It's getting hot out there, let's talk VIN BLANC, BWE

[Blanquito]

White wine is neglected on this board, but BWE is who I want to hear from on this. What white wines are we drinking, buying, exploring, getting jazzed about these days?

I need to get more dry whites and bubbly (http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... start=1840), so let's brainstorm and share ideas, passions, deals and pet peeves on all things BLANC. And bubbly too.

To kick things off, tonight I am thoroughly enjoying a bottle of the 2017 Pierre-Yves Colin-Morey En Creuzilly Haut-Cotes-de-Beaune, which I clearly should have loaded up on when I could get it for $37 last year. Light, crisp, refreshing, delicious, with that subtle topnote of vanilla custard that I love on white Bourgogne.

[Nicklasss]

If you like Riesling, the 2018 Hugel Riesling is a major achievement at that price point.

I had 3 bottles until now, all quite the same. Best thing: the last bottle, we drank only half of it. The other half spent one night outside without cork, then i put it back in the fridge with cork, and had the leftover 6 days after... the wine was still great!

Nic

[stefan]

I have pretty much given up on finding a substitute for white Burgundy. When we need a Chardonnay and I do not open a Burgundy, we drink one from Oregon. I like Goodfellow, Domaine Drouhin, and St Innocent. Maybe "like" is too strong a word, though.

For less serious white wines, my preference is Pinot Blanc, partly because the Freedom Hill from St Innocent is really good. For serious non Chardonnay whites, I lean toward Alsatian Riesling, but we rarely have the right food match for them.

Maybe for a summertime white I should just drink a reasonable Macon. They are cheap and don't produce a gagging response.

[AlexR]

Hi Parrick,

One of the reasons white wine is neglected, as you rightly point out, on BWE is that it only accounts for about 10% of Bordeaux production these days.

Also, Bordeaux blanc unfotunately has kind of a bad name among wine aficionados (an opinion to which I do not subscribe).

People post about non-Bordeaux wines all the time on BWE, although tasting notes for white wines are not, as you say

White wine is often seen a a prelude before getting down to more serious reds. Frankly, I more frequently find emotion and complexity with red wine wines than with whites, although this is a generalization and, clearly, a prejudice.

In my "ideal meal" lineup, white wines would be in the minority.

All the best,
Alex R.

[Racer Chris]

Not time to switch to white wine in New England yet.
We're expecting snow on Saturday, up to 8 inches in northern Vermont and New Hampshire.
Probably no snow accumulation where I live, but will have frost on Mother's Day.

[JoelD]

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp? ... d=4AA4A048

Love some off dry hungarian whites for the summer. This is my favorite. Very small amount of residual sugar, probably about the same as a Kabinett. But it is a heartier wine, more complexity. Maybe like an Alsatian riesling or pinot blanc

[jal]

Patrick, I'm drinking a lot more white wines lately and JIll is drinking very little of anything. Almost everything is White Burgundy. Yesterday we had a 2016 Jean Louis Chavy Puligny 1er Cru Les Perrieres that was good but a bit soft and flabby.

I did go on the website of the Caveau de Puligny Montrachet yesterday and purchased 6 whites and 6 reds, all Burgundies. Prices even after shipping were 35% cheaper than in the US. The risks are shipping damage and tariffs, but even if I am charged tariffs, it will still be cheaper than in the US.

FYI, here are my white purchases:
Puligny-Montrachet Domaine Jacques Carillon 2017 x 3
Puligny-Montrachet 1er cru les Champs Canet Pernot-Bélicard 2016
Puligny-Montrachet Pernot-Bélicard 2018 x2

BTW, we went there in July 2019 and I bought a lot of wines, the service was great and I received everything in great shape.

And last, don't ignore Rosé, especially from Bandol or the Loire. Tempier and Pradeaux from Bandol, and Raffault and Baudry from the Loire are our go to, especially if one wants a bit more depth but there's nothing wrong with a simple quaffing rosé wine.

[sdr]

I have pretty much given up on finding a substitute for white Burgundy.

