La Conseillante with Marielle Cazaux

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:16 pm

We did this zoom whilst on holiday in France for the middle two weeks of July. I have been meaning to start a thread on our trip, because this was merely one highlight, but the technology, or lack thereof, has so far prevented me from doing so.

Two sets of wines successfully transported to Menton by 67 Pall Mall in plenty of time. The charming and effusive Marielle took over at La Conseillante from Jean Michel Laporte a few weeks after we visited with BWE in May 2015. Previous to that Marielle was the wine maker at AXA-owned Petit Village under the stewardship of Christian Seely.

Why Laporte left is a matter of some conjecture but there are parallels with what happened down the road at Figeac when Comte D’Aramon got his marching orders when Figeac failed to make the cut for a first growth-equivalent upgrade in the opaque St-Emilion hierarchy. As JML told us at the time he thought La Conseillante was undervalued given its inherent quality and the prices commanded by its illustrious neighbours, including Petrus and Cheval Blanc.

Worryingly Marielle was instructed by the Nicolas brothers, who own the estate, to fashion wines with more body and mid palate. Worse still the 2015 vintage was one in which Michel Rolland was given a free hand, and the 2015 Conseillante is a typically gloopy modern somewhat anonymous and anodyne Rolland creation. Warm and a tad over-ripe with 14.5% ABV it could however turn out well in 5-10 years ...

... like the now utterly marvellous 2009, another wine from a warm vintage which is now developing some alluring, schist terroir and mineral complexity and aged aromas of black truffle and mushrooms. It is silky seductive and sexy with a texture of satin and cashmere but not overripe, jammy or pruney at all. Another great 2009.

While professing to revere monsieur Rolland Marielle at the same time sought to distance herself from him noting that he sometimes has a preference for picking late, which she does not necessarily share. As with the equally youthful Frederic Faye at Figeac (Marielle we think is about 42) she conveyed the impression that she is calling the shots, something this audience wanted to hear even if we were not fully convinced given what happened to her predecessor.

Next up the 2006 and 2005 regarded as a pair. Both, but especially the 2006, had a beautiful and beguiling cherry nose, red strawberry fruits and enthralling secondary notes which are an utter turn on. The 2006 has some austerity still at the back of the palate while the 2005, which is slightly less seductive, has more mid palate stuffing, power and structure. Both will continue to age well.

The last two wines were the 2001 and the 1989. Unfortunately the 2001 was below par - a bit flat and oxidative - shame because good bottles are thrilling. The 1989 was a great bottle but the tawny colour is noticeably aged and it is a wine which will not last forever. But this bottle was a stunner. It was decadent, rich, silky with coffee and other tertiary notes, and a touch of Malbec.

We also opened our own bottle of 1998 which we both agreed was glorious and embodied many of the the strengths of the other wines. It took its time to get to where it is now but has been worth the wait.

In the discussion afterwards we asked Marielle about controlling the alcohol on these wines and she said that her ripest vintages have been slightly over 14% but not 14.5% and that it is an issue they are paying attention to. She noted that the estate plans to plant some Cabernet Sauvignon and is not ruling out reintroducing Malbec.

My pecking order:

1989, 2009, 1998, 2005, 2006, 2015; 2001 NR

Mek pecking order:

1989, 1998, 2006, 2009, 2005, 2015

I have been impressed by Marielle’s wines since she took full responsibility for the winemaking with the 2016 vintage, which is finest young Conseillante I have tried, eclipsing even the 1990 which I tried at the estate for the first time in 1993. I still think these wines are fairly valued especially given the prices fetched by some neighbouring estates. As well as the 2016 I invested in the 2017 and 2019. From the Laporte era I have 2006 (swapped for the 2004), 08, 10, 11, 12, and 14 all which have moved up steadily apart from the 10 which is still at its release price and a bit of a bargain. Like the 1998 the 1995 has only just started drinking well. I have not tried the 2000 recently and regret missing the train with the 2001. Overall a great estate over the years which still possesses its own unique and magical signature.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:30 pm

Nice notes, Ian. I have tried a few of Marielle’s wines, and agree that the 2016 is spectacular, for me far better than the 1990 which for me has never been as great as we first thought (preferred the 1989 every time we have had them side by side).

