.
Until 1913, the USA govt earned most revenue from trade. In 1913, income taxes were commenced but those trade tariffs and duties never went away.
Now, I accept that govts need to raise revenue. But I don't agree that govts are best placed to make every decision for us.
Trade was simply an easy target for taxes and their ilk. It still is today and yes, I do get pissed off with some customs agent thinking he can open every box of Burgundy I import and handle every bottle in the hot Singaporean sun.....

My displeasure with the EU came not out of ethical grounds. It was simply that the Brits (including numerous rels at the time) voted for what they thought of as the EEC or "common market".
And you are correct of course that the French had blocked them previously - and many older Brits never forget it.

My view was that we all agree with having a level playing field and fair trade. Thus a common market was sensible.
But seriously, I have read numerous EU reports on all sorts of trade, economic and other policy issues and even gave students several reports as resources for study.

Just try and read the EU's numerous reports on Brexit.
The entire tone of them are that Europe (that is, all countries who are members) is by assumption some totally integrated lump. It even talks about members as "integrated" and has in fact conducted dozens of detailed, expensive and erudite reports which will almost certainly add to nothing. Trying to read them is about as much fun as a lobotomy.

It will of course be harder for Italy or any other Euro reliant nation to quit the EU.
I am also not sure the Italians want the Lira back as before the Euro, they complained their currency was worthless. Then they complained that with the Euro, everything is too expensive. C'est la vie.
Anyway, I'm off to Germany in May followed by Poland, Hungary, Austria and Italy and I wonder what what they will have to say this time.

[AlexR]

Mark,

Nice to know your real name and perhaps we will meet one day in Bordeaux.

My knowledge of Asia is abysmal and I entirely see your point. Any discussion about the Orient makes me feel like a nincompoop…
Many (most) laws and government documents are pretty dry, if not downright boring, but I agree that the EU has invented a whole new dimension… There is a gulf between the EU institutions and the common man bordering on the undemocratic.
I hope you enjoy your trip in May. I’m of Polish ancestry and have always wanted to go there, and a trip to Tokaj is on my bucket list…

All the best,
Alex

[Comte Flaneur]

I will respond to Mark as soon as I can which given my workload maybe a while.

Most of it is sadly misinformed and is an echo chamber for myriad myths about what the EU is really about.

The EU is such an easy target.

I think one constructive way to reply might be to compile an essential reading list.

[Claudius2]

Comte
Sorry to tell you this, but I really do not care if you agree or disagree.
If you want to love the EU, so be it, but don't lecture me about who is or is not misinformed.

AlexR,
My wife grew up in Mao's China.
Her family's business, home and private assets were expropriated during the cultural revolution, along with those of numerous friends.
I even edited a novel (which was based on fact though written as a novel) of the personal experiences of a close friend here. It is called "A Family Portrait" by Yang Lin.
Mao's GLF and CR led to the deaths of 30-50M people. It is hard to give an exact number, but some historians put it at a higher level that that.
Whilst Mao apologists will blame much of it on starvation, they ignore the real world events that led to mass starvation during the GLF which forced farmers to make steel (which was no more than useless pig iron sludge as they never sad open hearth furnaces). And they will often forget just how brutal the red guards were when it came to ensuring that nobody questioned any aspect of the regime's propaganda - including totally fake crop production statistics.

So in 2019, the older generation are still living with the shadow of the civil war, Japanese occupation, the GLF, CR and all the horrors it brings.
My Russian friends back in Sydney could easily say the same thing about their times in Soviet days, and some Jewish friends managed to survive Hitler's concentration camps (which I will visit in Poland soon).

I am not saying that we should hate each other as a result. I think it is sad that some Jewish friends still hate everything associated with Germany when very few were even alive then.
Yet the Chinese seem to have re-invented Mao as some form of folk hero. He was no such thing, not to mention being a sexual predator as well as a mass murderer.
Can't imagine the Germans reinventing Hitler as a nice guy who was just misunderstood......

So in 2019 I am often horrified that the precursors to authoritarian rule are totally ignored. Mass surveillance, clamping down on free speech and mass incarceration of dissidents is increasing in China and economic problems may lead Xi and his followers to fire up the red guards. Yet I also see similar signs (of course, not as bad but still concerning) in the west.

