Izaak: Is 2016 the best overall vintage ever?

[JimHow]

As you know I'm no expert, I like what I like, I have styles of vintages that appeal to me when others seem less enthused, and vice versa.
It just seems to me, as I try these $30-50 range Bordeaux from 2016, that I'm finding a great freshness, balance, everything just seems to be like perfectly in place... The Margaux are fragrant, the St. Juliens are very St. Julien, etc, etc. Everything seems to be very honest and true with their communes, taking advantage of the best that their respective terroirs have to offer. Alcohols are lower and more in balance. Tannins are ripe but silky and refined. The $20 bottles like Serilhan and Haut Brisson are performing brilliantly. A couple bottles I worried may have been too homogenous and lacking in personality, but I'm changing my opinion on that the more I experience these wines, I'm finding great individuality in these beauties.

is this the best overall vintage ever in Bordeaux?

[jal]

Did we ever answer the question: Is the 2016 the Lamar Jackson of Bordeaux vintages? Or is it Aaron Rodgers?

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... f=4&t=8733

[Musigny 151]

I cannot believe you guys could even contemplate anybody other than Peyton Manning.

[JimHow]

Lol...

As someone who is now a Tampa Bay Bucs fan after 20 years....

I knew I had a post out there on the 2016s, Jacques, thanks for posting that.

I think I'm coming around on the 2016s...

Jacques, I was going to text you tonight, how long do you contemplate being in Sarasota, as best as you can imagine under the circumstances?

[jal]

Good question,
Short answer I don't know.
Long answer is we're getting antsy, Georgia, Tennessee and Arkansas seem to have partially open, we'll maybe adopt a "wait and see" and if all looks somewhat ok, then I'm pushing for a road trip by the 3rd week of May. If it looks too dangerous to drive there, we may wait and see.
We would love to go to Israel and see friends and family, but if we have to quarantine for two weeks, then that's off the table.
Very strange to live like that, but we got lucky with our quarantine.

[JimHow]

I've been texting with my cousins out there on the other key, I'd love you and Jill to meet them, perhaps dinner at some point when this is all over, but they are kind of like you, when the warmer weather comes they go to their other homes on Cape Cod and Manhattan. They are actually quite nice despite their megarichness.

[jal]

Ha, it would be nice, hopefully we can all get together next time you come down.

[Nicklasss]

2016 is fabulous, but i think 2005 is better. Time will tell.

I'm looking forward to taste those 2016 in 10-15 years.

Nic

[Claudius2]

Guys
Maybe 2016 will tell it’s story in a few decades but I’m saying 1982 and 2005 are my favourite vintages since 1961.
If I am proved wrong then fine. All the vintages have their own tapestry.

[Comte Flaneur]

My current vintage rating from 2000 to 2016:

Vintage (with % of Bordeaux in my cellar)

2016 (8.2)
2010 (5.7)
2005 (3.6)
2009 (2.5)
2000 (6.4)
2015 (5.7)
2014 (1.5)
2001 (5.7)
2008 (5.0)
2012 (3.8)
2004 (2.4)
2006 (3.7)
2002 (1.5)
2011 (1.2)
2007 (0.2)
2013 (0.1)
2003 (1.0)

30% of the cellar is 1995-99 with 1996 the biggest holding at 9.5%

[Musigny 151]

Guys
Maybe 2016 will tell it’s story in a few decades but I’m saying 1982 and 2005 are my favourite vintages since 1961.
If I am proved wrong then fine. All the vintages have their own tapestry.

I like 2016 very much, and the Mouton may be the greatest young Bordeaux I have ever tasted. From what I have tasted, I would put it in the same category as these two.

[stefan]

Looks very good, Ian, except that you have too much 2013. Do you use it for cooking?

[Comte Flaneur]

It is a magnum of Yqrec stefan...I had two and drank one, bit young but pretty nice...I have no 2013 reds.

[stefan]

Now THAT makes sense, Ian!

[greatbxfreak]

Jim,

For the reds very close with 2016. Dry whites and sweet whites are not that splendid as 2013, 15, 17 and they obviously lack acidity.

There is something special with 2016, this aristocratic touch and distinguished walk. 2015 is more direct, more alcohol, 2016 is generally 1-1.5% lower in alcohol in many places. 2018 is more powerful with tannin even fatter than in 2016. Record in IPT!. Lacks a bit of elegance of 2016.

You all speak about 2005 and 1982. What about 2000? My second Bordeaux harvest after 1985, but I participated first in 2000. I love this vintage.

My favourite vintage from old times is 1959 and I had stunning wines from 1953 and 1952.

Had already tasted some 2019 barrel samples sent to my home - interesting vintage. Will publish my TNs once I receive more samples to taste.

[JimHow]

Thanks Izaak. I thought I was done buying 2016s but when they go on sale again in New Hampshire I'm going to stock up on more.

[robert goulet]

C.F. good to see a nice chunk of '01's in the cellar...
Bobby and I approve

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes RG, 2001 is undoubtedly a good vintage to own. When we did a horizontal a year and a half ago some of the wines were surprisingly lean iirc, which you and Bobby would really like. Most of my 2001s are actually right banks. I think 2001 is classic on the left bank - Alex describes it as an ‘Atlantic’ vintage - and excellent, possibly as good as 1998, on the right.

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... 525#p69525

My contribution was the Jean Gautreau. It didn’t shine but I messed up by not giving it a long enough decant.

[Musigny 151]

Just found landed a couple of magnums of Cheval 2016, and some fifths of L’Eglise Clinet. Pricing on 2016s still relatively soft

[AKR]

Remember its not just the vintage that matters, but the stemware.

I like this type, particularly good for the misunderestimated 2003s.

[Gerry M.]

