2014 Chateau Margaux at $339... Yes? or No?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:00 am

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:32 am

I would say yes. Even if i'm a poor guy, i would consider buying a bottle at that price.

Nic

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:36 am

I have that option as well, have been considering the same question.

Along with Haut Brion 2002 for 265?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:41 am

Well, it is a tough call. I'm hesitating now. For sure if you like classical red Bordeaux, Margaux aoc perfumes, and this is a Mr. Pontallier wine, why not going for it?

I think you don't need more bottles Jim, but that type of bottle is always a nice monument to have. And to enjoy one day.

Nic

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:18 am

Buy three 2014 Pichon Lalande instead.

tim · Post by **tim** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:54 am

Would you buy an 89 Lynch Bages at this price? Would the 2014 Margaux give you more pleasure than an 89 Lynch Bages.

If you can answer those questions, you probably have your answer.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:04 am

YES
Gotta be a buy at that price and 2014 is turning out well.
For European prices, check this site:
https://bordoverview.com/?year=2014&bank=left

really useful summary. EU price in bond is E350. Tax and fees need to be added thus USD339 is cheap.
cheers
Mark

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:22 pm

Yes buy - good price, good vintage, a fifth of the price of the 2015, Paul Pontallier’s penultimate vintage.

I can just imagine how good this might be.

Joel $265 is a good price for 2002 Haut-Brion. Graves is very good in 2002.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:37 pm

Yeah I recently paid $400 per bottle for three bottles of 1989 Lynch, but that was crazy.
I already have 10 bottles of 2014 Pichon Lalande.
Man, I can get almost a case of the 97 point 2019 Tour Saint Christophe for the price of that one Margaux.
But... You only live once.
I’m planning on buying a bottle or two of 2016 La Conseillante at $220+, what’s an extra hundred bucks for a chance to buy a Margaux, one bottle of the ‘96 is my lone bottle in the cellar.
Looks like they are doing some close out pricing on a lot of wines, Gerry.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:40 pm

Both these prices (the Margaux and the Haut Brion) are well under the *global* (anywhere in the world) low listed on Winesearcher so seem like a relative bargain.

The 2014 La Mission Haut Brion, not FG but often comparable, is available under $200...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:47 pm

Yeah, the word "relative" is the key.
It's a good bargain but not anything knocking me over.
I got the 2014 LMHB for $180+.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:51 pm

>>
Man, I can get almost a case of the 97 point 2019 Tour Saint Christophe for the price of that one Margaux.
>>

Sure, but it does not have to be "either-or". Buy a case of TSC and a bottle or two of Margaux and congratulate yourself on the low average bottle cost.

I had mixed experience with 2014s this weekend. The second (sic) wine of Meyney was wonderful for its class while the 2014 Clos de L'Oratoire was unyielding and had gritty tannins. I drank only a glass. I'll revisit the Clos de L'Oratoire tonight.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Yes, but a couple of bottles.
Good comparison to 1989 Lynch. It’s what is called an interesting dilemma

jal · Post by **jal** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:08 pm

The first time I met you were very happy with a purchase of 1997 Mouton for $82
I used this website to see the 2020 value of 2001 $82 against inflation and against the S&P500:

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflat ... ?amount=82

It seems that to make the Margaux as worthwhile, you would need to buy the bottle for $120, or compared to the S&P $285

To help you rationalize the purchase, if you were willing in 2001 to pay $100 for the Mouton, then the Margaux would be worth $345 as indexed to the S&P.

There you go, buy yourself a case, I'll meet you at La Bonne Soupe in a couple of months, bet you wouldn't be able to buy a La Tache for $1,043 ($300 in 2001).

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:18 pm

lol... You BWE devils!
okay, I'm buying ONE bottle!
And I will uncork it in ten years in the back room of Le Bonne Soupe, midtown Manhattan, with you and any other BWEers who want to join us!

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:29 pm

Buy buy buy!

You know this vintage is classic!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:37 pm

On a serious note 2014 is the vintage to buy. Here in Blighty it is generally cheaper than 2011, 2012 and 2017. I just bought a six pack of Pichon Lalande for £440 ib, and there are plenty more on my 2014 hit list.

