2019 Bordeaux EP Campaign

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:17 am

It might have been for the more prosaic reason that imposing this on US citizens would have required a great deal of legislation/litigation, while he can act unilaterally vs. non US persons.

But anything that can be done to reduce the movement of the virus is probably good at this stage even if its not ideal, or there are loop holes.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:33 am

Felix,

I’ve caught you out.
Twice.
Irrefutably.

But still, your foolish male pride won’t let you acknowledge this. You continue to blather and pontificate.

Let’s be objective: not everything you have written is false, but you have certainly not helped by spreading false information to add to the prevailing anxiety. It is more than a little annoying.

I am in no way minimizing the threat of the virus. But I am certainly justified in calling you out on the sharing of false information gleaned erroneously from thousands of miles away.

So, go on, Felix, you’re on a roll. I will no longer contribute to this thread.

You may have the last word, sir.

Alex R.

dhp · Post by **dhp** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:42 am

dstgolf wrote:Jal,

The math doesn't make sense. Italy has 10k cases with 631 deaths and if the RO is so high why aren't the numbers higher and likewise in China. Flu infected 35,000,000 americans in 2018-19 with 35k deaths even with a good immunization program in place. Without effective immunization the numbers across the board would be significantly higher including the RO, and death rate.The numbers for covid are guestimates and are variable from 2-3.5% whereas flu RO is modified because of an effective immunization program in place in most developed countries and we still have a high incidence of infection and death. Call me a skeptic or a realist.

Stop comparing total infection flu patients from an entire year to only the early stages of the coronavirus. It makes zero sense as a comparison. It would be like looking at the flu numbers for November and thinking that seasonal flu hardly exists anymore.

The numbers aren't higher in China and Korea because of the aggressive measures those countries have taken to combat the virus, lowering the effective R0. You can certainly reduce the effective R0 if you lock every single person in an airtight container. China's measures don't go quite that far, but they took really draconian measures to limit the spread. Measures, that quite frankly, couldn't happen in the US or most of the rest of the world. Korea has taken a different approach by testing over 10,000 people per day, which is more than the USA has tested. Period. And Korea is a much smaller country. All that testing means that even asymptomatic carriers can isolate themselves and limit the spread of the disease.

This is why testing is so important and why the CDC and federal government failed so spectacularly even when given over a month's head start compared to Korea. This is why so many of these quarantine measures and so-called overreaction is important, because these measures can and do work to slow down the spread of this disease. If we were to continue like business as usual if it were just another seasonal flu, then you end up like Italy.

And why does effective immunization matter if no such effective immunization for coronavirus exists at this point? The reality is that we have little immunity to covid-19 and no efficacious vaccine for the year.

If you're going to be a skeptic or a realist, at least use critical thinking to back up your logic.

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:09 am

"The media have also stirred things up and many have lost their sense of objectivity. I hope that the 20 people coming on the BWE tour in less than a month will not be deterred by the alarmist pronouncements one reads in this era of fake news."

Alex, I love that quote, possibly above all of the utter nonsense quotes you have made in this thread. There are lots and lots of words and phrases to describe people like you, but I prefer to use the two we would use down in Australia "complete wanker"

Idiots like you got Italy into the situation they now face, hopefully there are not quite so many of them in France (is that a forlorn hope?), and that a united, sensible, dramatic and seriously hard-working effort by the Governments and populations of the World will result in reducing the toll of this pandemic to as few souls as possible.

dragzworthy · Post by **dragzworthy** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:38 pm

JimHow wrote:I don’t know who you are dragzworthy, but I don’t think there are any bragging rights here.
If it ends up that the virus does not end up killing lots of people, some will say, see, the issue was overblown. Others will say, see, thank goodness we took all these precautions.

No bragging rights....just calling someone out for having their head in the sand and there is no doubt Alex has been incredibly dismissive if other posters. If there are mass deaths it will be tragic, but, in the interim, this relaxed attitude of people like Alex should be challenged.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:49 pm

I may still go with a smaller contingent.
The only thing that holds me back is this quarantine business, I have to be in Alaska for a murder case during the week of April 11th.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:52 pm

Palmer closes its doors for visitors because of epidemic!

Ognik · Post by **Ognik** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:46 pm

Why am i not surprised?!

