Favorite non-Burgundy white wine region or grape

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:45 pm

What's your favorite non-Burgundy, non-sparkling white wine region or grape?

I like white wine more and more, eclipsing red wine for many stretches especially in summer. But I need more options.

White burg is my (and everyone else's it seems) favorite white wine. And we all love champagne. But I need diversity of styles, flavors and prices.

My favorite non-burg/non-bubbly white these days is Austrian Riesling, but Loire whites are coming on fast. But its not fair to lump all loire whites, as there's chenin blanc, sauvignon blanc, and Melon de Bourgogne. It’s a tough call which I like best, but I guess I'd have to put chenin first in this grouping. And then there's white Bordeaux and chablis, which I don't lump in with white Burgundy in a narrow sense .

Here are my top 5 in order:
1. Austrian riesling
2. Loire chenin blanc
3. Sancerre
4. White Bordeaux
5. Chablis

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:56 pm

German Riesling
Chablis ( I would normally think of it as Burgundy but glad to accept your criteria)
Savienniere
Hunter Valley Semillon especially with age
Santa Cruz Chardonnay

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:58 pm

Since when is Chablis not in Burgundy!!

Agree with your first 3 but drink very few because of lack of supply. We love Albarino in the Summer and when away in a restaurant for menu wine always serviceable. Oregon Pinot Gris can be delicious but again not very available.

William P · Post by **William P** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:28 pm

Bordeaux- Sauternes
I think some of the Willamette Chardonnay vintners are doing a fantastic job.
German Rieslings.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:37 pm

Technical note: geographically Chablis is of course a burgundy wine and it uses the same varietal, but stylistically I almost always find it so distinct from the rest of the region that I internally consider it “separate”. Plus, it’s priced in a different league too.

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:47 pm

Sigalas Santorini Assyrtiko; great minerality.
Sancerre
Veneto from Alto Adige, especially Alois Lageder.
Txakolina (love the little fizz, especially with oysters, yes more than Muscadet)
And last Albariño

As far as Chablis not tasting like Burgundy, I bet a tasting of William Fevre 2018 Chablis will convince you otherwise, Patrick

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:54 pm

I assume you refer to dry white wines.

1. Chablis
3. Oregon Chardonnay
2. Alsatian Riesling
4. Sancerre

(I drink more Oregon Chardonnay than Alsatian Riesling but rate Alsatian Riesling higher.)

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:05 pm

Ok, I clearly need some Oregon white recs!

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:35 pm

For me Chablis is Bourgogne.

If i go out of Bourgogne:

1. Great dry riesling
2. Sancerre/Pouilly-Fumé
3. Muscadet
4. Dry chenin
5. Entre-Deux-Mers
6. Excellent Soave (like Pieropan)

Let say i like a few dry white from Rhône, but i'm not a fan of viognier. Tough time with Mâcon too, just like a few. Grutler Vetliner can be fine.

Nic

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:20 am

1. Sancerre
2. Muscadet
3. California Chardonnay
4. German Riesling
5. Vouvray / Savennieres

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:24 am

More broadly, my favorite summer wines:

German Riesling - Kabinett and Spatlese
Rose from France (Rhône and Provence) - Yes, I know, these are made from red wine grapes.
Pinot Grigio from Italy
Sancerre
Sauvignon Blanc from Virginia (Glen Manor Vineyards)

Chris Bublitz

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:00 am

Guys
I've always thought of Chablis as part of greater Burgundy.
Up until a few yrs ago I would certainly have included it in my list but I keep being disappointed by Chablis recently.
Most taste like some generic unwooded chardonnay from nowhere of note. That's why I called in Les Miserables recently.

My favourite other varieties and regions for dry whites are as follows:

Margaret River Chardonnay - best place in the world for this grape outside of the best white vineyards of the Cote D'or.
Southern Victoria Chardonnay - a big area including Mornington Peninsula, Geelong/Bellarine, Macedon, Yarra Valley and Beechworth. Actually Beechworth makes two of the best chardonnays in the world - Giaconda and Savaterre.
Adelaide Hills Chardonnay - especially Lenswood, Bridgewater and Piccadilly Valley. Tasmania is also producing very good cooler styles but not in the same volumes.
Hunter Valley Semillon - however I qualify this as much is now being made in a very bland commercial style. Stick to McWilliams and Brokenwood. Also age it 10 yrs.
Clare and Eden Valley Riesling - I think these regions - especially Polish River and Watervale - make the best riesling in the world. Good examples are also made in the Adelaide Hills, Frankland River WA, southern Victoria and Tasmania

Yes I know I am parochial, but other than Burgundy, I think Australia makes the best white wines in the world. ANd there are a large range of styles across the regions.
I have visited NZ many many times and have rarely found a chardonnay I like and their riesling is too sweet.
I've also visited Napa, Sonoma, Santa Barbara, Monterey etc, but i prefer Australian wines.

