Payments for BWE France 2020

[Tom In DC]

We need to start collecting deposits for our Bordeaux trip for the group events and expenses (chateau visits, meals, transportation, kickbacks to the treasurer, etc.)

At this time we're requesting $500 per person, due by November 15, 2019. This amount is fully refundable until a date to be determined (but certainly after January 1, 2020.)

Please use our Private Message function to send me contact information. I'll then send via email details for sending your deposit.

Thanks,
Tom

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Sending a Private Message:

1) Click "User Control Panel" in the page header

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2) Click the "Private Messages" tab

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3) This should go to "Compose message". If not, click on "Compose message". Enter your recipient's name in the box (e.g. "Tom In DC"), and click the "Add" button.

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...Continued below...

[Tom In DC]

Private Message Instructions (continued)...

4) Verify that the desired recipient is displayed as the "To:", enter a subject and the message text, and click the "Submit" button.

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[Claudius2]

Tom
Have just replied via PM.
I have also asked if you mean Euros rather than USD. I am in SIngapore by the way.
Mark

[Tom In DC]

I do mean USD, Mark. I suppose I could take deposits in euro but I'm not running a currency exchange. The fact is that I'm trying to simplify payments for the most people and the majority of participants are based in the US.

I don't want to have to deal with valuing non-USD deposits relative to USD amounts paid - what date's exchange rate would I use? I have very good facilities for making small non-USD payments (at spot with fees well below what a "no foreign transaction fees" credit card implicitly charges you with mediocre exchange rates) but I'm not willing to assume any currency exchange rate risk while doing this.

I'm sorry if this means folks with no USD-denominated accounts have to effectively change currency twice (once to get US$ to me and a second time when I make payments in €) but I'm trying to minimize the total costs for everyone in the group as best I can.

[stefan]

That clarifies something, Tom; namely, that you do not have an account in Euros. That does mean that the fees should be high enough to allow for unfavorable exchange rate changes.

[JimHow]

Just booked my flight to and from Paris, can't wait!

[Tom In DC]

That clarifies something, Tom; namely, that you do not have an account in Euros. That does mean that the fees should be high enough to allow for unfavorable exchange rate changes.

Not sure what you mean, stefan. I can accept deposits in quite a few currencies, certainly including euro and loonies; however, I am a) trying to limit the work keeping track of who paid how much and when relative to everyone else and b) minimizing the total costs of everyone in the group by pricing in the currency of the majority.

If I accept the equivalent of US$500 in euro from someone today, the one thing I can be sure of is that that deposit won't be worth US$500 tomorrow. How would you manage this? If I immediately exchange US$ deposits to euro, will everyone be happy if I give them refunds after the expense of changing their money twice (to euro AND back into dollars)? Or do I pay refunds in euro? That inconvenience will make me a lot of friends.

I can share information about my payment facilities with you (or anyone else for that matter) privately if you feel the need to audit my plan. I've been using them for a couple of years to make a significant number of small (relative to global international money flows) transfers and I review the market for these services twice a year.

If you think I'm going about this in the wrong way, please suggest how I could do better. Otherwise, feel free to take over the gig.

The volunteer's mantra should always be that no good deed ever goes unpunished.

[Claudius2]

Tom
Nobody is questioning your honesty nor application.
My point was that the recipients of the payments will need to be made in Euros thus you will be exposed to any exchange loss or gain if you collect in greenbacks.
I fully understand that most attendees will use USD but I was talking from the perspective of the recipients.

[stefan]

I certainly was not criticizing you for anything, Tom. I just meant that prices will be in Euros, so payments should be high enough to account for possible unfavorable changes in the exchange rate. My comment was intended more for czar Michael than for you.

[Tom In DC]

Yes, stefan, I think we all expect that we will collect more money than we actually need. Refunds are a lot easier to deal with than trying to collect additional funds from everyone should we come up short at the last minute.

How does this sound, everyone:

I'm working on being able to accept deposits in USD, euro, or pounds. (Sorry, I lied about the loonies.) The participants send me the currency they want (among the ones I can accept) in an amount they think might be comparable to the deposit amount requested. Since the deposits must be fully refundable for at least a while I'll hold everyone's deposits in their original currency. When the funds become non-refundable, I'll convert everything to euro in one transaction, presumably saving significantly on exchange fees. I will track each person's deposit separately based on the number of euro their deposit turned into at the time of exchange.

Then I can make payments via wire, ACH, or a no-fee credit card associated with my multi-currency account. Of course, I'll be converting some of the funds to euro along the the way to make deposits and such. Those charges will just be pooled along the way and assessed against each participant's funds balance. (Is there a mathematician in the house?)

Hopefully the drop out rate isn't so high that we end up not being able to give refunds to the people who change their plans last. (Does this sound like the Premier Cru debacle?)

Should be simple, right? Any thoughts?

[JimHow]

Well done, Thomas in DC/CO!

Very well done indeed!

[stefan]

Sounds very good, Tom.

>>
Is there a mathematician in the house?
>>

Yes. Her name is "Excel". I have not met her, but she has a good reputation.

[Claudius2]

Folks
I have just booked flights today as I could get early bird discounts on preferred airlines. In this case, Qantas as i have club access.
I wish more airlines flew direct to anywhere in France from Singapore. Only options were Air France which is now charging extra for luggage et al, or Singapore Air which wasn't convenient timewise.
So we have a long trip from Singapore to Toulouse via London (could not get direct flight to Bdx) and will fly out from Paris CDG.
I've taken enough time to give us a little free time in france at the end and may visit the Loire or Burgundy too.

[JimHow]

Claudius:
You should NOT have booked flights.
The list is not yet finalized.
We thought this was made clear.
I'm going to be perfectly frank wth you:
I was very disappointed and disturbed by your interactions with Ian earlier this year in the Brexit thread.
I'm not saying Ian's actions were perfect either, but when I asked him off line to stop, he stopped.
When I asked you to stop, you kept going, despite what I thought were reasonable requests.
Your pushing to book flights is another example of concerns that I/we have about whether we feel you should be joining us on this trip.
We cannot have a week ruined by personality conflicts.
I'm sorry to have to say this to you publicly but I am not only speaking on behalf of myself.
We cannot guarantee you a spot on this trip, you should cancel your flights if you still have the chance.
I think Michael's position was clear on this, and I am very surprised you nonetheless went ahead and booked the flights.
Sincerely,
Jim

[Michael-P]

Regardless of whether it's Claudius or anyone else, as I noted in the planning thread, no one's position is guaranteed until these 2 steps are completed:

1 - Take stock of how many people actually want to go, our limit of 18 (maybe 20), based on responses on the BWE site and payments of the deposits (which at some date will turn into non-refundable since we will need to start paying for things like the bus, meals, tastings, etc), and

2 - If we are over 18 (or maybe 20) then we will review the list of interested persons with regard to each person's "mileage/track record" with BWE to assign points for various BWE events and posting participation, Those with more points will get on the confirmed list vs those with less points.

Hopefully we don't have to do step 2 but this seems a reasonable way to cut the list to 18 (maybe 20).

Note that the only deposits that will go non-refundable will only be for those persons that are confirmed (either we don't exceed 18 or we do step 2).

Michael-P

[Claudius2]

Jim
I am going to respond to you personally and suggest that you do the same.
Mark

[Tom In DC]

If anyone who plans to go on the trip has not received information for making, please send me a private message with your email address.

Tom