And irrespective of the good things that govt may do, I do not forget just how many people died last century due to endless wars, authoritarian brutality, govt corruption, incompetence and at times, spite.

[Comte Flaneur]

Claudius wrote
“To the people who voted for Brexit (including a few older relatives of mine) they had enough of a centralised Brussels "union" which has become anti-democratic, bullying and often trivial.
The EU had a real chance to facilitate the member states with open trade, rational discourse and co-operative approaches to common issues and problems. Had they bothered addressing that in any rational way Brexit would not have happened and in 2019, other countries are on the outer from the EU hierarchy and may pull out some time soon.
 
Related to that passage, I asked you the following questions:
 
* Could you explain, with examples, what you mean by a centralised Brussels union which has become anti-democratic bullying and trivial?’ Why in your opinion are EU governance institutions less democratic?
 
* Your second sentence about open trade, rational discourse and co-operative approaches: what point are you trying to make and may you could illustrate with some examples of what you mean?
 
* Likewise, you third sentence which other countries do you think are thinking of pulling out? Which countries are these?
 
* More generally what informs your opinions of the EU?
 
You were unable to explain what you meant by centralised Brussels union, or how the EU discourages open trade, rational discourse or co-operation, but you did claim that Italy and Hungary in particular (among others) are thinking of pulling out. You didn’t say what informs your views on the EU.  
Perusing your other comments on this thread – which was time consuming given how much you wrote – you made some other interesting observations:
* “My older rels in the UK are NOT in London…never saw themselves as part of Europe per se, and frankly, I don't blame them. Endless wars for thousands of years take their toll.
* I studied a lot of history over my life …in the previous century, authoritarian rulers and tin pot dictators led to the death of hundreds of millions of people, not just in wars but in direct attacks on their own people
* The EU is NOT a democratic institution and never was.
* I do not agree that the UK will have to accept EU regulations.
* A lot of wasted time was spent nit picking over what are relatively minor issues such as the northern Irish border.
 
Where to begin?

You say you studied a lot of history in your life, but that is directly belied by what you went onto write...your endless wars for thousands of years comment. The whole point of the EU is to draw a line under the destructive wars which have blighted the continent for centuries...(sigh)... culminating in WW1, during which an estimated 16m perished, and WW2 where the death toll has been variously estimated at 50-80m. Do you not understand that?

The nascent European Project combined the visions of the EU founding fathers, like Jean Monnet and yes even Winston Churchill, starting with the Schuman Plan in 1950 to integrate the coal and steel industries of Europe to prevent the rebuilding of the German military industrial complex, and the EEC was founded in 1957. You can read a good summary in this link but I would encourage you to read further.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... pean_Union

You refer to the NI border as a ‘relatively minor issue’ .... (sigh)....well it isn’t and you really need to educate yourself on that one.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -agreement

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

https://www.newstatesman.com/northern-ireland

Over more than six decades the European Union as it became known in 1993 has been remarkably successful in attracting new members and in keeping the peace, which culminated in being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012. There has also been some remarkable take off stories in the EU, the most impressive of which is Ireland.

Countries vying to join the EU have to comply with the 31 chapters of the Aquis Communautaire, to raise their standards in areas like human rights and the quality of their institutions to the level of the existing member states. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquis_communautaire

You say the EU is ‘NOT a democratic institution’ which belies your further lack of understanding of what the EU is about. First of all the EU is a set of institutions. Three out of its four governance institutions are fundamentally democratic.

You are not alone in labouring under the illusion that the European Commission calls the shots. It doesn’t. The Commission is like the civil service and takes its instructions from the EU Council of 28 democratically elected national leaders, plus Tusk and Juncker. For example, Michel Barnier’s negotiating mandate is framed by the Council. Juncker can be fired by the Council. In practice the most powerful person in the EU is Angela Merkel – she writes the biggest cheques – followed by Emmanuel Macron.

You seem to subscribe to the tabloid myths that the EC is out of control and interfering in our daily lives, which is so far from the truth. Boris Johnson used the specialise in making this stuff up before he got fired by the Times. He now writes for the Telegraph, which is now one of the key purveyors of fake news when it comes to Brexit.

