2018 EP Buying Thread

[NoahR]

Okay fine. Ordered 6-packs of Les Carmes HB and Calon Ségur at $90-100 based on Vinous. Hope the bottled wine is as interesting as the barrel samples...

What are folks ordering?

[tiesface]

I hammered Les Carmes HB.

That may be my only 2018 purchase. Maybe a couple of 750s or splits to assess out of bottle.

[JCNorthway]

I may order a few of the "qpr"s that are on the inexpensive side, and that will be relatively early drinkers. I was kind of surprised to get an offer with several wines in the 91-95 point spread offered for around $20-25. That is tempting.

[JimHow]

I'm out.
I'll pick up a mixed case for early consumption when they appear on the shelves in NH circa 2021.
I'm gonna buy about 200 bottles from 2016 to round out my cellar, and that is going to be about all she wrote for me.

[jckba]

The daily offers are starting to wear me down but as of right now I am still holding strong.

And Noah, I do think that both the Calon Segur and Les Carmes Haut-Brion are savvy pickups that make sense buying on futures as they seem to have the buzz and will likely end up costing more upon arrival in 2021.

[tiesface]

Agree Calon is a savvy buy. 14.9% abv is scaring me off.

Many writers have noticed the alcohol is "masked" by appropriate acidity, and that the wines do not taste reflective of their technical components. I'm skeptical. What do you think BWE - are you buying it?

I went long on Les Carmes as a savvy buy + 13.75% abv and sounds like it will stay in my wheelhouse from a flavor profile. I'm sensitive to alc - anything over 14-14.25 degrees and I'm concerned the heat will be bothersome. What do you think?

[DavidG]

Nothing.
Too old.
Cellar is too full.
Any Bordeaux purchases going forward would be backfilling.

If I were younger, I’d still pass on en primeur and buy on release. I prefer to see what people are saying about finished wines before committing. I don’t think there is a significant enough chance for a financial advantage to buying en primeur. That said, these are the ones that would have my attention now, based on the early reports, my experiences with past vintages, and expectations for costs I can justify:

Montrose
Meyney
Pichon Baron
Pichon Lalande
Pontet Canet
Lynch Bages
Leoville Barton
Branaire Ducru
Talbot
Rauzan Segla
Siran
Carmes Haut Brion (a new one for me)
Haut Brion (if I hit the lottery)
Haut Bailly
Conseillante
VCC (aspirational given pricing)

[AKR]

I'm passing. I think paying up front is a mugs game. Maybe the last year it made sense was 2014.

========

My SO had one of those professional closet organizer people come by yesterday to do some 'editing' of our crap.

(The lady drives a 7 series!)

The area where I keep some of me swill is at grave risk of being 'edited'

Many of my old T shirts were sent to the great rag factory in the sky in this closet slaughter.

I'm sure she was especially happy to cull my Dick Cheney 2004 one.

So I can't risk any further encroachment into Her share of the closet/storage confines at home.

[Comte Flaneur]

Arv as long as the SO’s Big Beamer-driving culler doesn’t cull your ‘Let’s Make America Grate Again’ baseball cap.

I was reading Jane Anson’s review of the 2018 vintage in the latest Decanter, and I started to get twitchy. I am not sure if she is a sound critic but I think she probably is ok.

The prices in Blighty haven’t been ridiculous, though probably not compelling. But Pichon Lalande is trying to seduce me. JA rated it higher than Latour.

Sociando Mallet and Meyney as in 2016 are big stars for not a lot of money.

My David G (non-FG) list for future generations is very similar to his and would be (remember it is important to plant the trees for your children and their children):

Sociando Mallet
Meyney
Clerc Milon
Pichon Lalande
Lynch Bages
Leoville Barton (it is always on the list)
Talbot (kudos J-M Laporte)
Palmer
Rauzan Segla
d’Issan
Haut-Bailly
SHL
Pavie Maquin
Probably quite a few other St-Es
VCC
Trotanoy
Conseillante

[DavidG]

A good report from Panos Kakaviatos:
https://wine-chronicles.com/blog/bdx18- ... hedonists/

High alcohol, low acidity (by the numbers) appears to be a common thread. I’m more interested in what’s in the glass than on a technical data sheet, but I know one or two AFWEs that would turn up their noses at these numbers. Perhaps another reason to hold off until able to taste.

[AKR]

[Comte Flaneur]

Thanks DG for flagging g Panos’s excellent report

[AKR]

K&L on the VOTC 2018

https://www.klwines.com/staff/3005pdf/M ... rdeaux.pdf

[DavidG]

K&L on the VOTC 2018

https://www.klwines.com/staff/3005pdf/M ... rdeaux.pdf

My favorite line from that piece:

2018 Angélus, St-Émilion ($349.99) Bravo to Stéphanie de Boüard- Rivoal for being reasonable on her pricing!

[AKR]

Rimmerman's take on 2018
=============
2018 Bordeaux Musing: The New Classic?