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:08 pm

Ian,

Just imagine getting a new job to months before the harvest and coming from a different estate. Marielle came to LC in July 2015 and she had to find out of many things first. I tasted 2015 LC in October 2018 and can't recognize your TNs of recently. Btw, Michel Roland arrived at LC in 2013 and you accuse him of destroying 2015 (?). What about following vintages, because he still consults LC? Since Marielle is fully qualified oenologist herself, I don't believe he's much involved in winemaking decisions. It's more outfield in the vineyard.

Imho, 2019 is the best vintage Marielle has made yet. Last month I tasted a sample of it at my home in Cph together with her via ZOOM . Here are my TNs:

"84% Merlot + 16% Cabernet Franc, 14.5% alcohol. Marielle Cazaux, winemaker here, used a technique called "debourbage" during maceration, which separates clear juice and solids, so the only clear juice comes back to the vat/barrel. Freshness, complexity, sophisticated and rich. Very blueberry and black cherry. Velvety fruit and tannin. Awesome structure, elegance and impressive length. It seems to me there is more precision in 2019 than in 2018 and more typicity of Pomerol. Stunning effort."

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:30 pm

Izak

It may be a language thing but you really need to wise up on your social skills, which are nonexistent or you really will become a pariah.

Yes Rolland came in in 2013 and Laporte defended his territory and guess what Laporte left and Rolland was given free rein with the 2015 vintage. Not so with 2014, but clearly the Nicolas brothers were pressuring Laporte to soup up his wines.

My impression is that Marielle is making great wines, in spite of, rather than because of, Rolland. Likewise Frederic Faye at Figeac.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:19 pm

Ian,

To compare reign of Michel Rolland to reign of Pascal Chatonnet who advises among others, Chateau de Beaucastel, Vega Sicilia, D'Issan and Cos d'Estournel. Concerning Pascal Chatonnet, he has been at Cos during famous 2009 vintage, which leads me to the conclusion that he wasn't heard at all.

I didn't mean to offend you.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:10 am

The Bordelais did not seem to realize how quickly Parker’s star faded.

Both d’Aramon and Laporte were arguably victims of relatively low RP scores.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:12 pm

Interesting how in life one persons loss is anothers gain. When we were at the UGC tasting last winter I found Talbots owner Jean Paul Bignon absolutely charming, approachable and a great sense of humour. I asked him directly about his perceived impact that Jean Michel Laporte is/will have at Talbot and he just smiled and said we expect great things going forward. We have always been proud of our wine but we hope to raise it to another level!!!

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:36 pm

Ian, nice notes on another nice set of wines.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:14 am

This is a shame, since I had a 2015 Conseillante at a vertical dinner with Marielle back in 2018 and loved it. It left me feeling good about the future of LC and also, to be more tangibly financial about it, I bought a half a case based on that dinner. So I hope Ian is wrong. But he could well be right -- it wouldn't be the first time that a wine which was flattering soon after release kind of fell apart afterwards.

I do concur on the wonderfulness of the 2009. I kind of wish Ian had said he didn't like the 2009 so I could just write off his palate as regards the 2015, but no -- he clearly knows a great warm weather vintage wine when he tastes it. I have three bottles of the 09 and it is now too expensive to reload on.

Also concur that the 2006 is quite good, we had that at the vertical as well.

What do people think of the 2014?

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:16 am

Comte Flaneur wrote:As JML told us at the time he thought La Conseillante was undervalued given its inherent quality and the prices commanded by its illustrious neighbours, including Petrus and Cheval Blanc.

Worryingly Marielle was instructed by the Nicolas brothers, who own the estate, to fashion wines with more body and mid palate.

These two factors were exactly why I fell in love with old school Conseillante. 1) while not cheap, it was inexpensive for the quality, and 2) it had a wonderful ease and lightness of touch to it, related to a lack of the frankly ponderous and clumsy "body", mid palate, and finish that characterized so many Parkerized right bankers. These are instructions to eliminate those great qualities.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:40 pm

I went long (for me) on 2016 Conseillante, one of the wines made under Cazaux' direction, in no small part due to Ian's enthusiasm for it. I haven’t popped one yet (too soon!), but I haven’t heard any complaints about a ponderous, clumsy, Parkerized wine.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:40 pm

Marcus

Re the 2015 it tasted to us like a typical Rolland creation but maybe it will develop complexity with age as the terroir shines through, as we are seeing with the 2009, which I also tasted in 2015 and was less enamoured by then. But now it is blossoming.