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/eu ... a-z-index/
 
I do agree with you that the referendum was a mistake, and a gross abrogation of representative democracy. Before the referendum, most Brits either couldn’t care less about the EU, and even on the day of the referendum, many did not know what the EU was.

 https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechcon ... 1102617510

Even to this day, many have no idea because the topics surrounding the UK’s departure are so complex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi7gSu9ePUc

A lot of people voted Leave to ‘take back control’ of our laws. A month after the referendum I was discussing this with the mother of my close friend who proudly announced that she voted to leave to ‘take back control.’  I asked her what she meant by that, and she said to take back control of our laws. So I asked her to name any law imposed on the UK by the ECJ, or any law that the EU has prevented our sovereign parliament from passing. She couldn’t. She was of course not alone.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 56806.html
 
Like the other 27 members the UK is a sovereign country which makes its own laws. Yes we have to comply with EU regulations to participate in the single market, but these are minimum standards to level the playing field. For example, to prevent one country selling appliances which are unsafe.

Every modern economy that engages with the outside world has to comply with international standards and treaties, for example on climate change. For the UK being in Nato impinges much more on our national sovereignty than being in the EU because of Article 5 (look it up). The most sovereign country in the world is Little Rocket Man’s country.

The UK can of course leave the EU without a deal to ‘take back control’ but that would be an extraordinary act of self-harm. According to the government’s estimates the economy could be 9% smaller in 15 years if we have no deal, with most of that front loaded.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... is__1_.pdf
 
We haven’t even left the EU yet and the shortfall in output is already estimated at 2.3% of GDP as crippling uncertainty crushes animal spirits and corporate investment.

https://www.cer.eu/insights/cost-brexit-september-2018

For the UK the benefits of the single market outweigh the costs by something like 10-1. We make a net contribution of £8bn and the economy is £80-100bn larger as result of our membership.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 50626.html
 
Lord Cockfield, one of Mrs Thatcher’s ministers, who later became a EU commissioner designed the single market in the 1980s in the UK’s interests. In other words so that the UK could export services to the Continent. We also have the Thatcher rebate in place and op outs from the single currency and Schengen. Most outside observers think it is utter madness to leave.

As for Russian meddling it is beyond any reasonable doubt that Putin tried to influence the referendum and has attemped to infiltrate extremist organisations see p50 and 116 of this US Congressional report.
 
https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/medi ... inalRR.pdf

Nigel Farage person of interest in the Mueller Report. The KGB recruited Michael Foot and Jack Jones, possibly Corbyn? Who knows? They had a strong incentive after the Gordievsky humiliation.
 
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/11 ... ller-probe
 
 The UK’s strategy of divide and conquer failed in the Brexit negotiations

https://ec.europa.eu/info/news/eurobaro ... -nov-20_en
 
Yes the EU is far from perfect. The euro project was built on less than rock solid foundations, more detail on request. But no other country wants to leave the EU or the euro. In fact popular support for both is near all time highs.
 
I agree the EU wants to set an example of Britain. I don’t blame them
 
1. Clearly in Britain interest to stay
2. UK leaving is the biggest existential crisis

I have only scratched the surface here.

These issues are far too complex to put to a referendum .. .and evidently for an outsider who thinks he knows a lot about European history.

[Claudius2]

"NEWSFLASH"
XINHUANET, the true news source of the people, has announced that wine blogger and BWE poster Comte Flaneur is joining the Chinese Communist Party as a personal political advisor to Xi Pingpong.
Bureau chief Wang Long reports that Comte is moving from London as it is "too democratic" for him, pointing to the Brexit vote as proof that the proletariat are too stupid and ignorant to be allowed any say in politics, economics and social matters.
"If you allow the people to have a say, they may say or do the wrong thing" says Comte. "It would be much easier and more orderly if they simply did what I told them".
"My move to China will enable me to achieve my ambition of never having to listen to an opposing viewpoint nor needing to justify why I know what is best for everyone", he says.

"Comte's keen sense of ideological purity and a complete lack of interest in the views or needs of the public will be of great value to the further development of China's developing Social Credit system", says Pingpong.
"He will assist in the development of new ways of ensuring authoritarian rule over a public that at times are too brainless to understand that the CCP is saving the people from the unnecessary and tiresome task of thinking, having opinions and making decisions that are not state approved". Pingpong further noted that Comte will commence his service with a study tour of China's re-education camps in Xinjiang to familiarise himself with the learning techniques approved by the CCP.