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:17 pm

I may still go with a smaller contingent.
The only thing that holds me back is this quarantine business, I have to be in Alaska for a murder case during the week of April 11th.
JimHow

Posts: 14137
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:49 pm
Location: Lewiston, Maine, United States

.... you might get lucky Jim, they are suspending new trials in some states

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:02 pm

I guess some new members of BWE have choosen the wrong forum, as they seem more interested in Covid-19 than wines of Bordeaux. Maybe CVE (Corona Virus Enthusiast) board would be more appropriate? Or I guess it is just to be ''with the topic of the moment'' while it is on, and back to Bordeaux after.

Some irrespectful things have been written in the post, and this is sad from what I guess are basically friendly and intelligent people. And don't worry, the members of BWE are friendly and intelligent and like life so I'm pretty sure that we have all different sources of informations to have different perception of the issue, but basically, everyone here know his/her tolerance to risk and how to adapt to it.

So if I want to get some interesting things in that thread, let say dhp, felixp21, dragonzworthy, JimHow, all, what is the Bordeaux wine you would like to drink (that you own or not) if you get out of Covid-19 alive?

For myself, I would open a Léoville Las Cases 1982 or 1990, because these two bottles were great last Saturday and I did not had enough with just one pour.

Nic

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:31 pm

well spoken Nic, I agree and apologies for any out-burst. As a doctor facing a winter, making light about the "fake news" and "hype" of the media is, to me, inexcusable.

my initial post was indeed wine related, EP 2019, and I received dismissive and arrogant responses (read right thru this thread, it makes for, sadly, amusing reading now)

I was then told I was "making things up" (clearly I had a time machine or took an unbelievably lucky guess at the time) when all I have stated has proven to be quite factual, if not exactly at the time sources (including, mostly, CNN) stated such events would occur.

Anyway, I intend to drink my remaining bottles of 1989 Canon, 1990 LLC and 1982 l'Evangile in the weeks that follow.... Australia is about to enter total lock-down, including the cancellation of the F1 GP, giving fans 30 minutes notice!!!

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:49 am

felixp21 wrote:.... Australia is about to enter total lock-down, including the cancellation of the F1 GP, giving fans 30 minutes notice!!!

Oh no, I've waited anxiously all winter for the 2020 Australian Grand Prix. Damn that coronavirus!

dhp · Post by **dhp** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:08 am

1996 Rauzan Segla is on deck to be drunk.

As for the actual topic at hand, whether I buy into the 2019 campaign is purely based on pricing. I won't be tempted by any vintage of the century talk. Given the pricing trends of the last several EP campagins, combined with tariffs and now a slowing global economy, this is likely going to go the way of 2017, where I don't think think about buying for more than a second.

I guess some new members of BWE have choosen the wrong forum, as they seem more interested in Covid-19 than wines of Bordeaux. Maybe CVE (Corona Virus Enthusiast) board would be more appropriate? Or I guess it is just to be ''with the topic of the moment'' while it is on, and back to Bordeaux after.

Misinformation about the pandemic both extremely troubling and dangerous. I lurked this board because I enjoy reading people's thoughts on Bordeaux wines, and I hope to continue to do so, but it's important to fight back against serious misconceptions about the coronavirus pandemic that has the potential kill a lot of people.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:22 am

I think that's a bit overdramatic, dhp.
A few comments in one thread among hundreds about whether to attend a few chateaux in Bordeaux is hardly "extremely troubling and dangerous."
This site has been in existence for over 20 years and we have generally been tolerant of each other's views without insults, I think that is what longtime BWEer Nicolas is referring to.
I hardly think anything said in this thread warrants the need to "fight back" and insult the people of good will on this site.
I think those who are taking it upon themselves to pontificate against we evil infectors of the world are taking yourselves way too seriously.

dhp · Post by **dhp** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:19 am

JimHow wrote:I think that's a bit overdramatic, dhp.
A few comments in one thread among hundreds about whether to attend a few chateaux in Bordeaux is hardly "extremely troubling and dangerous."
This site has been in existence for over 20 years and we have generally been tolerant of each other's views without insults, I think that is what longtime BWEer Nicolas is referring to.
I hardly think anything said in this thread warrants the need to "fight back" and insult the people of good will on this site.
I think those who are taking it upon themselves to pontificate against we evil infectors of the world are taking yourselves way too seriously.

