FRANCE 2020

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:20 pm

There were lots of rumblings at the convention in March about a BWE trip back to the promised land in 2020.

I know it’s early still, but I’d love to attend and the sooner we know if (a) it’s on, and (b) when (roughly), the easier to get the ducks in a row. For me, for instance, anytime before April 1st or after the first week of June will work much easier with the schedule.

So I hereby formally petition the BD for a sign and a blessing: is France in our (near) futures?

I bet a show of hands now to gauge the general level of interest would be useful too.

FRANCE 2020 Tentative Attendees:
JimHow
AlexR
Tim
Ian
Patrick
Brendan
Stefan
Lucie
CJD
Nic
Danny
Danielle
MichaelP
Nalan
Harry 1+?
Tony + Jennifer
Marcus
Claudius + 1?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:37 pm

I’m in!
I see both a DC and France convention in 2020!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:41 pm

It would be great if we can make it happen. A few cautionary observations:

- The last trip in 2015 involved a huge amount of heavy lifting mainly by Alex and Tim. We were extremely reliant on those two individuals to make it happen. A lot of time was invested in making sure it ran smoothly.

- The bigger the group the more logistically problematic.

- I sense that many chateau are becoming less amenable to doing this, and more may charge.

- I am not trying to sound negative but I think we should understand this at the outset.

- I don’t know how it was in 2005 because I was not involved.

- But if we do decide to go ahead we should start planning in the autumn/fall.

I agree with the idea of aspiring to do this in 2020 because by 2025 it may be even more difficult and some of us may be less able or inclined to do it.

I am reasonably confident I can arrange visits at VCC, Lafleur Petrus and or Trotanoy having met the owners and being invited by them earlier this year.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:11 pm

Lucie and I are almost surely in.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:41 am

Would love to join the crew for this trip.
Understand newbies might be back of the queue and also get & agree with where Compte is coming from.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:39 am

Depending on the dates and when confirmed Danielle and I are in. Sooner the better to hammer down dates as I need at least 6-8 mths lead time to book vacation.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:23 pm

Interested too. I think we should visit less Châteaux and stay longer time at each. Just to keep it more relax.

We should start another thread to discuss which Châteaux are interesting most BWEers.

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:51 pm

Yes, I vote for less chateaux, a shorter trip, maybe four nights.
The Kwoks want us to visit them at Tour St. Christophe.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:31 pm

As Ian notes, I suppose a key variable will be the size of the group vs. how many visitors a chateau can/will accommodate.

I think the first real step is picking a general date and then we can see how many can come. Or vice versa.

With little to no trouble, I can go from late Nov-April 1st, and mid June to Labor Day. Are any windows in there a good time to visit (weather wise and logistically), AND good dates for the group?

I can swing something in the spring if need be.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:24 pm

Although I am in, there is at least a 50% chance I will be living back in the US by then.

The good news is that after two trips, I think we have nailed down some of the key logistics (bus, accommodations, etc). We might want to consider renting out my little chateau from my birthday if some people are interested, although it definitely cannot fit everyone.

Fewer Chateaux is fine, but recall that we put the chateau together based on demand. And the toughest day, Monday, was due to scheduling constraints by the chateaux.

As before, I would emphasize doing meals at the Chateaux themselves. To me, this is the highlight of every trip. But that is me, not sure everyone agrees with that.

Cheers,

Tim

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:25 pm

By the way, I totally agree with Ian on his points. And in particular, we were very lucky that almost no one charged us for the visit except for the meals. But that probably won't be the case this time.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:32 pm

What did we have in 2015, about 18-20 people?
I thought that was a good size. Much less than that and it’s not really a BWE event.
Between my Alaska murder case and other potential projects in 2020 it may be difficult for me to commit so far in advance, although my client is in Nevada now and will hopefully be in Alaska soon and we can start getting some idea on timeframes.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:34 pm

Just as a note, the list of Chateaux where we have enjoyed meals including both 2005 and 2015 are:

Chateau Malartic Lagraviere
Chateau Margaux
Chateau Palmer
Chateau Rolland de By
Chateau Canon La Gaffeliere
Chateau Lynch Bages
Chateau du Tertre
Chateau Leoville Poyferre
Chateau La Dominique (Restaurant)
Chateau de Ferrand
Chateau Smith Haut Lafitte
Chateau Pontet Canet
Chateau Pichon Baron

Not sure how many others of the GCC will host a meal. I know the one place that I really wish we had spent more time was du Tertre.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:35 pm

I just checked, we had 18.

