Who are your favorite wines and producers in Tuscany?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 12:15 am

My bottle of Felsina tonight has me thinking about Tuscany. There are so many great wines in Tuscany and many are still reasonably priced compared to the rest of winedom.

Here are a few of the standouts for me:
Super Tuscan: there are many that I’ve really enjoyed through the years — Sammarco, Lupicaia, Gagliole, Flaccianello to name some of the best — but my vote has to go to Percarlo.
Chianti: tons of value here and many that I like, but this easily goes to Selvapiana Riserva Bucerchiale.
Brunello: Il Poggione. (Honorable mention: Lisini)

What do you guys enjoy from Tuscany?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri May 22, 2020 12:32 am

Fontodi Vigna del Sorbo.

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Fri May 22, 2020 12:37 am

From Chianti two of my favorites are Villa Cafaggio and Barone Ricasoli.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 12:41 am

Nicklasss wrote:Like the BD, i would say none, as i'm a BWE.

Rancia in wine is like Rancid in music...

Don't get lost blanquito, stay in the Holy land, or next thing we will learn is that JS is your buddy...

Nic

This reminds me of the old saw, what do you get when you blend Gamay and Sangiovese together? Heaven.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri May 22, 2020 1:18 am

Col d'Orcia Brunello. Full of elegance.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:28 am

I drink more Brunello than anything else from Tuscany, and I like your choices a lot. There are many Brunellos I buy at several price points, so it is hard for me to say I have favorites. I am much less discriminating about Brunello than about Bordeaux. I mean, in Bordeaux I find great differences in wines from different appellations and look for typicity in the wines, but I enjoy Brunello purely by how the wine tastes.

I should experiment more in Chianti, which I tend to drink only as a cheap change of pace from Brunello. I'll try Selvapiana if I come across it.

I avoid super Tuscans. Why drink Cab from anywhere other than Bordeaux except when you are traveling and cannot have reasonable Bordeaux? Sure, Cabernet mixed with Sangiovese is not disgusting (unlike, e.g., Cabernet mixed with Syrah), but why bother?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:35 am

I hear you on cab-based super Tuscans, but most of the ones I like are mostly or entirely Sangiovese.

But wait, cab mixed with syrah?! That sounds awful. Fortunately I’ve never come across that.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 am

Brunellos:
Soldera
Biondi Santi
Chiantis:
Felsina Rancia
Fontodi

I stopped buying a few years ago, I found the wines produced after the great vintage of 2004 too generic and lacking in personality. I know, gross generalization, I apologize, but it was taking too much effort to find good ones, so I just gave up.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:48 am

Never had a Soldera nor Biondi Santi...

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri May 22, 2020 2:53 am

Blanquito wrote:Never had a Soldera nor Biondi Santi...

The old school producers. You'd love them Patrick. Wines of character and presence.

Frederico · Post by **Frederico** » Fri May 22, 2020 3:33 am

Blanquito wrote:
But wait, cab mixed with syrah?! That sounds awful. Fortunately I’ve never come across that.

Although not from Tuscany, I had two Cabernet/Shiraz blend wines from Australia and they were yummy. The Signature by Yalumba and Bin 389 by Penfolds

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Fri May 22, 2020 3:57 am

I tend to limit my Brunello purchases to the "good" vintages. Producers I have consistently enjoyed are Livio Sassetti Pertimali, Casanove di Neri, Gorelli La Pottazine, Il Poggione. I have resisted buying the higher end Brunellos as the price difference seemed hard for me to justify.

As for Chiantis, unlike Blanquito, I consistently get a lot of pleasure from the Felsina family, from basic Chianti, Riserva, and Riserva Rancia. I used to like Fontodi, but when their prices exceeded Felsina without any noticeable quality differences, I quit buying (I also found a lot of brett in one vintage that pretty much turned me off to them). For a $14 table wine for pasta, try the basic San Felice. Hard to beat at that price - at least for the 2015-2017 vintages.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:24 am

Most folks like Felsina more than I. I used to like Felsina a lot more, vintages before 2002, but the style shifted for me after that. I do still like Rancia a lot, it’s mostly their other bottlings that I find underwhelming

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:29 am

I'm a little cooler on Felsina too now. A bottle of 16 normale a few weeks ago was not as good as I thought it ought to have been.

I do buy/drink some Brunello, but its not much, and again, vintage snobby, so I only really purchased 2007 and 2010 in recent years. The bigger problem, like all the Rhone tete du cuvees, is that I'm not convinced that jacking things out with more oak make the wines better always & universally. If you like Biondi-Santi, try to track down Chiuse. From what I understand the vineyards were given to a grandchild and were used in the famed wine previously.

