What are we drinking in the Omicron ominous?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:47 pm

So many interesting topics here

1. Jim good question on ‘glossy’. With respect to wine and especially Bordeaux the first word that comes into my head is ‘modern.’ I got an email yesterday from Farr Vintners trying to flog me a case of 2005 Leoville-Poyferre for £900 ib. After JC’s positive review after our first zoom session I gave it a second thought. In the notes Neal Martin did not use them the word ‘glossy’ but this is the sort of wine that is glossy:

The Château Léoville-Poyferré 2005 has a rich and opulent bouquet with lavish ripe black cherries and wild strawberry, just a touch of licorice rendering it even more extravagant. The palate is full-bodied with ripe, rounded tannin, touches of licorices and glycerin on the mid-palate with savory notes flourishing towards the finish. This is almost a brash, hubristic Saint Julien, one for those who prefer a more opulent style of Bordeaux while maintaining complexity. Chapeau Didier Cuvelier. Drink 2020-2050.”
95 points, Neal Martin (2015)

Wines where Michel Rolland consults. Also means a bright and shiny hue, and exuberant to the eye.

SHL makes modern glossy wines and I love them. Though it is right at the boundary between modern and over modern. The 2009 SHL is one of the all time greats and the 2016 is close behind.

Btw I cut and pasted that review and could have sworn he used the word glossy.

2. Cappellano - CV - I first tried the 2004 Franco in 2014 and it wasn’t ready. I was surprised how ready it was on Friday. I have an unopened case of the 2004 Rupestris which I was going to leave a while longer but this gives me second thoughts. If I were in your shoes I would try the 2003 first, however. The 2006 I would definitely leave well alone judging by other very backward 2006 Barolos I have tried.

3. Don’t give up on Langoa! A faithful steed, it has always played second fiddle to Leoville and as Lilian told us the terroir is different. The vines don’t need to dig as deep so the Langoa wines are simpler. I won a case of the 2006 at auction very cheaply recently. For about £200. It is just an old fashioned wine that needs more time imho, like many 2006s. I am keeping mine but will not revisit for a couple of years. Langoa is great in big vintages while Leoville is skulking: the 2000, 2005 and 2010 especially are fabulous.

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... ius#p41563

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:11 pm

So that prompts a question in my mind. Regarding "glossy" wines, I have sometimes heard the word "polished" in describing wines. Is that essentially the same thing?

jal · Post by **jal** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:06 pm

Glossy for me is a question of texture, and is similar to the unfortunate Suckling description of "silky".

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:21 pm

My take on what people mean by "glossy” is modern, with more polished fruit and less earthy, vegetal notes than "classic." Maybe "showy?" It seems to fall on a spectrum closer to modern and not necessarily pejorative like spoofulated, fruit bomb, gloppy, Parkerized, or Rollandized. It’s a negative term to the hard-core classicist or AFWE palate, but I can see it could be used as a positive. Like a gloss finish on the interior walls or cabinets in your home. A little shiny and new can be appealing. Too much - not so much.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:36 pm

For me, glossy is a wine obviously softened through modernist techniques during elevage like Rolland’s signature microoxygenation. Silky is a wine soften by time in the cellar. I don’t object to glossy in principle, I just don’t like the way the wines taste/feel.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:38 pm

I was very impressed by the 2016 Langoa Barton at the UGC. Seemed like it might drink well comparatively early.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:50 pm

Ian
I hope your experience with the 06 Langoa Barton is better than mine so far. Interesting to see what you think of it.
I really like Leoville Barton, but I keep getting disappointed with Langoa.
I also thought the 06 was too young when I first tried it, and I have drunk one every year or two but my experience wasn't so good so far.
Having said that, drinking Bordeaux in Singapore is always a crap shoot.
I try hard to store the wines properly (offsite temp controlled storage and two wine fridges at home) thus I sometimes wonder if I am just unlucky.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:12 pm

Glossy is definitely an interesting term but I feel that it should be used to describe something visual like the color or the visual "texture". Can something really taste "glossy?"