It is rumored though not yet confirmed by the CCP that Comte will be introducing the same model of esteemed Soviet leader Josef Stalin in relation to monthly quotas for murders, torture, imprisonment and gulags. Apparently, the actual quotas have not been finalised but inside sources say that they are "considerable". Following the model of the Road to Bones, inside sources say that those doing poorly in re-education camps will be used in China's remarkable One Belt, One Road project.
"As with the Road to Bones, China is showing its commitment to recycling by using failed students from its re-education camps as road base in the western provinces". This will save us from having to use many tonnes of aggregate normally used in road construction" says inside sources. Further, China will be aiding its commitment to environmental standards by saving all that food, water and oxygen which otherwise would have been wasted on failed students", says official sources.

In his closing statements, Comte warns the CCP not to be diverted from its great future by listening to the people. " Chairman Mao once said that China will still have big population even if we "lose" half of them". Since the population is now much bigger, China needs to be more ambitious in its plans".

[Comte Flaneur]

Quam parva sapienta regitur mundus

[stefan]

Verum est, sed "sapienta" si sit "sapientia" (puto).

[JimHow]

Venter meus dolet nimium iam desine quaeso.

[AlexR]

You know what this reminds me of?

Old erotica where you read along and then the juicy parts are all in Latin!
(which I unfortunately do not speak).

How do you say ("I drink therefore I am"?) in Latin?

Alex R.

PS:


Lyrics of Monty Python's "Philosopher's Song"

Monty Python's Philosophers Song
Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was very rarely stable,
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar who could drink you under the table,
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was twice as sloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach yer 'bout the raising of the wrist,
Socrates himself was permanently pissed.

John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill,
Plato, they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whisky every day,
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle, Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am."

Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed -
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.

[Claudius2]

Alex
I am presently reading Ulysses by James Joyce.
Been on the "to read" list for some time and over Christmas, I ordered numerous classics.

Joyce does the same thing. Points are made in Latin, and at times, a random selection of European languages mainly Italian or French.
Much of the rest is Irish slang and if my father wasn't Irish I would not have understood them.
He also likes limericks and verse.

I also had to learn a bit of Latin at school so I can follow the rather broken Latin texts.
I am also told by Edinburgh scholars that David Hume actually COULD drink virtually anyone under the table......


Jim
Sorry about the internal pain.
I still get it now 17 years later.

I did not drink for 3-4 months after surgery in 2002 and funny, when I drank wine for the first time after that, I could hardly recognise it!

[stefan]

"Et bibere, ergo sum", Alex. But I like "et bibere, ergo cogito" better even if it loses the English rhyme.

[Racer Chris]

You know what this reminds me of?
...

Do you mind if we call you Bruce?

[AlexR]

Chris,

Sorry, the allusion is lost on me.

Mark, Ian, et al,

Reading the English papers today, a possible way out is emerging. In the next vote in Parliament, Labour will abstain on the understanding that the agreement with the EU will be subject to a referendum - which polls show will be approved.

If things played out this way, there will have been much ado (read: anxiety, fulmination, and brow beating) for very little...

I think the most important thing is for everybody to save face!!!

Best regards,
Alex R.

[Racer Chris]

Chris,

Sorry, the allusion is lost on me.

...

That's what the Aussie philosophers (all named Bruce) asked Michael Baldwin after singing their song.

[Comte Flaneur]

Alex

I wish it was as easy as that but this is entering to Act V Scene V in a Shakesperean tragedy, this is a bitter fight to the wire for the future of the United Kingdom.

I am sorry I can’t answer in Latin but I did get a distinction in Latin at Highgate Junior School ... in 1977...stefan is clearly much more up to speed than I am... I was much better at Latin than French. Sadly until this very day ... and my Latin is a bit rusty after 42 years, but like Eton Fives I have a natural aptitude and yearning for it. Like Eton Fives, two big regrets; but at least I discovered BWE in the early 21st century.

We don’t want to be at the mercy of Trump, Putin, Xi and Modi. They will slaughter us. We need to stick with the EU.

But we have reached a binary stage. Either Parliament votes for Theresa May’s shitty deal or we liberate ourselves into a more enlightened solution. As in the Kyle Wilson amendment.