My marginal purchasing dollar is actually going much more toward Chianti and Rioja than any other region, now. Although not lighter wines, they are fine for drinking outside, in our heat. The Pomerol I finished this evening didn't suit that, nor my dinner taco salad so well.

Blanquito-I can recommend Rosemary's George's book on Tuscany btw.
https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi ... &p=2322536

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri May 22, 2020 9:20 am

I drink little Tuscan wine and the region has really fallen off my radar. I was really put off about 15 years ago by all the souped up Brunellos. It is my fifth region and I focus most of my time on the Big Four - Bordeaux, Burgundy, Piedmont and Northern Rhone.

Clearly though things have changed much for the better in the region in general and Brunello in particular but I feel out of the loop. Lot of names I have never heard of being awarded 100 points by James Suckling.

Having said that I do have favourites:

Brunello

1. Soldera - I have a single bottle left of the 2000, a superb wine but now frighteningly expensive
2. Salvioni
Two other producers I like are Sesti and Gorelli Potazzine

Chianti

Selvapiana
Querciabella
I used to drink Ruffino Ducale gold label, not sure if it is any good anymore
Not so keen on Fontodi and Felsina

Super-Tuscan

Tignanello - consistently outstanding and good vfm

Tignanello is an 80/20 Sangiovese Cabernet blend, at least it was the last time I looked. It works well. The Sangiovese dominates but the Cabernet adds a bit of finesse.

I have very few bottles left of super Tuscans. I sold all my Sassicaia and Ornellaia which are found wanting next to cheaper Bordeaux like Leoville Barton.

I do agree that Cabernet and Syrah are incompatible bed fellows as the Chateau Palmer Historique series demonstrates as does the hipster Domaine De Trevallon from Provence, which is 50% Cab, 50% Syrah. It doesn’t work.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri May 22, 2020 10:31 am

Supertuscan - Biserno Biserno

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri May 22, 2020 12:26 pm

How could I forget Salvioni?

Like Ian, my focus has also been on Bordeaux, Burgundy, Northern RHone, and Piedmont. I do buy the occasional Rioja, and sometimes a Marchese Antinori Chianti Riserva which has now changed its name to Tenuta Tignanello just to confuse us.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 3:01 pm

An Italian buddy started doing big horizontals for the wine group about 8–9 years ago — super Tuscans, Barbaresco, Brunello, Barolo, Campania, Sicily — and pretty much across the board these were great wine nights. It was a real eye opener for me. Now Antonio had an epic collection of mature Italian wines (>3000 bottles) and a classic palate preference, so the modernist crap like nuovo Brunello were eschewed.

We were having wines like giacosa and gaja, conterno and vietti, and everything was great. But the group that really turned my head were the Sangiovese based Super Tuscans, which we did two nights of (one night was just 100% Sangiovese wines like Flaccianello). Both groups were killer wines in my book, and the blended ones attained something new and different with that little bit of cabernet thrown in while still tasting distinctly Italian. One caveat: almost all of these wines were 2001 or older, so I can’t vouch for the current direction in super tuscans.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Fri May 22, 2020 3:03 pm

mrs vino has developed a taste for Brunello. I like Il Poggione but can find producers under $40 which are quite agreeable with some cellar time. A little off topic but Asimov/NYT had a column on Italian whites under $25 this week. I've enjoyed several different whites but my underdeveloped brain has trouble keeping up with all the grape varieties, some change names in different areas.

RPCV · Post by **RPCV** » Fri May 22, 2020 3:47 pm

I love a good Chianti and a recent favorite is the 2016 Rodano. To me, Chianti is one of the most satisfying wines to drink. They don't have a lot of complexity (aged Felsina and higher end Chianti's excluded) but they are so food friendly, especially with the correct cuisine. When I want a Brunello, I am a La Ragnaie fan.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:04 pm

Oh, that’s right, Rodano. The 01 Rodano Chianti Riserva was so good, and like $17 back in the day at PJs.

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:42 pm

I am sure that a lot of Brunello's and Super Tuscan's are very nice wines. My issue with buying/drinking them is: If I will spend $30+ I will want a characteristic wine from either Bordeaux or Rhone. I have not tried many of them and I am perfectly fine with that. There are so many wines in the world, the smile on my face when I drink a good Bordeaux or Rhone wine is what matters to me. Keep enjoining wine and posting about it. Happy Friday!

