FRANCE 2020

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:07 am

Ian, I didn't get an email, are you sure you sent it to the right address? Last email we exchanged was about my visit to London in July.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:41 pm

Hi Tim I sent it to your gmail.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:21 am

Hi Ian, just sent you an email. I didn't receive anything in my gmail account, not sure why...

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:49 pm

If this will happen, someone needs to be in charge of organizing. As I said, I cannot do that this year, my workload and the uncertainty of location etc. doesn't allow it. I can help provide ideas as well as provide information from last time (bus company used, other logistics done, etc).

Basically this requires: negotiating and choosing a bus company, reaching out to chateaux, communicating with chateaux over number of guests, convincing the chateaux that we are important enough for them to host a large group, finding chateaux willing to do a meal, communicating dietary requirements, meal choice, negotiating chateaux meal prices, telling chateaux that they are too expensive and so we need to cancel, figuring out the order of where and when to visit and sorting that out against the availability of the chateaux, handling the invoicing and payment to chateaux, collecting money in dollars and transferring into euros, chasing down people for payment, fixing a budget (in two currencies managing the risk of currency fluctuations) and making the budget work (people won't commit until they know how much it costs, and chateaux won't tell you how much it costs until they know how many people are visiting), managing individual needs and expectations (people want to do partial visits but don't want to pay for the stuff they don't participate in), managing cancellations and refunds, filling the restaurant gaps and negotiating with the restaurants including deciding what wines to buy in advance, finding BYOB places, organizing the little stuff (water, wine glasses, tram tickets), arranging gifts for the chateaux (each time we did it personalized with BWE), communicating regularly with the BWE participants, building a program, helping people with transport from Paris to Bordeaux, finding a hotel and negotiating a rate with the hotel, and a million other little things, all while keeping it affordable so that we don't exclude anyone who really wants to go.

Another option is to hire a company to do the organization. There are a few companies that organize multi-day tours of bordeaux.

Anyone volunteering?

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:14 pm

Just as a pricing comparison, we did six nights at $1400 plus accommodation (around $150 a night, so total $2300 for singles and $1950 for couples) to visit 22 Chateaux with a personalized experience, and there is a professional group tour available to do 9 nights to visit 22 Chateaux available for $5900 (plus single supplement) with more favorable exchange rates than we had.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:13 pm

Timmy, I had assumed Alex would get involved but perhaps I shouldn't have been so presumptuous.
It's certainly not fair for me to have "volunteered" Alex before even asking him.
I would say that if we can't have our usual local organization involved we should probably just scrub the project, it is too much to do from afar.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:38 pm

Most of the above was what I did, and I couldn't have done it without Alex. Alex's role included: initial research and obtaining proposals for the bus companies, writing to all the chateaux via physical letters in French, calling in favors on many of those chateaux, being primary correspondent for the majority of the chateau in french, including phone calls, being a sounding board for decisions to be made and participating in joint decisions, being feet on the ground during the week, receiving shipments and packages that would be used during the week, and of course donating his vast expertise in the region, plus a bunch of other things that I am forgetting. I think it would be extremely difficult for any one person to take on all the tasks that Alex and I shared. We worked well together because we had a division of labor, and each of us played to his strengths.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:00 pm

>>
it would be extremely difficult for any one person to take on all the tasks
>>

Tim is understating it: Doing what either of what Tim or Alex did was extremely difficult. Doing both would have been horrendous.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:33 pm

I'm really not trying to be a Debbie Downer on the idea, but we need to inject some realism on the scope of the project. If someone is willing to step up and take on the organizing role, I'm happy to coach him/her. And I don't want to speak for Alex (and I haven't spoken to him about this so I have no clue if he is even reading this thread), I'm confident he would be willing to aide, but probably in a more limited fashion. This requires other people to become the primary interfaces to many of the chateaux. We already have Jim and MichaelP reaching out to their contacts. In 2005, there were five of us that divided the labor of reaching out to Chateaux. In 2015, most of that went to Alex.

In summary, it's doable. But don't underestimate the heavy lifting required, which someone would need to take on to make it work.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:07 am

I’m more than happy to take on some of the organizations.....but I simply cannot do the week of March 15th. It’s St Patrick’s day that week.....for Gods sake.
I can do any other week in the year!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:07 am

It is well documented that St Patrick was a wino even if his day is nowadays associated with drinking beer. In fact, that is why Catholics are allowed to drink on St Patrick's day while fasting during Lent.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:33 am

Ha, ya I agree, for sure but that was the 5th century......no snakes, no Norman’s yet....& most importantly no other island invaders.