On a related note, assuming my previous statement loses this debate, the 2004 L'Eglise Clinet that I had last night was a very pretty wine that opened up slowly in the glass and could possibly be considered glossy. As I would probably put Pomerol at the top of the list for wines that I would choose to use that word to describe.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:38 pm

2000 Langoa was delicious recently.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:13 pm

Via the search function, the earliest usage of "glossy" on BWE is from 2009 (pretty much as far back as the updated site goes): http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... ossy#p1332. The author, Michael Malinoski, has lots of notes on BWE that use "glossy". Houndsong and ChrisKissak also were using this descriptor in 2010 on BWE.

My first note on CellarTracker using glossy was from 2013:
2001 Ridge Lytton Springs
Blackberry liqueur nose, Drapier perfume developing, espresso, rich and big fruit like a young vintage port, starts off with a bitter note on the finish, like an over roasting but improves with air. Early adolescence here, deftly balanced between power and restrained, sweet yet refreshing. Glossy tannins, some oak, good finish, will improve for another 5+. Very good today. 91 pts.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:43 pm

It is no easy to describe wine with only a few words. Even with a lot different words. Even between different generations. If glossy works with you, it is just fine. If glossy doesn't works with you, it is just fine. Glossy is positive for some, negative for other, and impossible for wine for others, this is just fine. It is the same for many other words.

I had a few times 2004 l'Église-Clinet, and would not call it glossy. But I understand that JoelD can find that wine glossy. Personnally, if I try to describe my definition of glossy, i think i related it to "luxurious oak well integrated". A bit like the "gloss" in the makeup. So SHL is glossy for me. The 1990 La Conseillante is glossy for me. La Tour Carnet is also kind of glossy. Mouton Rothschild and Cos d'Estournel are kind of glossy. 2003 Péby Faugères is oakier than oaky, not glossy at all.

Silky is another interesting term, that i associate with caressing ripe fruit and fine tannins, i see mostly in Bourgogne, but also in Bordeaux (i see some Beychevelle or the 2000 Duhart Milon or some 1985 corresponding). Velvety is for me denser ripe fruit with ripe caressing tannins (2009 Léoville Poyferré, 2003 Montrose).

The real thing, it is different for everyone, and this is what is the most interesting in wine tasting. Tasting the same wine, at the same time, from the same bottle, is what is most instructive between two (or more) wine tasters.

What about descriptors like "Cordier funk" (so 80's!), hubristic (like the 2005 Léoville Poyferré above), or sexy? And what will we read in the future? Rhinocerosian? Circular (like the economy)?...

So don't get lost too much with the words, if so, you might lose your "gloss"!

Nic

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:49 pm

Had a 2017 Rubesco Rosso di Torgiano last night, just two glasses, of a medium concentrated red, with lots of fresh red fruits and berries aromas mainly, a bit of candy cherries too. Ripe sangiovese with colorino, tasting mosly cherries, jam rasberries and red berries. The 14% is a bit tasty at room temperature, but chilled a bit it is ok. Cooler, some flowers come in. Very good for the price, but the low acidity and light candy side make it a "correct" match only, with tomato sauce pasta. I would see it more in good company with... the enchiladas we'll have later this week. Great, half bottle leftover.

Nic

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:21 pm

Claudius2 wrote:Ian
I hope your experience with the 06 Langoa Barton is better than mine so far. Interesting to see what you think of it.
I really like Leoville Barton, but I keep getting disappointed with Langoa.
I also thought the 06 was too young when I first tried it, and I have drunk one every year or two but my experience wasn't so good so far.
Having said that, drinking Bordeaux in Singapore is always a crap shoot.
I try hard to store the wines properly (offsite temp controlled storage and two wine fridges at home) thus I sometimes wonder if I am just unlucky.

I agree Mark that Leoville is a big step up from Langoa and a bigger step up than the price differential would suggest - Leoville tends to have more complexity and class as its vines have to dig deeper for nutrient.

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Tonight (based on a recent very positive tasting note from Salil on CellarTracker) we opened 2001 JJ Prum Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Spatlese. Definitely a Wow wine with 8% alcohol. Been on a German Riesling kick for a while now and really enjoying it.

Chris Bublitz

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:48 pm

Those 2001s... Wow.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:54 am

Good response Nicolas. Fair point about the L'Eglise Clinet. However we agree about Cos D'estournel being able to be described as glossy for sure. I would also agree that i would not call either the LP 09 or Montrose 03 as glossy at all.