Dear Friends,

So far, I’ve stayed out of the 2018 Bordeaux commentary chase but most you knew I would not be silent forever.

I have many thoughts on the vintage but I want to wait a bit longer to see how some of the upper-level wines evolve in the early stages before I make a definitive proclamation on the year and on certain wines in specific. It’s a polarizing campaign for sure (due to high alcohol and a verging toward the ripe end of the scale) but there are exceptional exceptions throughout both Left and Right with certain satellite districts coming out of the woodwork to produce stunning, extractive and rich (but still somehow fresh and tannic) wines that you will want in your cellar – especially if your palate moves toward Bolgheri (Ornellaia) or a hybrid of mountain Napa/Sonoma from a ripe year meshed with modern Bordeaux.

As luck would have it, one of the stars of 2018 is offered below

So...

As the first sniff and sips of 2018 are now in the rear-view mirror, the question abounds...is this a “great” Bordeaux vintage?

That depends.

As I always say at the current stage of a new Bordeaux vintage, it is FAR TOO EARLY to tell anything but it is never too early to overgeneralize so that’s what I’m going to do.

Here’s my synopsis of 2018 in Bordeaux:

• The vintage is not uniform – not even in the same districts. The heavy rain and subsequent mildew during the first half of the growing season followed by warm to hot temperatures and next to no rain during the second half of the season made your terroir scream with delight or scream with fear depending on EXACTLY where you sat (see the next bullet point).

• Those with limestone or clay terroir generally faired the best due to the VERY warm temperatures during the second half of the growing season that leaned toward 2003/2009 but ended up closer to 2010. The limestone and clay gave much needed moisture – the opposite of heavy gravel that drained away what little moisture was available...except in the sites with the oldest and most mature vines with long root networks.

• The difference in quality from east to west/north to south/up and down in the same district is one of the most extreme you will taste (in the case of Saint-Emilion – that means the plateau “up” versus the valley “down”). On the Left Bank, that means west (away from the water actually faired BETTER in many cases than the most famous vineyard plots closer to the water’s edge with heavy gravel. Clay and sand near the water’s edge faired better).

• What grape loves clay? Merlot.

• What grape loves limestone? Cabernet Franc.

• 2018 is a vintage where small family estates are set to shine on the Right Bank as well as in the somewhat maligned far Northern Medoc (an area that had one of the best vintages of the modern era). The far satellite regions of the Right Bank (northeast, west and southeast of Saint-Emilion) produced spectacular “modern” bargains as well from many small estates in areas such as the Castillon. In the Northern Medoc, look to Civrac and surrounding towns with results that should bring great notoriety to the region for very little $. The reason is simple in both Right and Left cases: clay, sand and limestone – Merlot-heavy terroir that is often looked down on but no one is laughing now.

• Alcohol is mostly high on both the Left and Right Banks (but not every wine). Keep in mind, alcohol never dissipates - fruit does. In general, 14.0-14.5% is the norm (some are eve higher). Those that generally find Bordeaux “too thin” should run to their favorite futures outlet for a nice selection of 2018’s.

• Quantities are down.

• The king grape in 2018 is also the queen: Merlot (followed closely by Cabernet Franc).

• The top Region of 2018: Saint-Estephe followed closely by Saint-Emilion (upper limestone-heavy reaches, not valley floor).

• Hierarchy of Left Bank: follow the compass from north (Saint-Estephe) to south (Pessac) and that about sums it up (Pauillac and Saint-Julien are almost as good as Saint-Estephe but the difference between west/east noted above is critical – also, keep in mind that just because the location of an estate is where you know it to be, that does not mean they produce their Grand Vin from the vineyards that surround the property – most of the top properties now own or lease vineyards ALL OVER their respective appellations which gives them an opportunity to use fruit from the far western corner of say, Pauillac (due to the location being slightly cooler in 2018), as well as limestone pockets that may surround the estate – this was never more important than in 2018.

• Hierarchy of the Right Bank: Saint-Emilion is mostly superior to Pomerol but certain terroirs of Pomerol were also incredible (there is no uniformity). Keep in mind outlier district comments noted above and also those produced from Merlot/Cabernet Franc.

Summation:

In an all too general and “do not rely on this” summation as things will undoubtedly change over the course of the next two years prior to bottling...