2020 ....one needs to work & maximize

I was all set for this trip but someone decided on the only week in the year I cannot do. St Patrick or not I simply cannot be there that week.
Aside. it’s cold as hell in bdx in late March, the original plan was late April or May....much more pleasant in Bordeaux.
Either way cannot do that week.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:12 pm

Sorry, CJD, I'm not sure we have ever met you?
We have been organizing our annual conventions for 20 years now.
I appreciate your enthusiasm but there are many factors that go into the organization of these events, among them the convenience of particular dates for long-time participants on BWE. We have organized two prior Bordeaux trips, mainly with the efforts of Alex and Tim.
Without the participation of those two local BWEers I do not feel completely comfortable proceeding ahead.

For me personally, like DavidG, I have frankly cut way back on my alcohol consumption and at age 60 I'm just not capable of weeklong wine revelry at two dozen chateaux like we did in 2015. I was exhausted after that week and that was four years ago, long before the health problems I suffered this past winter. I'm currently probably drinking one-tenth as much as I did back at that time. My other limitations, of course, are my criminal trial schedule, including this very time consuming murder case in Alaska.

I heard back from my friend Howard Kwok at Tour St. Christophe. He says they have 14 rooms available at Bellefont-Belcier (and 2 more at Tour St. Christophe). We stayed in the city of Bordeaux last time although didn't really experience much of the city other than one evening. I'm not sure whether it makes sense logistically to stay on the right bank but it seems to me that, with the number of couples involved, 14 rooms would be just about the right number of accomodations for our group. Howard says he can offer us a "good rate," I'm not sure what that would mean but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

Here is Howard's email response to me:

Hi Jim,

It's good to hear from you! Thank you again for driving all the way down to Cambridge that day. Also, it's very nice to e-meet Tim and Ian. I believe I have met Alex in 2013, but nice to meet you again.

So nice to hear that you and the group will be visiting Bordeaux next year. To tell you the truth March 2020 is still quite away and I can't say if I will be there. However, since Primeur starts end of the month, I should be able to come a bit earlier to meet you guys. Once you have your dates set, please let me know and I'll do my best to be there.

Regardless, you should come visit our chateaux in Saint Emilion. I've cced Jean Christophe our GM, who knows Jeff Leve quite well and I'm sure will be more than happy to meet you. Also, Chateau Tour Saint Christophe is really worth visiting as we've done a lot of work to restore the property. It has an ancient terraces over the Saint Emilion plateau, and offers a spectacular view. We can do a tour of the property, and if interested, have lunch on the property.

Separately, we have 14 rooms in our Grand Cru Classé Chateau Bellefont Belcier. It was recently renovated in time for my wedding 2 months ago, and comes with a tennis court and swimming pool, though the temperature may be too chilly to swim in March. Tour Saint Christophe also has 2 guest rooms so together we can provide up to 16 guest rooms. Rachida (also cced) runs our wine tourism business, and I'll make sure they give you a good rate.

Let us know if any of the above interests you. I've attached some photos of Tour Saint Christophe and Bellefont Belcier for your reference.

Best,

Howard

image.png
SG__410.jpgJ.jpg
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JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:33 pm

A video of Bellefont-Belcier. I just started watching it but it looks interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHZLVVCDoY

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 pm

BD:
I wouldn't let Tim's accurate description of all the work to set up a trip cause you to cancel the whole idea. That's what it took in 2005 and 2015. But I think if enough of us pitch in, and importantly coordinate, that we could get a good roster set up for a group of 15-20 people. I am obviously happy to contribute some time and effort to do so. We just need more volunteers.
Michael-P

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 pm

It might be fun to stay at Bellefont-Belcier for five nights if we could get a bus to take us to the left bank for at least two of the four days of chateaux visits.

I really hit it off with Howard Kwok and his winemaker Jerome when I met them at Harvard last winter, they are super nice people with just a classic BWE attitude about things, I'm confident you would really like them.