However, I am not at all parochial when it comes to red wines, as France still seems to have the upper hand for their classic varieties.

hautbrionlover · Post by **hautbrionlover** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:34 am

1. Loire Chenin Blanc
2. White Bordeaux
3. Godello

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:29 am

Aged German Riesling.

Claudius2 wrote: Hunter Valley Semillon - however I qualify this as much is now being made in a very bland commercial style. Stick to McWilliams and Brokenwood. Also age it 10 yrs.

I used to love aged Hunter Valley Semillon as well. Though you make a good point, as more recently I have found them to be surprisingly light and bland. They are also hard to find (aside from Tyrrells).

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:31 am

C2

Unfortunately where I live in Canada I have not had the pleasure of accessing any of the Australian whites that you've mentioned. Do they even have enough to export overseas to the North American Market? I'll keep an eye out but there is so much great wine out there today price point becomes a big issue with me now. I wouldn't be stocking up on red Bordeaux today like I've done over the years and I've loved white Burg's but they're going for silly money too as are most great white Bordeaux. I mentioned recently that Malartic Lagraviere was delicious but on sale 40% of at $89 per not exactly cheap.

Ontario does a great job with Riesling of all levels of sweetness but my wife doesn't like them and aged Riesling when it takes on diesel notes from anywhere is off putting to us.

I've had some pretty good Sicilian Chards but again we don't see them often which is a theme when people mention wines outside of the Bordeaux world access to some of the wines mentioned is a problem and I don't believe unique to here.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:51 am

I consider Chablis to be white burgundy too so will not include in my list. I am also not going to include sweet wines, like Sauternes.

1. Top dry white Bordeaux - Haut Brion Blanc, Laville, SHL, DDC, Pape Clement Blanc
2. Top white Rhone - Chateau Grillet, Chave Hermitage Blanc, Sorrel Hermitage Recoules
3. Top new world Chardonnay, Ceritas from California and Bindi from Australia
4. German Riesling
5. Top SA Chenin Blanc like Lukas Van Loggerenberg

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:29 am

German Riesling
Loire Chenin Blanc

RPCV · Post by **RPCV** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:40 am

My top non-Burgundy whites.

1) Austrian Riesling/gruner
2) Hamilton Russell Chardonnay from SA (very Burgundian)
3) Loire valley: Chenin blanc, muscadet
4) Alsace Riesling
5) Is champagne cheating?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:16 pm

I've always preferred Sauvignon Blanc and/or White Bordeaux over other white wines. I enjoy a wide variety of styles although I don't care for ones showing cat pee or lots of grass.
More recently I've been enjoying Alsatian and, to a lesser degree, German Rieslings.
A bottle of Albarino I had recently encouraged me to try that varietal a bit more too.
I'm generally not a fan of Chardonnay, except as Champagne or Chablis.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:51 pm

Danny
I know I probably sound overly parochial but during the last few decades, Aussie white wine producers have moved to more complex styles with minerality and balance. Luckily the over-wooded style with leesy and malo characters has gone out of fashion.
I’m presently drinking a Remoissenet St Romain 2014 and I love this wine. I imported it directly and can’t believe a white Burgundy at this price point (about 11 Euros) is this good. So irrespective of parochialism nothing is as good as white Burgundy. I am also thinking that 2014 is possibly the best WB vintage I have ever tried. Even the Givry at a lowly E8 was nice. I bought 22 cases of 2014 and 2015 Remoissenet wines and when I drink them I can’t help thinking that this is the best place on earth for Chardonnay.
Cheers
Mark

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:16 pm

No love for white Rhones? I guess I'll continue the trend...

Alto Aldige/Friuli
Sancerre
White Bordeaux
Old school Cali Chard
Soave

tim · Post by **tim** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:48 pm

For me it is:

1. Alsace Riesling
2. Alsace Gewurtztraminer
3. Albarino
4. White Bordeaux
5. German Riesling

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:07 pm

Fascinating range of preferences here.

A few random thoughts... I used to seriously dig German Riesling but I grew tired of the off-dry style in general and dry germans are too pricey. I really like the top Alsatian dry Rieslings, but there are too few producers I get excited about there. Austrian Riesling (I find Gruner a little dull) has really filled this void for my palate, I basically like the smaragd’s from all top 30+ or so producers there and the Federspiels are good too. Prices have crept up, but deals can still be found.