I have a feeling this will now be a reference point on BWE, people going out of their way to point out glossy/non-glossy wines so that we can create a more uniform definition. Will be interesting to see where it goes.

2001 Giuseppe Quintarelli Valpolicella Classico Superiore tonight showed very well with my meat sauce. I have begun to really like using my Riedel Grand Cru burg glass for wines like this that could use a short decant but have some age so I want to let them expand in the glass instead.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:39 am

Last night 2012 Evening Land Seven Springs Pinot Noir and tonight a 2010 Huet Clos du Bourg Vouvray Sec.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:51 am

Too funny, tonight I had the 2009 Huet Haut-lieu Sec. Lovely stuff.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:16 am

The last two nights I drank a 2017 Aia Vecchia Lagone, Toscana IGT. Nice core of fruit with strong but not overpowering tannins. The 14.5% alc was well hidden. This is a nice party wine.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:04 pm

Drank a 2016 La Dame de Montrose this week.
It was wonderfully unripe and sour cherry bitter.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Chris, 2001 is my favorite riesling vintage for sure. Have had great Prum's and Donnhoffs.. the Prum WS auslese is my favorite. Was the WOTN out of about 20 wines last summer at my friends house. Picked up a few bottles because of it. And also a Prum WS GK 2001. Definitely need to try some 2001 Prum Spatlese though and see how they hold together with less sugar.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:21 pm

Tonight my wine club is having a Zoom meeting. We have a Champagne theme so going with a bottle of Piper rare 2002.; love the contents hate the vulgar filigree bottle

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:48 pm

Musigny 151 wrote:Tonight my wine club is having a Zoom meeting. We have a Champagne theme so going with a bottle of Piper rare 2002.; love the contents hate the vulgar filigree bottle

Had the 02 Rare (bling-bling bottle) in February. Fantastic fizz indeed.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:01 am

Tonight we drank 2009 St Innocent Shea Special Selection with braised duck legs over cabbage. This Shea is wonderful, but the SS version will benefit from 5-10 more years in the cellar.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:10 am

stefan wrote:Tonight we drank 2009 St Innocent Shea Special Selection with braised duck legs over cabbage. This Shea is wonderful, but the SS version will benefit from 5-10 more years in the cellar.

I have 2 of the regular Shea in 09. So it is drinking well now?

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:28 am

With hanger steak on top of a bean, chard and mushroom ragout, we had the rest of the 2012 du Tertre that I opened for the Saturday BWE Zoom meeting. A few days with a Repour and this was now much more open, softer tannins with a strong core of fruit, good complexity and finish. Will improve a lot after a few blanquitos so I don't suggest opening any more soon.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:18 pm

The regular is drinking well now. However, the tannins are not yet completely smooth, so with only two you might wait a few more years.

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 am

La Tour St Bonnet 2016.

Had never tried this producer before and bought initially as bit of a 'cellar blocker'. But I have been really impressed by this, particularly given its price ($30 NZ) so went back and split a case with some friends. Have since read that it may reward cellaring so may tuck a few away and see what happens. Great (newly discovered) QPR.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:55 pm

This weekend we also drank - apart from the 1996 Sociando Mallet.

Ch. Ducru Beaucaillou 1999

First bottle from a case. Fully mature, refined, elegant, harmonious, understated but a complete wine. So easy going, so effortlessly classy. I suspect this has been drinking well for at least five years and it may not have the structure to last for many more decades. So a really useful Ducru to drink whilst waiting on your 1996s and 2000s (the 1995 is starting to drink very well). After the mishaps of the late 1980s Ducru was on top form in the late 90s and this is a good example. It is also one of the last traditional Ducrus before Bruno Borie took over and fashioned these wines in a more modern style.

When I read Robert Goulet horror story with the 2009 Bon Pasteur it is reassuring to know that there is still proper claret in existence.