2018 in Bordeaux is the ultimate modern hybrid vintage of all things from all over the world. It’s a mix of every Cabernet and Merlot growing district in the world – the perfect year for the “here and now” consumer (with 10-20+ years of patience) that wishes for Napa, Bolgheri, South Africa, Coonawarra, Walla Walla, Sonoma and, yes, Bordeaux in the same sip...all with the true and precise terroir expression of authentic Bordeaux (not a New World “copy” of the original). It’s a dark, serious, skin-heavy year that will not be for the tender (similar to 2010) but it also has a little more joie de vivre than 2010 did at the same stage and more sap. The alcohols are high so this is no cerebral and classic 2016 (or 1985 or 2001), but it isn't 2003 either (the style is closer to 2009 meets 2015 meets 2010 but it’s individually not as good as that trio). 2018 cannot be compared to any other year because of the current skill set of the Bordelaise and because of its massive, oozing extractive force with just enough limestone and clay-provided freshness. The general populous will swoon for 2018, which bodes very well for eventual (VERY HIGH) auction values 20+ years from now. On the other hand, classicists will use the “hmmm?” emoji more often than not but who’s to say that 2018 isn’t closer to the “New Classic” that a warmer climate Bordeaux has become? On the other hand, if you consider your palate from the “12.5%” side of the fence, you may wish to stay somewhat away.

For the rest of you...

1959 meets 1989?

We’ll see.

[DavidG]

Seems less hype than the usual Rimmerman pitch. The cynic in me believes he’s saving his best adjectives for the specific wines he’s going to offer.

[DavidG]

I've become less and less of a fan of the critics and their scores over the years, but they are thriving without my adoration.

For the numbers crunchers, points chasers, and pruriently interested rubberneckers, LivEx has published their top 98 Bordeaux from 2018 based on the averages of a bunch of critics. I have no idea which critics made the cut. The story is here:https://www.liv-ex.com/2019/05/latour-2 ... e-vintage/

I've pasted the top 50 here:

2-4 copy.jpg (317.85 KiB) Viewed 1822 times

And for those who really want to get lost in the numbers, there's BordOverview. Have at it!

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

Do the "top" 50 or 100 wines, or their rankings, change significantly from vintage to vintage? I doubt it.

[marcs]

I'm having no trouble resisting 2018. I am out due to age (51) but did end up buying a mixed case of 2016s because the vintage style sounded so intriguing and presumably I will live until my late 60s to enjoy them. But yet another new VOTC which is hot weather and has a ton of alcohol? Hard pass.

One thing about backfilling right now is that there are a bunch of good recent vintages widely available in the full range of styles. 2009 and 2015, full-bodied and ripe. 2008 and 2014, slender, classical, and well priced. 2010 and 2016, big but structured. 2012, right bank sleeper. I feel no need whatsoever to invest in anything new.

[stefan]

Marc, why are you betting on dying before you are 70? Heck, if I had done that just because I got esophageal cancer at age 57 I wouldn't have anything to drink now (I am 74 and the 5 year survival rate for esophageal cancer is 20%).

[JimHow]

Do the "top" 50 or 100 wines, or their rankings, change significantly from vintage to vintage? I doubt it.

Agreed.

[Blanquito]

Nothing.
Too old.
Cellar is too full.
Any Bordeaux purchases going forward would be backfilling.

This for me too... 2800 bottles and holding... Gonna turn 50 soon... I like my wines fully mature.

Looking my cellar over, 2009 was probably my last big vintage splurge. I bought zero from 2010-2013 and only a smattering of 14, 15 and 16.

[DavidG]

I'm having no trouble resisting 2018. I am out due to age (51) but did end up buying a mixed case of 2016s because the vintage style sounded so intriguing and presumably I will live until my late 60s to enjoy them. But yet another new VOTC which is hot weather and has a ton of alcohol? Hard pass.

One thing about backfilling right now is that there are a bunch of good recent vintages widely available in the full range of styles. 2009 and 2015, full-bodied and ripe. 2008 and 2014, slender, classical, and well priced. 2010 and 2016, big but structured. 2012, right bank sleeper. I feel no need whatsoever to invest in anything new.

Great post. I agree with all of it except the dying part. I’m 63 with a god-awful family history of CAD but I still bought 2 cases of 2016s and 4 cases of 2015s. Feelin' lucky. I told Orlando Bobby he could have them If I die before drinking them, but only if he drinks the Pavie and Angelus first.

[DavidG]

Marc, why are you betting on dying before you are 70? Heck, if I had done that just because I got esophageal cancer at age 57 I wouldn't have anything to drink now (I am 74 and the 5 year survival rate for esophageal cancer is 20%).

Can’t argue with a math professor!

Father Stefan is (thank God!) our resident statistical anomaly.

[Chateau Vin]

Nothing.
Too old.
Cellar is too full.
Any Bordeaux purchases going forward would be backfilling.

This for me too... 2800 bottles and holding... Gonna turn 50 soon... I like my wines fully mature.

Looking my cellar over, 2009 was probably my last big vintage splurge. I bought zero from 2010-2013 and only a smattering of 14, 15 and 16.