Best, Dan

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:14 pm

I have no experience with Rodano. For those of you mentioning Rodano, how would you compare/contrast its style vs. Felsina.

RPCV · Post by **RPCV** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:50 pm

Rodano 2016 is awesome. Posner at Grapes has it for $15 per. Stylistically this was a bit brooding when I first purchased it but recent bottles have been seamless, elegant and long. I am buying another case as this one as it will go for a few years given it's recent positive evolution. As compared to Felsina, I would say they are close in style with a cherry, cedar and smoky profile. For the money though, this is a true standout.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 pm

Blanquito - you might consider trying San Giusto Rentenntano's regular Chianti's if you like Percarlo. I've had some recent vintages, and would lay some away for the medium term if you are patient. I've been pretty happy with mass market Castello di Bossi, Nippozano, and San Felice too. Maybe the latter isn't so supermarkety.

I should also call out a few producers who I don't care for, despite their accolades e.g. Castell'in Villa, Isole e Olena (I've cooled on them too), Villa Caffagio, Monastero (not Monsanto). There's probably more.

Tuscany is making some really great merlot too, but I don't sense that people want much of that in a varietal bottling.

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Sat May 23, 2020 6:55 am

Nipozzano brings back memories. Used to see those for under $12 and they never disappointed for the QPR.

Brunello prices have come down and the Super Tuscan hype has faded with pricing coming down there as well. I enjoy a good Brunello (Siro Pacenti recently was a real treat) once every few months, but these days i'm not sure i'd spend the $50 bill on a Brunello over many competing French competitors.

As my palate evolves, i find many Italian wines to be more acidic and a tart cherry consistency that isn't always pleasant to be enjoyed by itself.

Some of the 2014 Bordeaux values Jim spoke of last year are simply unbeatable for QPR. Rhone and Languedoc still offer tremendous value as well.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat May 23, 2020 9:01 pm

AKR wrote:Blanquito - you might consider trying San Giusto Rentenntano's regular Chianti's if you like Percarlo. I've had some recent vintages, and would lay some away for the medium term if you are patient. I've been pretty happy with mass market Castello di Bossi, Nippozano, and San Felice too. Maybe the latter isn't so supermarkety.

I should also call out a few producers who I don't care for, despite their accolades e.g. Castell'in Villa, Isole e Olena (I've cooled on them too), Villa Caffagio, Monastero (not Monsanto). There's probably more.

Tuscany is making some really great merlot too, but I don't sense that people want much of that in a varietal bottling.

I have been watching for San Giusto Rentenntano's regular Chianti, as I’ve never had it and a local Italian wine aficionado raves about the 2014-2016 trivariate.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat May 23, 2020 9:04 pm

A big part of the appeal of Tuscany for me is the diversity of wines made there, and for the most part they’ve avoided the worst parts of modern wine making (a few notable exception in Brunello to the contrary). Moreover the wines are generally food friendly and inexpensive if you avoid the true creme de la creme.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat May 23, 2020 10:09 pm

In homage to this thread I pulled a 1985 Tignanello tonight, my penultimate bottle.

Bricking, browning. Delicious ripe, mature Tignanello with luscious morello cherries and fine savoury line of Sangiovese fruit and the minority cab adding a bit of finesse. Leather, and truffly earthy notes add to the appeal, but also tell you it is time to drink these up over the next couple of years. This wine will not improve and is probably approaching the end of its drinking window, but is a legendary wine in the Tuscany hall of fame. 92-93.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat May 23, 2020 10:21 pm

Thanks, Ian. I’ve only had Tignanello a few times and none nearly as mature as yours, but I’ve really enjoyed them. I’d be a buyer but for the nose bleed prices these days.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Sun May 24, 2020 7:31 pm

We're still drinking Tuscan wines pretty regularly.I think they can represent good value (outside the biggest names) if you like the style. No, it's not going to be like Bordeaux or the Northern Rhone. I've always liked wines from all over the place, relishing the variety, so the "I'd rather spend my XX dollars on <Put_Favorite_Region_Here>" mindset doesn't fit for me.

In Brunello, I still favor some of the old guard - Pertimali (Livio Sassetti), Ciacci Piccolomini, Caparzo, Altesino, Barbi - and I generally don't pay up for the riserva's.

In Chianti, I lean towards Monsanto, Felsina, San Guisto a Rentennano, and the occasional Castello dei Rampola.