The 2016 was the most impressive wine I have tasted from that vintage, David, or first equal with Leoville Lascases.

Izak maintains the 2019 is even better. So took a punt on that one too. The other one I took a punt on was 2017 because it was discounted in a sale here recently.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:19 pm

I met Marielle Cazaux first time in 2012 I think at Petit Village.

However, she didn't have so much success with improving the quality. The opposite what she's achieved at La Conseillante.

She left in summer 2015 and was replaced by Spanish winemaker, Diana Garcia, married to the brother of Olivier Berrouet from Petrus.

Diana Garcia-Berrouet had probably her winemaking hands not tied up, because she immediately ordered a brutal selection of grapes for Grand Vin, only old vines going into Grand Vin and vinification parcel by parcel. Since 2015 vintage, her first it's been a big success in every vintage.

Maybe Marielle Cazaux had her winemaking hands tied up a little bit while working at Petit Village.

Last year I thought Marielle Cazaux made her best vintage yet (2018), but 2019 is at least equally stunning.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:01 am

Yup, I too bought a few 2019;Conseillante on Izak's recommendation.
Loved the 1989 and 1990 and enjoyed/agreed with your notes on the 1989 - still have a couple of those left.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:12 am

Bummer, no La Conseillante on my side. Will i ever buy some in the future?

Nic

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:59 am

Great notes. Love this estate! Well, I should say “loved” as in past-tense. I stopped buying after Rolland got involved, well, I did buy but have not tried the 2014. I’m guessing the vintage spared the wine from his goopy style, like what you note in 2015. I still cannot believe such stalwart classics like Conseillante and Figeac would bring in Rolland to change their styles.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:58 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote:Great notes. Love this estate! Well, I should say “loved” as in past-tense. I stopped buying after Rolland got involved, well, I did buy but have not tried the 2014. I’m guessing the vintage spared the wine from his goopy style, like what you note in 2015. I still cannot believe such stalwart classics like Conseillante and Figeac would bring in Rolland to change their styles.

Did you taste the wine to decide if you liked it or not Or have you already decided that you don't like current vintages of La Conseillante?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:09 pm

Very few of us are going to have as much experiences with these wines as you, Jeff, who visit Bordeaux every year, get dozens of wine delivered to his house, etc. We’re just expressing opinions on a friendly wine web site, it’s not world peace at stake.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:51 pm

Jim... It was a fair and friednly question. It is not about whether I taste more wine or not. It was about did the poster decide he did not like the wine because he tasted it, or did he conclude that just because?

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:26 pm

Unless I'm missing something, the point of reviewers writing reviews of wines is to help others -- who do not receive free samples -- decide what wines on which to spend hard-earned money. Now if the reviewers think that anyone else reading the notes and acting thereupon is foolish, why do the reviewers bother?

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:39 pm

OrlandoRobert,

You bought 2014, last vintage of Jean-Michel Laporte. Michel Rolland arrived in 2013!

I would ask the same question as Jeff.

One thing, however - Michel Rolland is not winemaker, he is a wine consultant. His influence is different from chateau to chateau. At some he only advises in the vineyard about the time of the harvest, etc. At other, he is involved in vinification but here the owner has the last word and the same thing occurs when final blend is decided. Frankly, I don't understand the bashing of him here.

He's still consulting Ausone I think. Can somebody tell me if this wine is overripe/overextracted/modern??

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:44 pm

Thanks for sharing all the back story of what is happening at La Conseillante, Comte and greatbxfreak.

That 1998 SF Ed shared with us a while back was quite lovely, so nice to see we were not outliers in our affection.

I do not understand the vituperative hatred for Rolland. For so many happy moments in our lives, he has been there vicariously, in a glass of Libournaise. He is like a Saint, but rather than Francis of Assisi with animals, he is the Muse of Merlot.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:33 pm

Tom In DC wrote:Unless I'm missing something, the point of reviewers writing reviews of wines is to help others -- who do not receive free samples -- decide what wines on which to spend hard-earned money. Now if the reviewers think that anyone else reading the notes and acting thereupon is foolish, why do the reviewers bother?