The total budget for the event was around 21k Euros.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:47 pm

It’s sounding like 18-20 will be readily done. We already have 12 or so in this thread depending on plus 1s.

Tim, Ian, and Alex: how far out do we need to start planning in earnest to do this right? Is 6 months enough? If yes, we can revisit this in October to get serious.

I suppose a general idea of the right time of year to go would help folks, especially with the DC Convention happening too in March-ish. Is mid June too hot already? Does it need to be April or May?

Personally, I’d really enjoy dinners at the estates (especially if Chateau Margaux has any openings!). Du Tertre has always been one my favorite Chateau. I’ve not been to Pomerol, so that would be great.

If we truly have openings, a few of the Denver wine gang would likely be interested in coming too (but BWE regulars should get first dibs).

tim · Post by **tim** » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:46 am

I would not do both a France and a US convention. It really should be one or the other.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:20 am

Why?
If 18 or so want to go to France and 25+ want to do DC, especially if they don’t have the wherewithal to do France during the 20th year anniversary of BWE, what’s the problem?
We rounded up over 20 in DC last month on like a three week notice.
It has been one of our commitments in recent years to try to have more off lines.
Doing France usually means we leap frog a year for a significant percentage who can’t make the bigger commitment to the motherland. Our twentieth year anniversary will be a yearlong celebration!

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:09 am

Patrick/Tim et al,

Both trips 2005 & 2015 were during the third week in May. For many reasons this timing seemed best to have access to the Chateau during reasonable weather and between busy times in the vineyards as I remember. 2005 was scorching hot on the non air-conditioned bus which everyone suffered through and was certainly no different in 2015 but having a nicer larger coach for comfort/travel was a must. The planning was exceptional and hats off to the heavy lifters Alex & Tim mostly with input from Ian was incredible and the trip was made possible through them. Any connections or ins with chateaus are incredibly helpful and offer that more personal experience that we've all got fond memories of especially Pontet Canet, Margaux in 2005 with the Granderson connection with Corrine that was noticeably absent in 2015. I echo the invite from the Kwok group and their stable of wines could help fill an itinerary. When we visited last Fall we were also welcomed to come back with BWE and they supposedly were looking to open accommodations for group stays at either Bellefont-Belcier or Haut-Brisson for special guests. Unfortunately I've lost the card for our contact person at Tour Saint Christophe however Jim's connection likely even better.

I don't agree with Tim on a solo BWE event in France and side with Jim as long as the events are spread reasonably far apart. If both are Spring events then would be tough for us but Spring for one and Fall for the other either way would be enticing to attend both. I love the offline around the world and it doesn't mean everyone attends but it sure is nice to read about how the camaraderie through this site is spreading to the corners of the globe...one day Singapore??

The earlier the better to hammer down a date and then start planning around it. Starting in the Fall sounds like a lot of lead time but this is always more work than many give credit to especially planning 3-4 visits/day, lunch/dinner over 4-5 days along with transport/gifts etc etc there is a lot of planning and without the help of the locals on the ground this is very difficult. Happy to help any way I can from afar and look forward to this unfolding.

tim · Post by **tim** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:44 pm

The France trip is a lot of work, and it took the place of conventions in years past. I mean I'm not completely opposed to doing both, but chances are people would do one or the other, but not both.

But if the group thinks both can work, I'm okay.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:33 pm

What might work well would be doing Bordeaux in say March and DC in September.

I have a preference for Mar-Apr over May-June, which can be very hot as we saw in France a month ago. We were blessed with the weather in May 2015 but I understand it was stifling in May 2005 for that Bordeaux trip.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:47 pm

How about France in that April 1st timeframe that usually works so well for us and DC in late Sept/early Oct.
That last little weekend that Marcus and David organized in DC was practically a mini-BWE convention.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm

The en primeur tastings will take place from 03/30 to 04/02.
Any time within 10 days either way of those dates is not advisable.

Alex R.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:13 pm

Indeed. How about like last week of April?

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:37 pm

1 - Please count Nalan and I in for France.

2 - Please count Nalan and I in for a US BWE Annual in 2020.

3 - I have a connection with JCP Maltus but not sure what they would or could do for us. Otherwise I'm not much help in planning 2020 France.