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/ ... nt-belcier

I wonder how long of a drive it is from Bellefont-Belcier to the northern Medoc compared to the drive from the city of Bordeaux to the northern Medoc?

I'll at least check on rates and availability at Bellefont-Belcier, doesn't hurt to ask.

Perhaps something like:

Monday: Arrive.
Tuesday: St. Estephe.
Wednesday: Margaux/Bordeaux City.
Thursday: Pauillac/St. Julien.
Friday:St. Emilion/Pomerol.
Saturday: Depart.

I wonder whether that week of March 23rd Is in fact too close to Primeur week?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:08 pm

Let's get a list of places we would like to visit:

Jim:

Sociando Mallet, Montrose, Calon Segur, Lafon Rochet, Cos d'Estournel, Meyney, Chasse Spleen.

Pontet Canet, Mouton Rothschild, Grand Puy Lacoste, Lynch Bages, Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande.

Beychevelle, Lagrange, Gruaud Larose, Leoville Barton, Leoville Las Cases, Ducru Beaucaillou.

Margaux, Giscours, La Lagune, Cantemerle, du Tertre.

Haut Brion, Smith Haut Lafitte.

La Dominique (lunch), Tour St. Christophe, Bellefont-Belcier, ....

The list is endless!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:44 am

Still haven't heard back from Alex, MichaelP, since we rescheduled the France trip to accomodate Blanquito et Bro.

Or from much of anyone else, for that matter. I'll follow up with Bellefont-Belcier if anyone is interested; otherwise, I'll pretty much drop the idea of France 2020 and plan my 2020 professional and personal schedule accordingly.

If anyone else wants to pick up the ball for France you can be my guest, otherwise let's just plan the usual April 1st weekend here in Washington, the rotation calls for DC, Charlie Palmer, etc. The historic 20th convention, seems to me it calls for a 1990/2000 comparison.

We went to a really spectacular restaurant in DC this past spring that was arranged by I believe DavidG, perhaps we could do that restaurant on Friday night? And that place arranged by Marcus was fun too, might be a good Thursday night venue?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:08 am

I am confident I could set up some visits but I realistically do not have anything like the time to set everything else up which Tim described in some detail, given my work and other non work commitments plus not being fluent in French. It is a mammoth task if you have a large group. Last time we did weekly conference calls for several months. The amount of heavy lifting for Alex and Tim, and the time that went into planning what turned out to be a hugely successful and seamless experience, really was immense.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:32 pm

Agreed, Comte. I think we still have a little time to think about it.
It would be nice to pull it off for our 20th year anniversary.
If we do go ahead and do it I'm going to suggest the weeks of either March 16th or 23rd.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote:I am confident I could set up some visits but I realistically do not have anything like the time to set everything else up which Tim described in some detail, given my work and other non work commitments plus not being fluent in French. It is a mammoth task if you have a large group. Last time we did weekly conference calls for several months. The amount of heavy lifting for Alex and Tim, and the time that went into planning what turned out to be a hugely successful and seamless experience, really was immense.

Yes, French fluency is pretty darn important in such matters, in my experience.

But the key variable is head count. Something like 6 or less = easy to coordinate; 7-12, challenging but probably doable without Alex et al.; 12+ probably impossible without significant local talent and time.

One (possible) option— the super serious just buy a plane ticket to France for an agreed week, and let the details sort themselves out as the date nears. This requires no advance planning. I’ve shown up in Bordeaux with zero notice and was able to schedule many Chateau visits on the spot (the key was we were a small party). Of course, this precludes hosted dinners at famous Chateau in all likelihood and we probably would have to drive rental cars instead of hiring a van or bus with a driver, but that’s not a deal breaker for me.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:52 pm

Not a bad idea, Patrick.

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:58 pm

The bus is one of the easier parts of the trip. The harder part is coordinating tastings, meals and financing. As long as you do it in advance, it's pretty easy to rent the bus (and I have the info for the last bus company).

At this point, most of the classified growths can manage in English. But they will want to know the size of the group well in advance. And they will likely charge for tasting/meals as a group (which means payment as a group).