Based on my experience with 2014 and and lesser numbers of 2015 and 2016, I'll go a step further and state i suspect it could end up surpassing 1988-1990 for the greatest 3 year run in history. The balance, freshness and purity of the wines are just incredible. For 2016 I'm putting together a hit list of sub $50 wines to seek out. What Margaux was to 2015 I'm thinking St. Estephe is to 2016 while Pauillac is certainly no slouch.

[OrlandoRobert]

OMG you boys are such enablers!!!!

Ok let me ask each of you a question, how old are you and when is your expected consumption of these 2016s, at 10 years, 15 years, etc.?

I’m 54 and like Bordeaux with some maturity on them. I swore 2014 was my last vintage, and fortunately for me, was a classic style vintage that I tend to prefer, and was priced incredibly well in futures and on release. I should be hitting retirement while these wines are starting hitting their stride. I bought a couple 2015s, after saying I would not. And then a few more 2016s, after doubling down and saying never.

Some of these that I have tried are really good. I have not bought any of the monster left banks, like Montrose, as those wines generally need 20+ years, but then again, I have not tried them in this vintage, just going off history. I did buy Sociando, as always. Lanessan sucks in this vintage, Bouard has taken over.

[JimHow]

I’m 61, OB, I’m enjoying these wines in their infancy.
I’m looking forward to drinking them in my 70s, which will be 13-23 years after the vintage.
I think that will be just about right for a lot of these wines.
I expect they’ll close down at some point, although the wines I’ve tried so far have been delicious.
I said at the beginning that 2016 was my last vintage buying in quantity.
I agree with Gerry, 2014/15/16 is an epic three year run, not only because the quality of the grapes is so great but they also present three very distinctive styles of vintages. And whether it is post-Parkerism or just happenstance, the alcohol levels, especially in 14 and 16, are in a good place. They are compelling vintages. I have a lot of each in my cellar, which I expect will provide much enjoyment in the last decade of my life.

[RPCV]

Best 5 year run in the history of Bordeaux...reds that is: 2014-2018. Boom! 2016 the best of all in this stretch.

[Gerry M.]

I'm 59 and I know these wines will outlive me by a long shot.

[Musigny 151]

Isn’t this why we have kids? After all the bother of bringing them up and educating them, we end up giving the best of our wines to drink at maturity. Doesn’t sound like much of a trade, but somehow, it works for me.

[Comte Flaneur]

One of my friends Rainer in Düsseldorf is in his late 60s and buys about 20 cases in every campaign. Many years ago he dug a cellar underneath his back garden which averages less than 50F in temperature. He buys a lot of halves/splits because his wines age slowly. He is still drinking through his halves of 85s. I asked him why he is still buying and his answer was succinct. I am planting trees for future generations he said.

I will be 57 this month and my plan was to make Barolo 16 my last campaign. I have had several aborted attempts to slow my buying. With a bit over three and a half thousand bottles and 30 years of buying I probably have enough wine to last, so I will only need to buy white wines. Well over 95% of my stash is red.

If I don’t fall on hard times or succumb to something my realistic aim is to taper my purchases and backfill, and keep an eye on the local Bacchus auction, which is held every two months. But I don’t feel so bad about buying when cash yields zero and these wines tend to appreciate in the medium term. To an increasing extent therefore one is investing for one’s children rather than consuming.

100% Blanquito is not done buying.

[JoelD]

I am glad that I got so invested into wine at a relatively young age (32 now). Although might have blown my load a bit early on with some Napa wines that I will have to sell!
I loaded up on 14/15 more than 16 so far due to the pricing that I could get.. but I did go fairly long on Calon Segur and LLC 2016's. Definitely need to get some Montrose, Mouton, Lynch Bages and others. Very excited to see where this vintage goes.

Looking forward to Gerry's sub $50 list too!

[stefan]

Only 54, O-Bobby? I am 75 and drinking as much wine as ever. Buy, buy, buy! You'll want to start drinking 2016s before you reach my age. Buy, buy, buy!

Ian, with fewer that 10 years of wine at your rate of consumption, why are you trying to slow down your buying when you are only 57?

[Musigny 151]

I don’t knew if still available, but there were some pretty good deals in the unsold on the younger vintages at Brentwood.

[OrlandoRobert]

Only 54, O-Bobby? I am 75 and drinking as much wine as ever. Buy, buy, buy! You'll want to start drinking 2016s before you reach my age. Buy, buy, buy!

Ian, with fewer that 10 years of wine at your rate of consumption, why are you trying to slow down your buying when you are only 57?

Awesome, Stefan! That’s what I needed to hear. One of my best drinking buds is my pops, who is 80, but I have to admit, his palate has changed in the last 15 years. I’m always mindful of that possibility.

The only wine my son will drink is champagne. The expensive crap. Entitled college brat.

[DavidG]

Robert, I’m 64. Thought my last serious young Bordeaux purchases were 2009. But 2010 was even better so I figured one more year and then I’m out. Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in again. First 2014, then 2015, then (OMG!!) 2016! Now it appears I truly am done buying young Bordeaux. I feel no pull from 2018. On to backfills where needed.

So I’m 10 years older than you Robert but stopped at the same point - 2016. I may never see them in their full glory. I sure hope to try them at 10, 15, even 20 years of age. If my taste buds go before I do I can always trade these in for more than my share of young slutty Napa Cabs or Chateauneuf.

[Blanquito]

With a bit over three and a half thousand bottles and 30 years of buying I probably have enough wine to last, so I will only need to buy white wines..

For some reason, this part made me happy. I can’t recall if I knew your cellar count before, and that it’s about a 1000 bottles more than mine makes all seem right in the universe. That and the fact that 3500 bottles will only “probably” be enough to last!