I am surprised you didn't buy any 2010s. I thought it is your type of vintage that requires more blanquitos than any other vintage...Don't want to be part of vintage of the century?

[AKR]

+1 on the above for 2010 & Blanquito.

[Blanquito]

Fair questions per 2010. After all of the 2005s I bought, the thought of laying down another vintage that might require 30-40 years to hit full maturity was not a turn on. Moreover, much of what I read about the style of 2010 -- super high alcohol, weird acids, big hard tannins -- didn't appeal to me. Gilman's take on the 2010 made it sound like Frankenwine. All told, it sounded like Bordeaux on steroids. Finally, the prices were and are an insult for those who can remember (like it was yesterday) buying the 1986 Gruaud Larose for $25 (in 1995), the 1996 GPL for $35 (in 2004), et cetera.

If Parker et al. were right about 2010, I can always backfill and save money in real terms when I do. This is true for all new vintages of Bordeaux of course, except maybe the 2014s: let someone else shell out the capital and store it for me for 20 years, and the try to sell it at loss. I mean, the 2005s are now 14 years old and most of those which didn't suddenly become a darling on the wine boards (see Figeac, Chateau as Exhibit A) have not budged even in nominal prices, let alone real ones.

[Nicklasss]

Blanquito, you desperately needs a few bottle of 2010 Cantemerle. It won't take years to get great, and it is a very complex, convenient and slightly impressive red Bordeaux for the price.

BTW, i don't understand who can say the 2010 aren't the top class because the Revue des Vins de France staff called 2010 "unratable" because too great!

Nic

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

BTW, i don't understand who can say the 2010 aren't the top class because the Revue des Vins de France staff called 2010 "unrattable" because too great!

Nic

A couple of times in the past I have suggested that there is no reason to stop the Parker ratings scale at 100. Certainly such unratable wines could be rated 101 points, 102 points, etc. In fact, I believe it is inescapable because at this time the average EP wine seems to score 95-97 points from at least one established critic.

If that turns you off I suggest we convert to a 200-point or perhaps even a 1000-point scale. That allows for further, finer discrimination between these top scoring bottles. I think it would be awesome to own a wine that scored, say, 987 points.

[Blanquito]

Ok, I just checked and I have more 2010 than I recalled! In fact, I have more 2010 than 2014. I knew I had some 2010 Cantemerle, but somehow I've amassed these 2010s:
Cantemerle 16 bottles
Gloria 8 (all half bottles)
d'Issan 7 (4 1/2 bottles)
Talbot 7
Dominique 6
Grand Puy Lacoste 5

It sure felt like a lot less I think because, checking my records, I bought these in dribbles and drabs at auctions over an extended period.

I can report that I have only 2 half bottles of the 2011 Canon, and none of any 2012 and 2012 Bordeaux.

[Blanquito]

A couple of times in the past I have suggested that there is no reason to stop the Parker ratings scale at 100. Certainly such unratable wines could be rated 101 points, 102 points, etc. In fact, I believe it is inescapable because at this time the average EP wine seems to score 95-97 points from at least one established critic.

If that turns you off I suggest we convert to a 200-point or perhaps even a 1000-point scale. That allows for further, finer discrimination between these top scoring bottles. I think it would be awesome to own a wine that scored, say, 987 points.

LOL. I like it. And of course like many funny things, there's a lot of truth in this.

[DavidG]

A couple of times in the past I have suggested that there is no reason to stop the Parker ratings scale at 100. Certainly such unratable wines could be rated 101 points, 102 points, etc. In fact, I believe it is inescapable because at this time the average EP wine seems to score 95-97 points from at least one established critic.

If that turns you off I suggest we convert to a 200-point or perhaps even a 1000-point scale. That allows for further, finer discrimination between these top scoring bottles. I think it would be awesome to own a wine that scored, say, 987 points.

LOL. I like it. And of course like many funny things, there's a lot of truth in this.

Just imagine if Buzz Lightyear took up wine reviewing: "To infinity and beyond!"

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

A couple of times in the past I have suggested that there is no reason to stop the Parker ratings scale at 100. Certainly such unratable wines could be rated 101 points, 102 points, etc. In fact, I believe it is inescapable because at this time the average EP wine seems to score 95-97 points from at least one established critic.

If that turns you off I suggest we convert to a 200-point or perhaps even a 1000-point scale. That allows for further, finer discrimination between these top scoring bottles. I think it would be awesome to own a wine that scored, say, 987 points.

LOL. I like it. And of course like many funny things, there's a lot of truth in this.

Just imagine if Buzz Lightyear took up wine reviewing: "To infinity and beyond!"

When you have already reached the sky, infinity is the next stop.

[JimHow]

Wait til the Webb telescope goes on line....
We will truly see Creation.