For example a referendum of her deal versus remaining.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of our Dearly Loved Antipodean Comrade And Great Sage I will provide a couple of links:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rade-hanoi

So much for the ‘special relationship’. Lighthizer will go in hard like he is with China

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Su ... ctives.pdf

I am really sorry - and frankly dismayed - I could not join you in Burgundy but I look forward to your report Alex. I hope I am forgiven and can join you and Ian in 2020.

My arrival in California Colorado was predicated on a strong conviction that the UK would not end up leaving on the 29 March, which has been reinforced given indications this will be delayed beyond March 29.Everything is booked and paid for.

The Brits have descended into farcical WW2 analogies - food and medicine shortages? We plucky Brits can get through that. We survived the Blitz you know? It is surreal and absolutely bonkers.

[AKR]

I think the idea that Lighthizer will 'go after' the UK is silly.

He's asking the Chinese to play by rules.

That's hard since they're a fundamentally lawless, brutal society.

The UK is - like the US - a country with a long history of lawful conduct.

Both sides behave properly.

Govts in these countries do not send their prior leaders to the gulag.

(yet!)

[Claudius2]

Arvind
There are plenty of people in both countries (USA and UK) who would happily gulag, torture, imprison and/or murder anybody and everybody who does not completely accept their political views.
I do not just mean Antifa and their ilk, but it is now common for people to call for the arrest of or attacks on anyone who they even vaguely imagine may have a different opinion.

Even over here in SIngapore, we hear daily of the attacks on MAGA hat wearers (which incidentally included a Chinese tourist who bought a MAGA hat thinking he was trying to be a co-operative tourist and show respect) and civil disputes which lead to violence, looting and personal attacks and injuries if someone dares to disagree with them.

The reason I quote Mao's red guards is that I see the same underlying attitudes in the west.
The red guards actually had limited real authority but took action based on their own vindictive, envious and self-indulgent views.
Much of the history of China - texts, monuments, personal historic artefacts, buildings, temples, whatever, were totally destroyed based on individual whims. Pol Pot in Cambodia was even better - he de-populated the cities and forced everyone to collective farms to starve to death and at least one third of the population died. But the difference was that Pol Pot acted by decree yet Mao left the red guards largely to their own (though controlling a huge country is much harder than a small one) and they targeted anyone who they did not like. This lead to the 'big poster' denouncements, "struggle sessions" and ordinary people and particularly educated people being labelled as "capitalist roaders" and "enemies of the people's struggle". Few of them ever survived the gulags, prisons and torture. Or the rabid mob simply beat them to death.
But Mao and his advisors allowed them to get away with it as the red guards were the "useful idiots" of the regime that wanted absolute power over everyone's life.

If we cannot have a rational, evidenced based discourse about any topic without slander, insults, moralistic slogans and hyperbole, then we may as well go back and live in tribal societies.
If many in your own country get their way politically, that is all there will be.
My point is not a criticism of any country nor any individual but an appeal for rational discussion and evidence- based decisions.

I was also a University student and lecturer for 36 years of my life, having attended 4 Universities as a students and teaching at several.
Even the institutions that are supposedly the leaders in rational thought have given away intellectual rigour and rational arguments in favour of dogma and rhetoric.

The older generation in most of Asia are well aware of the horrors of totalitarian regimes and the suffering that comes with it.
If we forget those horrors of authoritarianism we just end up with the same model.

[Comte Flaneur]

I think the idea that Lighthizer will 'go after' the UK is silly.

He's asking the Chinese to play by rules.

That's hard since they're a fundamentally lawless, brutal society.

The UK is - like the US - a country with a long history of lawful conduct.

Both sides behave properly.

Govts in these countries do not send their prior leaders to the gulag.

(yet!)

Yes Arv it seems silly, ridiculous even, but this is the Trump administration, and with Lighthizer the idea is to use the US’s superior bargaining power to beat up on other countries one on one. That is why they don’t want to deal with the EU because the EU have the best negotiators. They are alrady beating up on Japan.

So a couple of things.

I agree that China needs to play by the rules, and so do the Dems and everyone else. And this is increasingly about tech, and especially the AI arms race. But the US is trying to do things which will impinge on the sovereignty of countries with which it trades and other countries cannot possibly accept that. For example the US wants to dictate the terms of any deal we have with China.