Michael-P

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:07 am

Last week in April would be perfect unless there is some reason this won't work then I can lock it in if this is an agreeable timeframe.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:23 am

That’s fine Danny if that works for your schedule but it may or may not work for me depending on my trial schedule, especially if I have to be in Alaska, which is a significant possibility. Thus, scheduling so far in advance may work for some but less so for others. I suggest we get input from others before rushing into scheduling.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:28 am

No issues Jim but you did suggest the last week in April. Whenever the dates are set.....hopefully far enough in advance to allow time for planning and people to schedule around it the we'll arrange accordingly. Sounds like Spring may be an issue for you regardless with your Alaska commitment and possible run for Senate?

tiesface · Post by **tiesface** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:48 pm

Ah! I'm getting married in April so will have to postpone another convention. Would love to do the motherland with the group.

If DC in Fall '20 stays on the schedule, that's one I would make work.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:41 pm

Thinking about estates to target in 2020. I do t have the list for 2005, but on my shortlist would be (ones not visited in 2015):

Sociando Mallet
Meyney
Montrose
Cos D’Estournel
GPL
Haut-Batailley
Pichon Lalande (good luck)
Talbot (JM Laporte now the winemaker)
Lagrange
Beychevelle
Rauzan-Segla
D’Issan
Brane Cantenac
Cantemerle
Haut-Bailly
Pape Clement
Haut-Brion
DDC
Cheval Blanc
VCC
Eduard Moueix estates

Obviously we could aim for some other first growths and some we visited last time.

End of April looks pretty ideal - bright days, cool nights etc...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:47 pm

Indeed, Danny, any week scheduled in 2020 us gonna be iffy for me, this Alaska case is insanity-plus!
I’ve never seen anything like it. I could be up there for months.
Sounds like last week of April might be good?
Shall we start crystallizing our plans towards that week?

Congratulations on your nuptials, tiesface, hopefully you can make it to DC!

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:09 pm

I would be interested in going but a lot will depend on cost and exact timing.

Re producers, could talk to Panos Kakaviatos in DC about chateau contacts, he has a lot...but it probably wouldn't be free.

I think Conseillante and Pichon Baron would be great visits. Pichon Baron in particular is kind of always good.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:46 pm

We had great visits to Conseillante and Pichon Baron in 2015, especially the dinner at Baron. What a night that was!

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Not sure I have ever had a bad Pichon Baron. Can't say that for any other producer I've drunk a significant amount of. The PB scale runs from good to great.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:52 pm

Since 1996 Pichon Baron has far exceeded Lynch Bages.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:13 am

Personnally, i would dream to do :

- Calon Segur, Cos d'Estournel and Montrose one day.
- Tour St Christophe, Trotanoy and Vieux Chateau Certan another day.
- Haut Bailly, Carmes Haut Brion and Pape Clément another day.
- Finish with some Pauillac on day 4.

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:17 am

That sounds about right Nicola.
As much as 2015 was the experience of a lifetime (my friends Tony and Jennifer still talk about it to this day), I just can't do 24 estates in 5 days again...
Three per day for four days would be just about right.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:05 am

A stellar line up indeed. A knock on the door of a First Growth abode in the Paulliac hood would be a very fitting finale to such a trip or do they not take pre planned tastings on this scale any more.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:49 am

A knock on the door of a First Growth abode in the Paulliac hood would be a very fitting finale

Indeed. we visited Margaux and Latour last time.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:29 pm

Well said Nick. I forgot Calon Segur. I met their representative in February at a 2016, as glamorous as the 14.9% ABV juice she was pouring, and I am pretty sure that would be a fairly straight forward one to book.

Carmes Haut-Brion is a great idea.

First growths I think will be a tougher nut to crack this time round, but we should at least knock on’t’wood.

We should not of course exclude visits to places we visited in 2015.

Calling Izak...Izak will you be joining us and do you have any recommendations or any doors we might be able to walk through?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:42 pm

Personally, my dream line up would be (assuming no firsts):

- Calon Segur, Cos d'Estournel, Montrose and Sociando day 1.
- Trotanoy, l’Evangile, Conseillante and Vieux Chateau Certan day 2.
- Margaux or St Julien day 3.
- Finish with GPL, Pontet Canet, Pichon Baron and Lynch Bages day 4.

Graves and St Emilion have lost their appeal to me, aside from Haut Brion and equivalents like Cheval Blanc and La Mission.