Sad but true

Like many, I have learned to enjoy them younger than in the past. I wish I could discover that obscure producer no one knows who makes Grand Cru whites for, like 50€. But not yet, so I pay up for the classics such as Lafon, Leflaive, Raveneau, Pierre-Yves Colin-Morey, Jadot, a few others. Still on the perpetual hunt for more of those sublime 2014s, fiendishly hard to source and I have been searching since release.

Still looking for a domestic chard that comes close without the painful price. So far Rhys Alpine is maybe the best - but still a big gap to the Real Thing.

Of course there is always champagne, the most reliable white wine of all.

Stu

[Blanquito]

Of course there is always champagne, the most reliable white wine of all.

Stu

Great stuff everyone, I have more thoughts to share shortly, but in the meantime, what's your go to bubbly for <$75, Stu et al.?

I used to be able to get vintage Pol Roger Blanc de Blancs for less than $75 (much of it came from Premier Cru actually), but those days are long gone methinks. I think my favorite bubbly right now in that price range is vintage Laurent-Perrier, I recently landed the 2008 for $59.50 all-in.

[JoelD]

Of course there is always champagne, the most reliable white wine of all.

Stu

Great stuff everyone, I have more thoughts to share shortly, but in the meantime, what's your go to bubbly for <$75, Stu et al.?

I used to be able to get vintage Pol Roger Blanc de Blancs for less than $75 (much of it came from Premier Cru actually), but those days are long gone methinks. I think my favorite bubbly right now in that price range is vintage Laurent-Perrier, I recently landed the 2008 for $59.50 all-in.

I can "1/2 down on that." My two recent favorites are both sub $37. Both have outperformed at least 10 sub $75 wines lately. And honestly just a smidge below some 2002 top wines that I have had in the recent past. Is my wine palate not up to par or are these just overperformers? Maybe a little of both. Curious to see what anyone else here thinks of them.

Jean Laurent Brut Rose NV(I had a 2011 disgorgement that was great and showing some oxidative notes but perfect to me) and have also tried the 2017 disgorgement that is drinking very well, young. This was my first whole case order of champagne at 33.33 a bottle. Highly recommend. I do not however recommend their Bdb, not one bit.

Also just had the Grongnet Bdb NV, at $37. Also highly recommend. Tasted like a baby Taittinger Comtes, but drinking better, younger because obviously its not as complex and needs less time in the bottle. Might pick up a half case at that price, or more if I can get for cheaper.

[sdr]

Of course there is always champagne, the most reliable white wine of all.

Stu

Great stuff everyone, I have more thoughts to share shortly, but in the meantime, what's your go to bubbly for <$75, Stu et al.?

A glass of Cristal Rosé.

Stu

Oh, maybe you meant a whole bottle, that’s different. I have enjoyed NV Pol Roger or Bollinger. I need a decent amount of PN in the blend or it’s too bland, not enough flavor.

[Blanquito]

Of course there is always champagne, the most reliable white wine of all.

Stu

Great stuff everyone, I have more thoughts to share shortly, but in the meantime, what's your go to bubbly for <$75, Stu et al.?

A glass of Cristal Rosé.

Stu

Oh, maybe you meant a whole bottle, that’s different.

Love your style, sir!

[AKR]

The whites we drink

NV Champagne & CA Sparkly (nice Pierre Gimmonet last couple of nights)
Loire - Vouvray, Muscadet, Sancerre & Savennieres (the latter two less frequently though)
Rhone - viognier driven CdR and Condrieu (Guigal, Barou, or Chambers St or Garagiste suggestions)
Riesling - German Kabinetts or QBA, generally like them better than Washington ones
Chard - I like commercial/popularly styled CA ones e.g. CsJ or Beringer PR is awesome for me. Actually do not like white Burg, Oregon etc. in this dimension.

White Bordeaux - other than maybe Clos Floridene and a few other Dubordieu consulted wines - are really not to my taste. I have some, and will consume them, but not with all that much glee. Perhaps some of the dry Sauternes will be better.