Jim,

My intention is certainly not to insult, so I must apologize to dstgolf for my jab regarding "critical thinking," which is unkind, and especially so coming from an anonymous, newly registered poster who knows no one here. My comments were strictly in response to dstgolf's false equivalencies to seasonal influenza, which were/are a common refrain for months when the country should've been prepping for mass testing and containment. That said, I was certainly not one of those pontificating against your travel to Europe! Nor do I think we should all just hide in our homes in the fetal position until this all blows over!

I think I've said my piece on this now, so I hope to just talk/read Bordeaux for the years to come.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:10 am

We had to cancel our local wine dinner for next week.

Social distancing is in full force here.

They're pushing people to work from home.

I tried it for a day but it was too balky with all my insane uncooperative spreadsheets.

My trip to Aspen in a couple weeks looks like its going to be cancelled one way or another, whether by the airline, mountain, or spouse.

At least I had an ok bottle of the 2000 Pegau CNDP tonight. A little bretty, but lovely color and depth.

I suspect fancy pants wine sales are going to take a hard hit with stock market and broader economic troubles.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:07 am

Hi Felix,

I said I would write no more on this thread, but I have gone back on that for the following reason.

Despite their repeated announcements to the contrary, the Union des Grands Crus have just announced that they are canceling the en primeur tastings, due to start in 2 weeks, altogether.

I yelled at you for spreading fake news.
Your timing was off, but the cancellation, in fact, turned out to be true.
So, I am admitting that you were right and I was wrong.

Yours sincerely,
Alex R.

dragzworthy · Post by **dragzworthy** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Nicklasss wrote:I guess some new members of BWE have choosen the wrong forum, as they seem more interested in Covid-19 than wines of Bordeaux. Maybe CVE (Corona Virus Enthusiast) board would be more appropriate? Or I guess it is just to be ''with the topic of the moment'' while it is on, and back to Bordeaux after.

Some irrespectful things have been written in the post, and this is sad from what I guess are basically friendly and intelligent people. And don't worry, the members of BWE are friendly and intelligent and like life so I'm pretty sure that we have all different sources of informations to have different perception of the issue, but basically, everyone here know his/her tolerance to risk and how to adapt to it.

So if I want to get some interesting things in that thread, let say dhp, felixp21, dragonzworthy, JimHow, all, what is the Bordeaux wine you would like to drink (that you own or not) if you get out of Covid-19 alive?

For myself, I would open a Léoville Las Cases 1982 or 1990, because these two bottles were great last Saturday and I did not had enough with just one pour.

Nic

I hope no one dislikes that I'm a newbie and waded in, I just feel passionate about certain subjects... Long time lurker fwiw. I have had the week from hell thanks to the virus, it's not easy trading in these environments and seeing money poured down the drain.

Back to wine... I have just opened a blason d'ssan 2012 and am.enjoyong that, great VFM. I'm also decanting a Lagrange 2005 (st Julien) of which I'm aware people believe is overhyped...but I enjoy this wine a lot. I'm partial to Pauillac, At Julien as Pomerol.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:48 pm

Alex, while you say canceled, my guess is that postponed might be the better word as I would imagine that Ronan Laborde (president of the UGC) will try and reschedule and find an alternative date once the smoke clears, after-all, I don’t think that the Bordelais will be abandoning the tradition of showcasing the newest vintage to be put into barrel.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:01 pm

Well said Nicolas, I was getting uncomfortable with the tone of the discussion, and I'm glad the calm and civility are returning.

Nevertheless, I admit that most of the clarity on this virus I got was from this forum and not from the media of politicians. Felixp, dragzworthy, and dhp had a different perspective than most of us and were passionate enough to try and clarify things (at least for me) and for this I thank them.

I wish it would have been more civil, obviously, but I would be unhappy if we just concentrate BWE on wine and nothing else. We are all as you say friendly and intelligent, the discussion while frustrating can and should be kept polite.

dhp · Post by **dhp** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:33 pm

Would it be conceivable that even EP itself is delayed? Without tastings/scores, a staggering global economy, and general panic, I can't imagine worse timing for this all to get started. Perhaps things will look much better by then.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:39 pm

Good thing we’re all well stocked up on wine!