I forgot about Fruili, I used to really enjoy those, I should look there again. Love tom’s shout out for Soave too.

I’m surprised white bordeaux gets so little love, I know it’s expensive but it can be profound in my experience and the cheaper ones are quite good too (see Carbonnieux).

Another reason I separate Chablis in my internal groupings is the compete separation of producers there from the rest of burgundy. I suppose the big negotiants make Chablis too, but all the top Chablis producers only seem to make wine from Chablis, even when they have numerous bottlings and vineyards, and the reverse is true for Côte d’Or.

I’d like to try more Australia whites, but I never see them in the USA.

Top cali chard can be really good, but it rarely seems to thrill like burgundy, so it needs to be a good bit cheaper to keep my attention.

How much is age worthiness still a criteria for a great white in the era of premox? I will give german Riesling it’s due, those still age wonderfully. But what else can still do that? Not only hold but improve? Champagne for sure. Some white bordeaux.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:25 pm

I'm not a huge fan of white Bordeaux, but to Tom's point I'll put white Rhones on my list in the number 3 slot.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:39 pm

My top Non-burgundy whites...

1. German Rieslings (what a versatile grape, from bone dry to sweet)
2. Chablis
3. Sauternes
4. Torrentes (I love spicy food, and Torrentes pairs well, when done right)
5. Gewurtztraminer/Chenin Blanc

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:41 pm

I don't see Jim's take. Oh, let me weigh in for Jim...

1. White Bordeaux
2. White Bordeaux
3. White Bordeaux...

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:19 pm

Me too I'm not a fan of dry white Bordeaux, except the very well made basic ones, when you don't have expectations.

For the expensive Pessac Léognan, not for me. Too much of un-integrated oak, tropical fruits and low acidity.

I really like acidity/freshness in my dry white. This is probably why I did not add the white Rhône within my favorites.

I forgot Friuli That I like very much too.

Nic

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:18 pm

I have been disappointed so many times by White Rhones and White Bordeaux, no mas for me.
Dry Riesling, Torrontes and Gewurztraminer are fine with Asian fare but otherwise, no thanks; I'd rather have sake or beer.

Obviously White Burg before anything else.

But in Italy, I like as I said, Veneto (Friuli)/ Alto Aldige but also Orvietto, and Falanghina from Campania
In Spain; Albarino hits the spot more often than not.

I really am not a fan of Muscadet.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:46 pm

I just had a 2018 Pepiere Muscadet the other day -- which I opened with a little trepidation given how ripe the vintage is reputed to be -- that was really quite terrific. Reminded me of Burgundy a little. And of course, it cost only $18.

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:28 pm

Difficult:
I have a taste for German riesling Kabinett, Spatlese and Auslese with their low alcohol level... great summer drinks but also all year long
For dry Riesling, I believe Alsace significantly better
Loire whites have a lot of diversity and many are just gorgeous
Bourgogne Aligote is also great and not Chardonnay based

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:30 pm

Antoine
For me it is easy.
Australia makes Riesling that is at least to my palate mikes better than anything from Germany, Alsace, NZ, USA or anywhere else. there are many regions in Australia that produce really good dry Riesling and it is an under-rated variety these days.
Most white varieties to me are either nasty, boring or okay but not great.
I have an aversion to Sav Blanc especially from NZ and it is arguably drinkable from The Loire. But why bother when I can drink Chardonnay or Riesling or aged Hunter semillon?

The only white Bordeaux I have ever really liked is Haut Brion Blanc and maybe Domaine Chevalier or Laville HB. Chenin Blanc is sometimes okay and most white Rhône’s are low in acid and show no minerality or complexity. They seem to rely on alcohol instead. As Australia is a hotter place maybe whites get more attention.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:02 pm

Not surprisingly, I agree very much with both David and Tim. Order from 2-5 could be mixed around depending on mood.

1. German Riesling
2. Loire Chenin blanc
3. Alsatian Riesling
4. Sancerre
5. Hungarian off dry whites, probably the best bang for buck on this list.

Albarino and Autrian rieslings didn't quite make the final cut as they don't tend to have the same oomph and refreshing taste as the others

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:27 pm

I seem to have such different tastes than everyone else. In general, I keep maybe a case or two of these in aggregate, as they're just bought and consumed, not really cellared that much unless by accident/fluke/whim. In this category I have a real preference for screwcap finished, since I find TCA easier to notice in whites, and this is with the caveat that I'm generally not sensitive to that taint.