Here you have a fair point. Had the poster sighted my notes, or others and said it reads like a wine he would not like. I am 100% good with that. You are correct, that is the value of a critic. However, this is what he wrote, "I stopped buying after Rolland got involved,"

Those comments are just silly, knee jerk reactions to me. That's my view and he, and others can think differently. I am sure you are aware I have no problems with strong views. I just believe there should be a reason to have them, perhaps starting with actually tasting the wine. La Conseillante is pricey. But with intellectual curisosity, I would think 2 -4 people could split a bottle to see what ups with a wine they like.

FWIW, IMO, La Conseillante has never made better wines in the history of the estate than they are producing today.

On a different note, Izak and someone else... (but not Arv) you are both wrong. Michel Rolland became involved with the estate starting with the 2012 vintage.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:58 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
On a different note, Izak and Arv, you are both wrong. Michel Rolland became involved with the estate starting with the 2012 vintage.

Huh? I'm not sure where I mentioned anything about when/where MR got involved there. My comment about how glorious he is a generic one across all the wines in the universe he ever graced: I pretty much love them all. (even if 1998 La Conseillante had not yet received his touch of magic)

===========

I think all this ire at Rolland is a case of the Lady Doth Protest Too Much. It reminds me of when one of my good friends died rather abruptly (of an overdose) ... and we discovered his gay lover. He had always been outwardly very harsh & critical of that lifestyle, constantly accusing everyone of having a 'down low' life, denouncing it, and yet in the end, secretly harboring it.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:02 am

Arv... Sorry. My bad. Edited and corrected due to a senior moment.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:08 am

To Expound: the Hatred of Rolland is a manifestation of the Self Loathing oenophiles must feel when they realize they like something that is so plebian, so prole as a big juicy right bank, with a dollop of vanilla oak. I do not think anyone's winesnob credentials are impaired if they like a wine that is popular, or widely available!

I am a carnivore and can hold in my head the glories of eating a filet, even if I must wolf down a fast food hamburger at times. No cognitive dissonance.

As Jeff observes, its ok to like different kinds of ice cream.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:45 am

Jeff,

I'm sorry to say that you're not correct about Michel Rolland.

Please check out this:

https://www.la-conseillante.com/en/vin- ... el-rolland

2013!

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:34 am

Guys
A nice fruity, juicy Right Bank red with fillet steak actually makes me feel hungry and thirsty.
I started drinking Bdx in the 70s and in those days many if not most Right bankers particularly the less famous places were often relatively light and had for moi too much green tinges such as herbs, wintergreen or green capsicum notes. I can take a bit of herbal flavors - a touch or rosemary and thyme can be nice - but not overt astringency and vegetative flavors.

We have seen enormous change in winemaking over the yrs but there is a bit difference between a Fruit driven Merlot Based wine from one that is syrupy and overly sweet, or in some cases (like the 05 Tertre Dugay) which is overtly oaky and you have to search for any fruit hidden below the oak staves.

Some months ago I gave a list of affordable right bank wines that offer nice fruit. A few said that they were all modern styles (though I don’t necessarily agree) but I tend to avoid that herby, vegetal and light fruited style that was common some decades ago. I saw a movement to more round fruit in the 80s and 90s - okay some have gone a little too far but I’d argue that the traditional pre-80s style was over-rated.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:09 am

Jeff Leve wrote:
Tom In DC wrote:Unless I'm missing something, the point of reviewers writing reviews of wines is to help others -- who do not receive free samples -- decide what wines on which to spend hard-earned money. Now if the reviewers think that anyone else reading the notes and acting thereupon is foolish, why do the reviewers bother?
Here you have a fair point. Had the poster sighted my notes, or others and said it reads like a wine he would not like. I am 100% good with that. You are correct, that is the value of a critic. However, this is what he wrote, "I stopped buying after Rolland got involved,"

Those comments are just silly, knee jerk reactions to me. That's my view and he, and others can think differently. I am sure you are aware I have no problems with strong views. I just believe there should be a reason to have them, perhaps starting with actually tasting the wine. La Conseillante is pricey. But with intellectual curisosity, I would think 2 -4 people could split a bottle to see what ups with a wine they like.

FWIW, IMO, La Conseillante has never made better wines in the history of the estate than they are producing today.

On a different note, Izak and someone else... (but not Arv) you are both wrong. Michel Rolland became involved with the estate starting with the 2012 vintage.