For the predominately Sangiovese Super Tuscans based in the Chianti region, il Carbonaione is usually a great (relative) value and Tignanello, Percarlo and Sammarco are long-time faves that don't completely break the bank. I'm also a fan of Fontodi Flaccianello but the price has gotten past what I'm willing to shell out.

In Montepulciano (a town in Tuscany, not Montepulciano d'Abruzzu which is a different topic!), Avignonesi and Poliziano make Vino Nobile that are worth the money. And Avignonesi's vin santo is amazing but very $$$$.

(Anyone not interested in Cab, Cab Franc, Merlot or Syrah from Italy can stop reading now.)

In Bolgheri, while Sassicaia, Ornellaia, and Masseto dominate the airwaves, there are lesser known places that offer terrific wines for much less money. Grattamacco Superiore is a favorite, the second oldest producer in the region after it's neighbor Sassicaia. Le Macchiole is a great source of Cab Franc (Paleo), Syrah (Scrio), and Merlot (Messorio), each 100% of their particular grape. In my experience, Messorio is right there with Ornellaia's Masseto for 1/3 of the price.

Better value wines in Bolgheri that I still find interesting include the rosso's from Grattmacco and Le Macchiole, as well as rosso's from Michele Satta, Poggio al Tesore, and Podere Sapaio. I try almost anything new I see from the region, and have enjoyed wines from Biserno, Campo alla Sughera, Tenuta Argentiera, and many others.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun May 24, 2020 8:32 pm

You guys turned me on to Felsina, which is my go-to chianti.
I can usually get it from Zachy's at a decent price on sale.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sun May 24, 2020 8:33 pm

Tom in DC FOR THE WIN!!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun May 24, 2020 8:34 pm

Yes, Tom in DC = Italian wine.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Sun May 24, 2020 10:38 pm

I also agree with Tom in DC's list

Pertimali (Livio Sassetti), so far hands down. Old, Young, good vintage and off. Very consistently good wine

Felsina is good for chianti but I am still racking up experience here.

Not a big fan of super tuscans, however an off the beaten path is the Isole Cabernet Privata and the Collezione De Marchi. Which are similar wines, but the winemaker makes his own label some years(De Marchi).

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sun May 24, 2020 11:18 pm

Tom In DC wrote: (Anyone not interested in Cab, Cab Franc, Merlot or Syrah from Italy can stop reading now.)

In Bolgheri...

An awesome Cab Franc dominant Supertuscan from Bolgheri is Tenuta di Biserno, Biserno.
Not cheap, but well worth the tariff imo.

SF Ed · Post by **SF Ed** » Mon May 25, 2020 2:22 am

Folks, if you like Tuscan wines, take a look at wines from Umbria. Especially Sagrantino, but loads of others. Bea is a great famous maker but loads of wines to discover. Same with Le Marche. Not to mention Abruzzo. So much great Italian wine...

SF Ed

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Mon May 25, 2020 5:08 am

Completely agree, Ed, but I was trying to stay on topic (Tuscany) after so many remonstrations from the ITB (or quasi-ITB) types among us.

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Tue May 26, 2020 11:17 am

Have never tasted a Caparzo or Barbi that would have me going back to look for more. They are fine wines, and i could see how one could enjoy them, but i find some tartness and astringency that isn't pleasing to my palate. Ciacci Piccolomini on the other hand does a fantastic job with their Brunello. Own various vintages and always a treat.

Have stopped buying Tignanello and Guado Al Tasso as i just can't justify the price tag but i drank quite bit of these bottlings in the late 90's and early 2000's and remember the 1995 vintage as being very good and age worthy. The Super Tuscan hype really took the Tignanello to unreasonable pricing and maybe others are still in the hunt for this wine at $120 but i'm just not. I know you mentioned you don't go for the Riservas but the Antinori Chianti Classico Marchese Riserva still offers reasonable QPR.

Wasn't suggesting Italian wines don't have room in the cellar, its that i personally gravitate towards French wine varietals as i find the fruit, texture and nuances are more in line with what i look for in a wine. Have personally had more magical moments with French wine than their Italian counter parts. Could only have so much in the cellar and i'm sure we all make decisions as to what we want to own as we can't own it all. Was simply suggesting in more recent times i choose to pass on the Italian wines in favor of the French.

As i write this i'm still thinking about the 1999 Quinault L'Enclos that i finished off last night. I just don't find cassis, blueberry, velvety texture and smoky leathery undertones in Italian wines. If i could still find this at $35 i'd be a buyer.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue May 26, 2020 12:02 pm

The 2016 Quinault l'Enclos is a beauty, Emil, I have two more in the cellar to drink in my seventies.