I was looking at K&L the other day, and realized that a lot of their direct import whites have been kind of disappointing for me over the last few years.

Fortunately the UC Davis style of winemaking works well for the regional whites, and despite all the best efforts of friends to educate me on classier fine whites, my tastes remain unrefined beyond enjoying Condrieu

[Blanquito]

Nice range of whites there, Arv.

For me, I think the white wine world is a target rich environment. I’m bored with most off-dry stuff right now and there’s plenty of stuff in California I find downright awful, but I thoroughly enjoy virtually all whites made in Europe. Sancerre, dry Vouvray, Chablis, Muscadet, Bordeaux blanc, Austrian Riesling, Alsatian whites of all kinds (if not sweet), champagne, Spanish whites, and with white burgundy at the top of the pyramid for my tastes. And there’s plenty of delicious Californian and Oregon chardonnay out there, even if it’s not a true substitute for burgundy.

I walk into chambers st wine, and ask the white wine/champagne buyer to put together a mixed case of vin Blanc for me, all between $15-$35, and I am invariably delighted. It’s almost all french whites and many from lesser appellations I haven’t heard of.

[AKR]

At any given point in time we might have a case or two max of whites/sparklies. Probably now is 16 btls or so. There might be few in storage, but few is really the operative word there.

We just buy it, drink it and reload. As I have plebian tastes in the category, I get negative value from aging them. I actually need some more at this point, so might look online. There's a bottle of Augustins Vouvray chilling right now for tonight; its supposed to hit mid 90s here.

Other than some of those Basque hard to pronounce whites (Txakolina or something) Spanish still whites are another category I find to be dismal.

[Blanquito]

Other than some of those Basque hard to pronounce whites (Txakolina or something) Spanish still whites are another category I find to be dismal.

The oxidative ones are an acquired taste, but I find the whites from Rueda to be cheap, floral, easy drinking, satisfying, food friend. They remind me of Torrontés except vinified a bit drier.

[stefan]

Funny thing is that at one time I liked oxidative whites, but no more. We no longer drink Sherry. I opened the other night an Arbois Vin Jaune (Jura wine) that was a gift from a friend from Besancon. Neither Lucie nor I liked it. I'll pour most of the bottle down the drain unless Lucie wants to use it for cooking something special.

Non oxidative Spanish white wines are OK, not that I seek them out. The only dry still white wines that I consider fine wines are white Burgundies and some Alsatian Rieslings. Maybe Haut-Brion Blanc, but it offers horrendous QPR for my taste.

[Blanquito]

Funny thing is that at one time I liked oxidative whites, but no more. We no longer drink Sherry. I opened the other night an Arbois Vin Jaune (Jura wine) that was a gift from a friend from Besancon. Neither Lucie nor I liked it. I'll pour most of the bottle down the drain unless Lucie wants to use it for cooking something special.

Non oxidative Spanish white wines are OK, not that I seek them out. The only dry still white wines that I consider fine wines are white Burgundies and some Alsatian Rieslings. Maybe Haut-Brion Blanc, but it offers horrendous QPR for my taste.

I like (but don't love) an oxidative white once in a while, but every wine I've had from Jura (which hasn't been many) I also found undrinkable.

If you like Alsatian rieslings, do you like any Austrian ones? Gruner is ok, but man does Austrian riesling light-up the pinball machine.

[stefan]

Not really. I drink Austrian riesling when I visit Austrian and have found them pleasant, but I have not been tempted to buy upscale ones.

[JimHow]

Francois gave me this bottle in NYC back in 2003, I don't know what to make of it.

[JimHow]

What is that, a sweet wine?

[Claret]

For me it is German Riesling, Chenin Blanc and some Italians including Soave and Vernaccia with fish. Also a few dry Australian Rieslings.

[stefan]

Jim, that is a Vin Jaune from Jura. It will be like a dry Sherry. It brings to mind Dry Sack.

[JimHow]

Yuck.