Oh Jeffois, you know better than that. While I am not a wine critic that sits in my Villa in Beverly Hills, free samples galore, I am a bit more sophisticated than you are suggesting. I’ve easily had well over 100+ Bordeaux that Rolland has “graced”. Bottles, not “tastings”. While I will not discount every one, most simply did not work for me, some were just flat out not good for my palate. Why on earth would I shell out $250+ to get a sense of whether I would like what he has done with Conseillante? Once an estate flips to Rolland or his ilk, I’m out. Too many other quality options. Fool me once, shame on me . . . . You know the saying. It’s not worth the cost-risk, when I can take that $250 and buy something that I know for a fact I will love. And incidentally, no disrespect, but you and Izik liking it as much as you do, actually sends me the opposite direction. You guys have very modern palates, I’ve read hundreds of your notes, Jeff, and had many wines you have noted. You goosh over Pavie, I hate Pavie. We both did share a like for 2016 Les Carmes, I’ll give you that. But when you go big on wines, getting into liquid chocolate sex descriptors, I chuckle, often tease you, and then run to my little sanctity of traditional wines. When you score a wine an 89 and call it fresh and classic, I buy!

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:18 am

greatbxfreak wrote:OrlandoRobert,

You bought 2014, last vintage of Jean-Michel Laporte. Michel Rolland arrived in 2013!

Yes. I know that now. I did not know that then.

And that’s the problem, Izak, that you and Jeff do not appreciate.

For some of us, Bordeaux is a more storied, historic region producing classic, elegant wines. Conseillante has always been in that camp, for a Pomerol. I have bought it for years. Because its historic consistency, one could generally buy one’s favorite estates in futures without worrying about major changes, critics’ reviews, etc., assuming you knew the vintage was decent. But when these Chateaux now flip from consultant to consultant like a Karadashian with their men and purses, you don’t know what you are getting. I assume the vintage being more classic probably kept Rolland a bit in check - it did with the Figeac - but my gosh with a 2015 vintage that I generally avoided due to its ripeness, who the heck knows. I’m sure you guys love it, and that’s fine. Like ARV says, multiple flavors of ice cream.

Compare Leoville Barton to Poyferre. I love love the former, I do not like the latter. One is a classic stalwart, one is a Napa-style Bordeaux. It’s not bad, like say Pavie, Bellevue Mondotte, Troplong, et al - Rolland really seems to overcook the merlot - but it’s just not an interesting Bordeaux to me. It’s glossy, has no soul. I’ve had multiple vintages since Rolland took over and none have inspired me to buy more. Many of those bottles have been with BWE’r Bobby Goulet. Now that said, funny enough, I have 3 bottles of 2014 and have no clue how.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:38 am

OrlandoRobert wrote: Now that said, funny enough, I have 3 bottles of 2014 and have no clue how.

With a combination of price point and vintage; it looks like you took the flyer.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:38 am

In the great sandbox of Right Bank Bordeaux, the kids are taking sides. We agree that we like different types of ice cream (another plug for butter pecan and a nod to Cherry Garcia) but we cannot and will not agree on the wines. We are firmly in two camps, and all the notes, jibes, veiled insults etc is not going to change anybody’s mind.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:01 pm

Musigny
I think that having a range of styles is a good outcome.
Yet I think that there really are many ideologies about what good wine is all about rather than fitting into two immutable and distinct camps.
The traditional vs modern dichotomy to my palate is an exaggeration and most wines at classed growth level tend to be in the middle - more like a normal bivariate distribution than a binary system.
Having said that the vintages now are warmer and riper than in the 70s and we don’t have anything like the cold and wet vintages of the 60s and 70s.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:46 pm

I agree with Claudius in part. As I have said to Jeff, our palates can be charted in a Venn Diagram. When it comes to the true, high quality classic left banks and some Pomerol like VCC, our tastes and assessments tend to overlap. When it comes to merlot in the hands of modernist consultants, especially in warm years, our palates totally diverge. Some select left banks, like Lascombes, Pepe Clemente, Leoville Poyferre, et al, are divergences as well, but less of these on the left. This is how I see it.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:53 pm

OrlandoRobert,

It seems to me that you don't check the facts.

Troplong Mondot and Canon are not consulted by Rolland!! It's new star on oenologist firmament, Thomas Duclos, who advises both. His company Oenoteam consults also Bourgneuf, Beausejour Becot and Cheval Blanc.

Another consultant, Stephane Derenencourt, helps D.d.Chevalier, Canon La Gaffeliere, Beausejour Duffau, Pavie Macquin, Petit Village and Les Carmes Haut Brion.