The grocery stores in Denver (and presumably most elsewhere) are totally cleaned out.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:30 pm

There was run on everything at the local grocery store this morning. Woman on line ahead of me bought 12 bottles of Cupcake N.Z. Sauvignon Blanc and 12 bags of Tostitos

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:58 pm

The large importers from HK and China were told almost a week ago there would be no EP this spring, and that the second week in September is a likely postponement date. I imagine the UGC were delaying their announcement until they received further clarity on the matter and involved all the stakeholders.

I am absolutely heartened to see the response by the French, it is fantastic, and I sincerely hope that they do not suffer the fate of the Italians.
The situation in Italy is/was simply incredible, I feel so sad not only for the victims, but also for the doctors, who had to choose who lived and who died (as they had to in WuHan). That will live with them forever.

The simple fact is that every country in the World does not have the facilities (i.e. ICU beds) to cope with a sudden outbreak, and draconian measures are required to stem the volume of critically ill patients. Social distancing, hygiene and personal habits are new terms that will live with us for the next half year.

In Australia, the medical scenes are frightening, as all the major hospitals gear up for the incoming storm. I'm not looking forward to the next few weeks here

Alex, about faces are not confined to the French. The Head of the Grand Prix here in Melbourne, the site of the Australian F1 GP, ABSOLUTELY assured all the spectators waiting at the gates for the preliminary sessions that the GP was going ahead, and 30 minutes later announced it's cancellation!!!! I very much doubt he didn't actually know the truth when he was making that first assurance hehe

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:10 pm

So, what is going to happen this year? Will the EP system continue? Will the Bordelaise recognise the extraordinary difficult problem they are now confronted with and simply shut up shop for the year?
It really is going to be fascinating to find out what actually happens!!!

back to the OP!!! I guess having a family in China, I was able to recognise what was going to happen to the rest of the World over the next few weeks (the OP was February 22nd), so now that it has happened, I remain fascinated what will become of the 2019 vintage sales.

Alex is quite correct that it will make zero difference to the FG's, and of course the likes of Le Pin, Petrus, Ausone, LaFleur etc, but I am really interested in what the UGC and the individual Chateaux will do now. The Asian stakeholders were expecting a postponement, but the cancellation I'm sure has come as quite a surprise.

Not sure the likes of Neal Martin will be rushing down to Bordeaux any time soon to do individual tastings, might we see an EP campaign in September????

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:30 pm

jal wrote:There was run on everything at the local grocery store this morning. Woman on line ahead of me bought 12 bottles of Cupcake N.Z. Sauvignon Blanc and 12 bags of Tostitos

My mother in law always used to drink her bubbly with Cheetos. So we still launch every holiday with a glass of that, and some of those messy orange crumbed salty snacks.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:35 pm

I assume it is Rose Champagne that she drinks with Cheetos, Arv. Everyone knows that white Champagne calls for salted buttered popcorn.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:32 pm

AKR wrote:
jal wrote:There was run on everything at the local grocery store this morning. Woman on line ahead of me bought 12 bottles of Cupcake N.Z. Sauvignon Blanc and 12 bags of Tostitos
My mother in law always used to drink her bubbly with Cheetos. So we still launch every holiday with a glass of that, and some of those messy orange crumbed salty snacks.

I got a chuckle out of these two posts. Peggy had a hankering for Cheetos and had them in her cart to check out at the store a few days ago. Got home... NO CHEETOS! Frantic searching ensued... I picked up a bag when out yesterday - the look on her face was precious when I returned, like I'd brought her the Hope diamond.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:34 pm

stefan wrote:I assume it is Rose Champagne that she drinks with Cheetos, Arv. Everyone knows that white Champagne calls for salted buttered popcorn.

Not a bad match. So is greasy, salty fried chicken.

This will probably sound gross, but I've been know to eat peanut M&Ms with white Champagne.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:28 pm

I don't think I've ever had a Cheetoh.
I don't like the combination of chocolate and peanuts
People in my office (when I was still working) were careful not to microwave popcorn when I was around.

