Decanter is reporting this
https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/coun ... on-440392/
I'm not sure what the precise nature of this fraud is - faking old wine labels, or bottling up bulk wine as AOC wine, or god knows.
First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Hmm. A country known for giving the death penalty for spitting on the street gives a suspended sentence for wine fraud.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Stefan
Yeah I shook my head too.
The number of bottles involved was pretty large.
It says 10,000 but that is likely to be only ONE fake consignment and the sellers are clearly experienced in this regard.
The fines themselves were also small compared to the total value of the wine, given it would have cost little to make (or should I say fake).
It is worth noting however that just about everything is faked in China. Fake meat, eggs, rice, whatever, to Rolex watches, LV bags and the like.
I have travelled fairly broadly in China and there are masses of fake goods in every city, town and village.
Yet the mentality of the govt is that faking most goods is not a big deal.
It is a different matter if you fake baby formula and thousands of kids die from it.
But the attitudes at govt level is that they don't really care about fake luxury goods, and have argued that everybody knows they are fake in any case.
In the case of wine, you could be putting your life in your hands as well. Who knows what is in it.
It can and often does contain numerous chemicals that are dangerous and potentially fatal.
However, despite the occasion bleating about how they are going to eradicate fake wine, I would argue that you are better off drinking something else.
Also note that beer is often fake (yes, beer) and supposed purified water and spring water is often no more than tap water.
Further, never buy wine duty free in China. The DF stores are at least as likely to sell fake wine.
If you do get a real wine, chances are it has been poorly handled and stored, thus DOA when you drink it.
Yeah I shook my head too.
The number of bottles involved was pretty large.
It says 10,000 but that is likely to be only ONE fake consignment and the sellers are clearly experienced in this regard.
The fines themselves were also small compared to the total value of the wine, given it would have cost little to make (or should I say fake).
It is worth noting however that just about everything is faked in China. Fake meat, eggs, rice, whatever, to Rolex watches, LV bags and the like.
I have travelled fairly broadly in China and there are masses of fake goods in every city, town and village.
Yet the mentality of the govt is that faking most goods is not a big deal.
It is a different matter if you fake baby formula and thousands of kids die from it.
But the attitudes at govt level is that they don't really care about fake luxury goods, and have argued that everybody knows they are fake in any case.
In the case of wine, you could be putting your life in your hands as well. Who knows what is in it.
It can and often does contain numerous chemicals that are dangerous and potentially fatal.
However, despite the occasion bleating about how they are going to eradicate fake wine, I would argue that you are better off drinking something else.
Also note that beer is often fake (yes, beer) and supposed purified water and spring water is often no more than tap water.
Further, never buy wine duty free in China. The DF stores are at least as likely to sell fake wine.
If you do get a real wine, chances are it has been poorly handled and stored, thus DOA when you drink it.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
I've had trouble with eggs, the real ones, ever since Mark brought up Chinese fake eggs and prompted me to look into it. Way ickier than fake wine. You had to remind me again? Looks like another 6 months egg-free.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
David
Oh, sorry about that.
There IS a way of checking eggs.
Crack the shell BUT don't completely break the egg. Is there a thin, clear membrane that holds the contents together?
If yes, it is real so enjoy.
The fake eggs are easy to spot as they don't have such a membrane.
As for fake goods, expect anything and everything you buy in China to be fake. Rather than needing proof it is fake, the opposite applies.
The wine fakers are also working on the theory that many expensive wines are given as gifts and/or the buyer has no idea what they will taste like, or that the wine won't be opened until the fakers have retired and moved to Monaco.
Oh, sorry about that.
There IS a way of checking eggs.
Crack the shell BUT don't completely break the egg. Is there a thin, clear membrane that holds the contents together?
If yes, it is real so enjoy.
The fake eggs are easy to spot as they don't have such a membrane.
As for fake goods, expect anything and everything you buy in China to be fake. Rather than needing proof it is fake, the opposite applies.
The wine fakers are also working on the theory that many expensive wines are given as gifts and/or the buyer has no idea what they will taste like, or that the wine won't be opened until the fakers have retired and moved to Monaco.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
No worries, my cholesterol thanks you.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
David
Err, those fake Chinese eggs are apparently really low in cholesterol.
Sodium alginate, alum, benzoic acid and calcium chloride are cholesterol free!
Err, those fake Chinese eggs are apparently really low in cholesterol.
Sodium alginate, alum, benzoic acid and calcium chloride are cholesterol free!
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Yumm....
Well, not eating either of them is working for me right now, and leaves room in my diet for another steak every few weeks.
Well, not eating either of them is working for me right now, and leaves room in my diet for another steak every few weeks.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
I don't know why you'd need to put dangerous chemicals in fake wines when you can just use $3/bottle box wines.
But anyway, I notice they didn't mention the names of any of the chateaux that were being faked. Very curious about that, because I have long thought that Bordeaux super seconds in the $100-$300/bottle range, which many of us drink, were a good spot for industrial scale counterfeiters. It seems like an easier payday than the kind of Rudy Kurniawan bespoke bottle approach which rests on hand-crafting individual super-rare bottles to sell for pinnacle prices.
Think about it -- the super seconds are prestige brands that sell for high prices but at the same time are made in large quantities and sold routinely such that fakes could disappear into the broader stream of commerce without drawing attention. The super seconds make about 10 to 30,000 cases per year each depending on the chateau, say 200,000 cases total, you make 2,000 cases yourself, just a couple of hundred cases of fakes per producer, and clear $2.4 million if you make $100/bottle profit. They would be easy to sell almost as commodities and unlike Rudy-style auction forgeries wouldn't draw a lot of attention.
But anyway, I notice they didn't mention the names of any of the chateaux that were being faked. Very curious about that, because I have long thought that Bordeaux super seconds in the $100-$300/bottle range, which many of us drink, were a good spot for industrial scale counterfeiters. It seems like an easier payday than the kind of Rudy Kurniawan bespoke bottle approach which rests on hand-crafting individual super-rare bottles to sell for pinnacle prices.
Think about it -- the super seconds are prestige brands that sell for high prices but at the same time are made in large quantities and sold routinely such that fakes could disappear into the broader stream of commerce without drawing attention. The super seconds make about 10 to 30,000 cases per year each depending on the chateau, say 200,000 cases total, you make 2,000 cases yourself, just a couple of hundred cases of fakes per producer, and clear $2.4 million if you make $100/bottle profit. They would be easy to sell almost as commodities and unlike Rudy-style auction forgeries wouldn't draw a lot of attention.
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Marcus, planning your retirement strategy? 
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
Do I seem to have put maybe a little *too much* thought into it?DavidG wrote:Marcus, planning your retirement strategy?
Re: First fraud conviction in China w/r/t Bordeaux
I know I'm cynical but what are the odds that the convicted party had fallen out of favor with the government? Good PR for international trade but the guy was going down anyway?
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