Tertre Roteboeuf isn't Rolland either.

Overcooked Merlot? Nobody in higher ranks does nowadays a very late harvest in Bordeaux.

Pavie has downgraded substantially the extraction and use of new oak since 2014 vintage, after technical director Henrique da Costa wished to bring typicity of Saint Emilion back to Pavie. Angelus could imho benefit from downgrading certain things too.

I don't recall tasting Ausone overextrated and overripe since Michel Rolland arrived there. He's largely responsible for bringing Figeac back to fame. Here, Frederic Faye, the technical director has the last word. As Marielle Cazaux and Valmy Nicolas at La Conseillante.

I like both styles, classic and modern but I'm not too happy with overextracted and overripe wines. There's a style in Bordeauxx, called semi-modern, where I would put Leoville Poyferre and Lascombes and La Confession/La Croix St. Georges.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:04 pm

greatbxfreak wrote:OrlandoRobert,

It seems to me that you don't check the facts.

Troplong Mondot and Canon are not consulted by Rolland!! It's new star on oenologist firmament, Thomas Duclos, who advises both. His company Oenoteam consults also Bourgneuf, Beausejour Becot and Cheval Blanc.

Yes, I know, poor writing, on my part. They were disjointed (but related) points that I should not have put in the same sentence. Whether it’s Rolland, Bouard, Derenoncourt or their progeny, it’s almost all the same to me, modern gloss. Even worse in Rhone when we get to Cambie.

I know exactly who consults on what estates today - i read Jeff’s most excellent website!

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm

I’ve done many tastings with OrlBobby over the years...the absolute worst tasting was our Pavie flight a few years ago....when I reflect back on it I can’t help but be reminded of that Beegee’s song...Tragedy!!! I think the only vintage we could tolerate was the ‘99....the worst was the ‘03 which was a hot mess. As of this yr. the worst wine and probably the worst Bordeaux I have tasted in the last 5 yrs is the Rolland 2009 Le Bon Pasteur

Anyone who enjoys this wine has the palate of a yak..lol..I couldn’t run to a bottle Sociando fast enough.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:39 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote: Oh Jeffois, you know better than that. While I am not a wine critic that sits in my Villa in Beverly Hills, free samples galore, I am a bit more sophisticated than you are suggesting. I’ve easily had well over 100+ Bordeaux that Rolland has “graced”. Bottles, not “tastings”. While I will not discount every one, most simply did not work for me, some were just flat out not good for my palate. Why on earth would I shell out $250+ to get a sense of whether I would like what he has done with Conseillante? Once an estate flips to Rolland or his ilk, I’m out. Too many other quality options. Fool me once, shame on me . . . . You know the saying. It’s not worth the cost-risk, when I can take that $250 and buy something that I know for a fact I will love. And incidentally, no disrespect, but you and Izik liking it as much as you do, actually sends me the opposite direction. You guys have very modern palates, I’ve read hundreds of your notes, Jeff, and had many wines you have noted. You goosh over Pavie, I hate Pavie. We both did share a like for 2016 Les Carmes, I’ll give you that. But when you go big on wines, getting into liquid chocolate sex descriptors, I chuckle, often tease you, and then run to my little sanctity of traditional wines. When you score a wine an 89 and call it fresh and classic, I buy!

Honestly, you need to try wines before making such a strong view. Especially when even Mark G, your soulmate in wine shares my view.

Your bugaboo about Rolland is IMO, just plain silly. You might not like many wines, OK, no problem. But in most cases, especially at La Conseillante and Figeac, as well as at other high-end estates, he is there mainly for the blending. How is that an issue?

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:39 pm

Claudius2 wrote: Having said that the vintages now are warmer and riper than in the 70s and we don’t have anything like the cold and wet vintages of the 60s and 70s.

Amen! Global Climate Improvement has been a boon for the marginal AOC, AVA, DO, DOC et al that could never ripen. And now we've got a world where even chilly Oregon can pump out drinkable stuff!

Look at the majesty of St Estephe - with the clay underneath its perfectly poised to handle the warm, solar years to come. Even if they may never ever again achieve the singular air conditioning busting glories of 2003.

(but we can hope)

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:49 am

Well that is global warming for you. Stock up on the 2014 and 2016 vintages; in site of best efforts, they may become a rare classic vintage.