Stefan, Arv, DavidG, WTF???
I'm starting to question my whole relationship with you guys.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:35 pm

Oooh, Jacques, you haven’t lived until you’ve had a Cheetoh and ketchup omelette! LOL

I can live without popcorn, and Cheetohs are an occasional taste aberration. But chocolate and peanuts, yummmm!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:16 pm

Criticism from someone who puts humus on a Bagel?!?!?

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:30 pm

stefan wrote:Criticism from someone who puts humus on a Bagel?!?!?

I put hummus on everything!!

Ha, a friend in Israel just send me this:

For anyone who has noticed a strange and different taste in our falafel and hummus lately, there is no fear and nothing to worry about, we are informing you that our employees have started washing hands, it is temporary and soon the taste will return to its original flavor.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:39 pm

I think it was Haaretz that did an article on the best tasting and cleanest hummus in Tel Aviv. They found that the best tasting ones contained urea.

Why is חומוס translated as hummus more often than humus?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:41 pm

This thread is getting gross. Not sure when/if I’ll ever eat humus or hummus again!

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:43 pm

stefan wrote:
Why is חומוס translated as hummus more often than humus?

I'm just going by how it's spelled here. Now, I feel like making some LOL

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:42 pm

What is awesome is that my city has a pretty massive contingent of Lebanese & Iraqi's, and they have brought their bakeries along with them. So we get fresh samoun style naan bread once a month or so, literally out of the hot oven. Kids have to be told not to chomp it on the way home. And they make an unusually rich homemade hummus to go with it. I used to get Father Sam's assyrian bread shipped to me here (all the way from Buffalo) until I found these places. And of course, I only found these places, from our Appliance Salespeople. For whatever reasons, these guys are all over that biz, and can generally beat the HD / Costco prices/service/install timelines. But the sales process is not quick. They always want to check on how your cousin is doing, and if you have tried the new falafel shack down the street, and how their uncle misunderstands politics etc.....

Modern kids put hummus on everything the way that my generation put peanut butter on things. (I used to peanut butter and american cheese sandwiches when I was 5)

jal · Post by **jal** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:22 am

Sorry Patrick, Jill said the same.
I make my own hummus and baba ganush. Everything else tastes too industrial to me

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:17 am

Thanks to saner minds BWE trip to France was cancelled. The travel restrictions and closers are coming fast and furious across Canada and the world with the gov't asking people to return from abroad now before they can't. I suspect we're not far from border closures and full travel ban. With restaurants shut in France that would have been fun and people are now scrambling to escape Europe any way they can to find their way home. People have not caught on at the seriousness of maybe not the disease but measures being taken to slow the transmission, protect the sick and elderly and how these will significantly impact everyones lives. 14 day mandatory quarantine to everyone returning from abroad was officially imposed yesterday. Restaurant tonight was deserted, and shelves in stores are looking apocalyptic. When are people going to key in that this bug does not cause diarrhea....if toilet paper is available people are filling their shopping carts. Can't find rubbing alcohol or sanitizing wipes/purel etc anywhere. Supply chains are becoming a problem like I've never seen and all in the last week. Our Prime Ministers wife became the 2nd declared positive patient in Ottawa Thursday and he's now quarantined without symptoms. Testing stations are being set up across the city and they don't want sick people with potential disease going to their MDs office or ER to place healthy patients and staff at risk. If you get sore throat, cough, fever they are saying stay home/self quarantine for 14 days and if feeling too ill go to a designated testing centre for confirmation test. Trump and Trudeau have talked discussions of not if but when should planes be grounded and full travel ban be imposed along with border closures. This is not going to be pleasant going forward and pretty boring with every sporting event canceled, theatres/schools closed and gov't workers told to work from home. Parents with young kids now have to find a way have their kids looked after with daycares closing.

Someone mentioned Italy. My partners brother-in-law is an internist in Trieste and he says its total chaos. They were completely unprepared. They have no gloves/masks/sanitizers for personelle. Medical facilities have been overwhelmed and as said they are making decisions of who lives and dies as there are not enough ventilators. If you are over the ripe old age of 60!!!! there tough luck you are not eligible for advanced care. Can you imagine most of us wouldn't have a chance there!!

An interesting quick read...https://ca.yahoo.com/news/ontario-rolls ... 40093.html

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:24 am

This is pretty sobering.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/may-soon ... 6e2c8856d9