The second thing is that link I posted with the US negotiating objectives. Take a look at it. It is very aggressive. It is the same for China, the EU and the UK. The EU and China at least can stand up to US bullying, but we are too small and too weak. The US is using its soft power, and dollar diplomacy, which could end up with the dollar collapsing as the rest of the world reduces its reliance on the dollar. If Trump gets re-elected this is a plausible risk.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 87b5579f64

The Trump administration is doing a massive amount of damage to the global economy. Wanton vandalism. US lobbies are looking at the UK and licking their lips. We are going to get slaughtered. Read the article.

[AKR]

I read about 2/3 of the HuffPost piece. They are more prone to hyperbole than authoritative analysis of trade policy. The agricultural stuff in particular is silly. Humans have been modifying what they grow and breed for 10000 years. Appropriate disclosure/transparency, more market competition, and reduction of farm subsidies would be good for both nations. I really doubt the US has different food safety metrics than other developed nations -- by that I mean poisonings, disease outbreaks, tainted inputs etc. Nothing is perfect, but I'd rather have food grown stateside than from lots of other parts of the world. And at the same time, the US can drop its fences against foreign food imports, like unpasteurized cheeses or raw lards etc.

Seriously - both nations are rational, thoughtful places. They don't have great enmity between them. There will be fits and starts but they should be able to come up with some bilateral agreement that is better for both of them than what we have now. I'd love to see more competition in TATL flights, and more competition for Heathrow gates & runway slots.

The biggest argument the US has for treating the UK fairly is that it has the potential to be a big customer. The EU seems to be doing their darndest to fire their biggest (maybe) customer, and the US could/should love to step in their stead. We'd love to sell you more goopy $100 Napa wine to replace all that $20 Froggy wine!!!

[Comte Flaneur]

I wish I could share your optimism Arv, but I can’t. Even when I don my rose-tinted specs!

Btw as a point of order. The EU is not kicking us out of their club. We chose to leave.

[Claudius2]

Arv
Rather than buying lots of Napa Cabs, Australia will be sending over tankerloads more of our wine.
And they do not have to pay $100 for it unless they want the most famous wines.

Australia is still a member of the Commonwealth - which the EU largely put paid to, and after Brexit, Australia and NZ were very keen to offer support for and trading rights for the UK.
And that is a simple fact of life. The Bordeaux producers are not going to miss out on one of their major markets, which incidentally was also a major market before the EU was even thought of.

The simple reason that nations treat is other fairly is that it makes sense.
When fairness is not a primary consideration, you simply have a triumph of politics over reason.

[Comte Flaneur]

I am really reassured that we have the possibility of signing fast track trade agreements with our former colonial outposts. I thought we were in trouble there for a minute. Australia accounts for 1% of our trade, so am sure that will make a big difference. New Zealand roughly the same size as Belgium accounts for one twentieth of the trade we do with Belgium.

[Claudius2]

Comte
If you would pull your head out of your ass for a few seconds you would be able to work out that Australia is by far the largest supplier of wine to the UK at over 300 million bottles a year and current data puts France at 180 M bottles (2016). So clearly you are not the only Pom who likes Grange. Australia is also the buggest supplier to my adopted country. And if the Brexit deal is a mess then you may be seeing more Yellowtail in your supermarkets as us Aussies are pleased that someone OS is actually prepared to drink it. And pay for the pleasure.
If you bother to check the point of the first post on this thread it was about wine not your ego and the rest of the wine producing world stands ready to fill any gaps in demand in the UK.
In the meantime you may like to add a side visit to the Beijing military hospitals for the annual harvesting of Falun Gong practitioner organs but the CCP assures me that their disappearances and murder is for their own benefit.

[DavidG]

Mark, BWE culture is pretty loose when it comes to thread drift. Talking about non-wine effects of Brexit is hardly even a drift in the first place. And it looks to me like you were the one who expanded the scope of the thread beyond wine to all things Brexit, here: http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... 258#p71320

I find Ian's reasoned responses supported by cites of respected publications more convincing than your anger-infused loose associations and ad hominem attacks. You may have some valid points to make but it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[AKR]

I have been embargoing Yellow Tail for a long time.

[DavidG]

Back to wine...