Note, we also had to pay for meals for the bus driver too, that is standard. Most have a simple driver meal that they offer.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:01 am

And it can be done without local talent, since we already know much of the local stuff, as long as you divide up the contact with the Chateaux (like we did in 2005). You do need to have a treasurer and someone to call the shots. Last time stefan and I split the role of the treasurer, he handled the dollar side of things and I handled the euro side and budget.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:22 pm

My job was super easy. I just deposited checks or transfers to a special account as they came in and did transfers to Tim's account when he wanted. Tim and I have accounts at the same bank, so transfers were instantaneous. I only needed records on who had paid.

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:46 pm

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/10793217?a ... 2XPjjB4r3N

But not everyone will get the same size room....

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:48 pm

I am willing to take the time to reach out to 6 or so chateaux to see about booking a tasting and lunch or dinner. But someone, as Tim noted, needs to decide which dates and times and coordinate the schedule and prioritize the visits.
Michael-P

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:46 pm

Thanks for taking the lead, Michael P, I've been in contact with the Kwok family at Bellefont Belcier, they have 14 rooms available, I'm waiting to hear back on rates.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:06 pm

A note I just received from Alfred Tesseron:

Dear Jim,
Thank you for your email. I will be very pleased to have you at Pontet-Canet during your visit. Please let me know soon as you can when you are coming with your friends. I will do my best to organize a lunch during your visit. It is a busy period (En Primeurs), a lot of people are visiting and my agenda still have a few holes…
Looking forward to hearing back from you,
All the best,
Alfred

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:00 pm

Hey guys, I would like to come if I can afford it. Can't quite figure out what people settled on re costs and exact timing from this thread...can someone fill me in?

My preference is for fewer, longer visits, doing at least one left bank first growth like Latour/Mouton, and visiting Pichon Baron and Conseillante, but obviously will take a back seat to what the real planners are coming up with.

Also, I know Panos Kakaviatos in DC, and he has close chateau connections -- if we know desired date and number of guests he may be able to help us set something up.

thanks!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:13 pm

Excellent Marcus!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:52 pm

JimHow wrote:A note I just received from Alfred Tesseron:

Dear Jim,
Thank you for your email. I will be very pleased to have you at Pontet-Canet during your visit. Please let me know soon as you can when you are coming with your friends. I will do my best to organize a lunch during your visit. It is a busy period (En Primeurs), a lot of people are visiting and my agenda still have a few holes…
Looking forward to hearing back from you,
All the best,
Alfred

That’s great news!

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:33 pm

Effectively Jim, that mail from Mr. Tesseron is great news.

With that mail, I guess that we can't go to Bordeaux without going to Pontet Canet and Tour Saint-Christophe/Bellefont/Belcier. So let say that if Gentlemen Tesseron and Kwok are prefering a week between the March 16th or 23rd, let's do it that week!

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:38 pm

You read my mind, Nicola!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:03 pm

I've had a long day in court but tomorrow I think I'll follow up on what Nicola suggests.
It seems to me if we can get an idea from both Alfred Tesseron and Howard Kwok which week in March (16th or 23rd in particular) works best for them, we can perhaps begin to crystallize around that.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:10 pm

I love when a plan comes together.

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:48 pm

With a few BWE soldiers we can rally a set of appointments and schedule together to keep us drinking, fed and busy the whole week!

Michael-P

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:37 am

Michel-P, I've been trying to loop you into our communications with Alfred Tesseron and Howard Kwok from Tour St. Christophe but the emails to you are bouncing back, do you have a new email address?

I'm of the Jean-Nicolas mindset that we go with whichever of the weeks of March 16th or 23rd that works best for staying at Bellefont-Belcier and lunch at Pontet-Canet, and then working around those commitments. If we do say four chateaux per day between Tuesday through Friday, that would be a total of 16 properties, with three -- Pontet-Canet, Tour St. Christophe, and Bellefont-Belcier -- already covered. On our Pauillac day perhaps we can do:

Lunch at Pontet-Canet (remember, we were there 4 hours last time and Alfred wanted us to stay longer for some cognac!).
Visit to Mouton Rothschild in the afternoon.
Dinner at Pichon Baron again?! Tim/Alex, do you guys have contacts at Pichon Baron?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:41 am

Is jean-Michel Cazes still around?
I note on-line he is 84 now.
It would be a damned shame if I never meet him.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:43 am

And I certainly would not object if people want to return to La Dominique for lunch, although we are invited for lunch at Tour St. Christophe so I would recommend that as our St. Emilion lunch. What is the dinner program at that restaurant at La Dominique?