Mathilde et Yves Gangloff Côte Rotie Barbarine 2011

After a double decant this opened up exceptionally well. Bright and pure with dried flowers, pepper, herbs and spices, smoked meats and riveting minerally, schisty elements. Great purity and laser-like precision. Very different to the Ducru, more exciting and racy, it stole the show, but two outstanding, albeit different, wines. Sadly I only have one more of these.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:12 pm

A very young dry white with crab. The 2019 Bourgogne Côtes salines from Domaine Gueguen.

A nice Chard, very mineral, iodine, salty, dry, good acidity, light flowers and apples.

Nic

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:16 pm

Comte, Gangloff is amazing Côte Rôtie. Probably one of the best. I also had the 2011 La Barbarine and was also impressed. Great stuff.

This is what i wrote about the 2011 and probably i was a bit rough :
2011 La Barbarine Côte Rôtie Mathilde and Yves Gangloff : medium dark red, and a nice wine from Northern Rhône. Nose of blueberries, spices, dead flowers, licorice, red berries, black tar, fat, roasted rock.... Very complex. Lavande too. In mouth, stay medium body, flowery, mineral, purple fruits, light tannins. Good acidity, maybe high for the aoc. Strong and long mineral finish. A terroir wine. Excellent. Tn: 92.

Hard to get here unfortunately. Being a Côte Rôtie fan, and MC too, i think i have to go to London sooner than later. And i could bring a 2012 to compare...

Nic

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:53 am

You are always very welcome Nic, I will save that bottle for you and other delights...

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:23 pm

For a Burgundy Zoom tasting yesterday, we opened a 2009 Henri Boillot Volnay Les Caillerets. A very good, solid red Burgundy with that wonderful fruit in many 2009s. Not on the level of marcs’ Chevillon Vaucrains but still very enjoyable.

Couple days ago opened a 2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese “Rotlay”. Really quite disappointing for a special bottling - too sweet and heavy and a bit flat. I have really liked this in other vintages but this Rotlay seemed to be lacking in acidity - perhaps the grapes were picked too ripe. I’m a big German Riesling fan so this was a major downer.

Chris Bublitz

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:32 pm

2009 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Haut-Lieu
Finished this up in day 2... Serious yum. Great dry extract, big nearly searing acids, and lots of fruit (enough for have an offdry palate impact), giving a terrific sweet-tart tango on the tongue. The attack is meyer lemon, the finish is candied ginger, with some sherried nuances. Not much complexity, but otherwise it’s all money. 92-93 pts

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:44 pm

Winona Chief wrote: Couple days ago opened a 2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese “Rotlay”. Really quite disappointing for a special bottling - too sweet and heavy and a bit flat. I have really liked this in other vintages but this Rotlay seemed to be lacking in acidity - perhaps the grapes were picked too ripe. I’m a big German Riesling fan so this was a major downer.

Chris Bublitz

06 Germans pretty much are no good across the board, IMHO.

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:40 am

Blanquito,

As a long time aficionado of German Riesling, I am embarrassed to say that I was unaware of issues with the 2006 vintage. Howard Cooper pointed out to me just yesterday that many 06s lacked the necessary acidity, also saw Salil’s pretty negative tasting note on Cellar Tracker.

Chris Bublitz

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:52 am

Last night we finished the 2011 Larose Trintaudon and then had a glass of the 2015 Labegorce I had opened the night before.
Tonight when I got home Mary had already poured a glass of the Labegorce into one of my 1855 glasses to go with some cheese and crackers.
I was surprised that she helped me finish the Labegorce, so I popped the cork on a bottle of 2012 Larose Trintaudon and she helped drink a glass of that too.
Right now I'm finishing off a glass of 2015 Chantegrive Cuvee Caroline that I opened to use in the chicken soup I made for dinner.
Very nice but a little more waxy than I usually prefer.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:05 pm

2014 Donnhoff NH Spatlese, with taco tuesday takeout. This wine is the real deal. Probably the best younger riesling that I have had. Great QPR at around 42-45 bucks. Glad I bought a few. A lot more structure and depth than the 2013(which was also good, but more tart, more acid)

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:08 pm

The 2016 Labegorce is beastly and oh so good.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:21 pm

Glad to hear your assessment, Jim. I purchased a case of the 2016 Labegorce based on the descriptions in a couple of reviews. I did not intend to open one for a couple of years, but you are tempting me. Fortunately it is currently stored safely away from the house.