Will Brexit interfere with a trip through the Chunnel to a wine shop in Calais to load up the boot with wine?

[DavidG]

I have been embargoing Yellow Tail for a long time.

The brand name Yellow Tail always brings to mind incontinence in the elderly. Surely not what they were going for but maybe not that far off from reality.

[JimHow]

Robert Parker speaks very highly of Yellow Tail.

[DavidG]

My palate has diverged a bit from RP's.
In another decade it may converge.

[JimHow]

He feels that, at $7, Yellow Tail is an "incredible value":

https://www.foodandwine.com/articles/th ... tralia-now

[Chateau Vin]

Robert Parker speaks very highly of Yellow Tail.

Yeah. Probably, Yellowtail has stopped dunking the oak chips in the wine, and instead, must have started using real oak barrels in the wine making process...

[DavidG]

Two Buck Chuck is another "value wine." I’ve tasted one or two that are less vile than Yellow Tail, but in most cases I’d drink water or soda before drinking them.

[stefan]

I never tasted Yellowtail. Does it complement Hamachi?

[DavidG]

Only 2007 CduP from magnum is better with sushi.

It’s been a long time, the memory has thankfully faded.
Yellowtail is offensively oaky if you’re sensitive to that.
Otherwise utterly bland and boring.
It’s like the Coors Light of the wine world.

[Chateau Vin]

Only 2007 CduP from magnum is better with sushi.

It’s been a long time, the memory has thankfully faded.
Yellowtail is offensively oaky if you’re sensitive to that.
Otherwise utterly bland and boring.
It’s like the Coors Light of the wine world.

Atleast Coors' claim to fame is that they use fresh water from the rockies. Maybe Yellowtail uses "freshly cut oak chips"...

"2 buck Chuck" vs. "10 buck Tail" for the value proposition...My A$$

[Comte Flaneur]

Comte
If you would pull your head out of your ass for a few seconds you would be able to work out that Australia is by far the largest supplier of wine to the UK at over 300 million bottles a year and current data puts France at 180 M bottles (2016). So clearly you are not the only Pom who likes Grange. Australia is also the buggest supplier to my adopted country. And if the Brexit deal is a mess then you may be seeing more Yellowtail in your supermarkets as us Aussies are pleased that someone OS is actually prepared to drink it. And pay for the pleasure.
If you bother to check the point of the first post on this thread it was about wine not your ego and the rest of the wine producing world stands ready to fill any gaps in demand in the UK.
In the meantime you may like to add a side visit to the Beijing military hospitals for the annual harvesting of Falun Gong practitioner organs but the CCP assures me that their disappearances and murder is for their own benefit.

Claudius

You didn’t read through my post and missed my point. You said:

“Australia is still a member of the Commonwealth - which the EU largely put paid to, and after Brexit, Australia and NZ were very keen to offer support for and trading rights for the UK.

And I pointed out to you that Australia only accounts for 1% of total UK trade - the exact figure is 1.1% - which in my book is negligible. NZ accounts for 0.2% of our trade approximately one twentieth of Belgium.Countries like Australia are not going to make up for the loss of EU markets in a hard Brexit.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustry ... 2017-02-21

The reason is ‘gravity’. Look it up.

So it is all very nice to have encouraging words from our old colonial outposts but the gesture is pretty meaningless.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that our supermarket shelves are infested with commoditised dross from down under.

I am still looking forward to your reply to my post from a week ago, with references to support your arguments.

Your previous posts displayed an astonishing ignorance of the EU, it’s raison d’etre and the Irish question.

You really need to get out more and read more - even go back to school - before spouting your ill-informed opinions, boorish insults and abuse. It diminishes you even further.

[JimHow]

No need to be calling each other names, I think there are enough insults coming from both sides.
Any more and I'll delete the thread.
Thanks.

[Chateau Vin]

No need to be calling each other names, I think there are enough insults coming from both sides.
Any more and I'll delete the thread.
Thanks.

Come on, Jim...You are gonna delete my love affair with the '10 buck Tail' ? You hurt my feelings, Jim. So much so for the Benevolent Dictator...

[Comte Flaneur]

No need to be calling each other names, I think there are enough insults coming from both sides.
Any more and I'll delete the thread.
Thanks.

Perhaps you didn’t read the thread Jim