I like these, not in any order

viognier based No Rho whites, doesn't have to be only Condrieu AOC, as there are more and more good ones now. Guigal's blanc CdR is really pretty good, and avoids the heavy oak the bigger wines get. Paret, Barou, Villard, Vins de Vienne also good in this space.

big plump Cali Chard! Beringer PR being a glaring example. But the same style can be found in a ton of producers, since they are - for my tastes - great to drink by themselves. Maybe not so food friendly, but I like them. A few French country estates are cloning this style (e.g. Novellum) too.

German kabinet level riesling, especially with Indian, Thai or that variant of food. I really don't get much out of the higher pradikats, even if they can run longer. Finally finished the last of my 2001's, which were the results of good advice from our Pappdoc.

Loire chenin blanc - from Vouvray and Savennieres. The former for fruity up front fun, and the latter for steely ageworthy whites. Champalou and Baumard are my favorite producers here. Although not chenin, Sancerre and Muscadet are good too, but I don't have real producer preferences here. My supermarket has been ok with picking those out for us, as I'm not going to mail order / pay for shipping on the Sancerre/Muscadet categories.

It's fortunate for my wallet that my tastes are commercial & mass market in whites! I just don't detect all the magic others get in white Burgundy, fine white Pessacs, tete de cuvee Champers etc. The oxidative/sherry/nutty whites like LdH, Musar etc. I find to be flat out gross. White Hermitage is also kind of hit or miss, so I'll pass on laying that down.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:54 pm

JoelD
Your mention of Hungarian wine makes me recall a trip there several years ago.
Whilst wine wasn’t the central purpose of the trip, in Sopron (which is the far western part south of Vienna) there was a local vigneron who sold bulk wine. You could take your own bottles and he’d fill them for about E0.50 a liter and he was generous with volumes. Being close to the border merchants happily took Euros rather than Forint.
Anyway I’m rambling a bit but the wines were both French varieties and local cultivar. For the price I was amazed that they were actually not just drinkable but quite interesting. So I drank Hungarian wines for three weeks or so including a fair bit of Tokay. Not all were good wines but It was fun trying wines that were different to anything else. I was a little surprised however that I saw Penfolds Grange at local wine shops.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:29 pm

Claudius2 wrote:JoelD
Your mention of Hungarian wine makes me recall a trip there several years ago.
Whilst wine wasn’t the central purpose of the trip, in Sopron (which is the far western part south of Vienna) there was a local vigneron who sold bulk wine. You could take your own bottles and he’d fill them for about E0.50 a liter and he was generous with volumes. Being close to the border merchants happily took Euros rather than Forint.
Anyway I’m rambling a bit but the wines were both French varieties and local cultivar. For the price I was amazed that they were actually not just drinkable but quite interesting. So I drank Hungarian wines for three weeks or so including a fair bit of Tokay. Not all were good wines but It was fun trying wines that were different to anything else. I was a little surprised however that I saw Penfolds Grange at local wine shops.

That sounds like a great trip. Can't beat the value in Hungary in general. I really need to get out to their wine country as I loved Budapest, but most of my tastings came at restaurants there and purchasing bottles in the US. Somloi Harslevelu is awesome and I have loaded up in the past when I found bottles that I liked. My favorites have a very small amount of residual sugar, usually around 2-3g/L and are one of my favorite summer wines for sure. A very good middle ground between sweeter German rieslings and drier whites.

I haven't tasted much Australian riesling, if you have any good recommendations that are available in the states I'd love to hear them.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:03 pm

Joel
I spent a week in Hungary last year and the more I experience it the more I like it. Next trip I plan on visiting eastern Hungary and the Balkans. These areas are changing fast but I sometimes like the simple charms of eastern and Central Europe.

SherilynDominion · Post by **SherilynDominion** » Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:08 am

It's very challenging to find a good wine. You see, many people talk about wine, but very few put their money where their mouth is and buy what they're talking about. This is why you must learn about wine and allow yourself to be educated on what is good and bad wine. You don't have to be a wine expert to enjoy wine; however, many of the wines are affordable and enjoyable if you know where to look for them. Anyway, I don't buy very often, but I search for Italian wines prices from the finest online shops when I do. In this way, I get only the best offers.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:46 am

SherilynDominion wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:08 am It's very challenging to find a good wine.

Lots of good suggestions in this very thread and hundreds of others. What have you liked/disliked?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:20 am

Winesearcher is all I need.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:03 pm

Winesearcher is great if you know what you're looking for.