In a new age of global warming it may become a treasured vintage. Disclaimer: I was very slow and late to realise the potential of this vintage unlike Jim, Robert and others.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:41 pm

I have more 2014s than any other vintage, including 2016.
It is a borderline outstanding vintage.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:42 pm

And the prices are some of the best in 20 years.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:08 pm

My inventory of 2014/2015/2016:

2016 18.6% Bottles (155)
2015 12.9% Bottles (107)
2014 28.7% Bottles (239)

Is this the greatest triumvirate of vintages since 1988-90?

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:10 pm

JimHow,

Yes, you buy! Cheap! I only gave 60 Euros more for Mouton R.

Anyway. you'll have to wait a long time to enjoy Ch. Margaux 2014. Some months ago when I tasted it, this wine was completely shut down.

Imho, this vintage will live for a long, long time due to an excellent acidity obtained by grapes during excellent weather in September in October. A truly classic cool climate Bordeaux vintage.

Anyone interested, please read my comments about growing season etc. in 2014 - https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vintages/2014

I haven't purchased a lot of 2014s - only Mouton R, Montrose, La Lagune, Calon Segur, Beychevelle and L'Eglise Clinet.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:15 pm

Thanks for the report, Izak, I'm definitely interested in understanding what happened in 2014.
It seems like such a classic, classic vintage. An ultimate JimHow kind of vintage.
I've just thoroughly enjoyed the style, it is an absolute sweet spot for me.
And the pricing... Gerry and I got the 2014 Mouton for $325 on sale in NH.
Now you're tempting me to buy two bottles of Margaux, rather than one.
I see the Mouton is sold out, they cracked open a case in Gerry's favorite Nashua store to sell me one at $325.
Looking forward to reading your report....

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:21 pm

JimHow,

1988 is classic, especially in Pomerol, you can compare 2015 to 1989, but 2016 to 1990? I prefer 1990 over 1989.

Still, Angelus 1989 and 1990 are some of the best vintages of this property I've ever tasted, before the change of style for much more modern.

For my birthday party in December 2016 (70 years anniversary), I prepared a flight of 6 1990s, Le Pin, Cheval Blanc, Montrose, Troplong Mondot, Angelus and Beausejour Duffau. Unforgettable experience.

Now the other trio of vintages is approaching - 2018-2019-2020

.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:35 pm

Oh man, greatest decade since... the 80s?
Better?/Different?

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:15 pm

Very different. The wines are richer, more opulent, and concentrated than the eighties. On the other hand, they have lost more than they have gained. Precision, terroir, freshness and a little hardness for balance. Many will love this brave new world. I am very skeptical that these wines will make for old bones.

On the immediate question, should you buy the Margaux? My initial reaction was yes; but on reflection, I would say that you are better off saving for the Mouton 2016. The Mouton quite frankly is the finest young Bordeaux I have ever tasted-it would be a shame if you never got to try it.

The Margaux is a good wine but not as good as some of the Pomerols in 2014, most notably VCC, with an honorable mention to L’Eglise Clinet.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:20 pm

greatbxfreak wrote:JimHow,

1988 is classic, especially in Pomerol, you can compare 2015 to 1989, but 2016 to 1990? I prefer 1990 over 1989.
.

I would say it is the other way round; I would equate the 1990 with the 2015, and the 1989 with the 2016. And of course, it won’t surprise you to hear, given our palate preferences, that I prefer the 1989 to the ‘90.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:33 pm

On the other hand, they have lost more than they have gained.

Sigh, I'm afraid you are right, Musigny-151, my brother.

We have lost more than we have gained.... In more ways than one.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:37 pm

Believe it or not, Musigny 151, when you were extolling the 2016 Mouton a while back, I went on the NH Liquor Store site to check the price... $718.49, but when it goes on sale at 15% off next month it will be.... $610.72....

Hmmmm.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:40 pm

...if I'm factoring in the $339 I would otherwise have paid for the lowly 2014 Margaux, that reduces the price down to a mere $271....

this seems like a no-brainer.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:42 pm

Jacques? Jacques? Can you help me with some Wall Street analysis here?
Opportunity cost? Marginal utility? Diminishing returns? Thinking back to my Eco 101.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:43 pm

Time for a poll....

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:44 pm

2014 and 2016 lost more than they gained compared to the '80s?

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:48 pm

JimHow,

It's not expensive for Mouton 2016 if you can buy it for 610 bucks. I payed 630 Euros en primeur.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:48 pm

Oh, man, GBF, that is really killing me, you are telling me it is a decent bargain at 610$.

Jacques? Jacques? Where are you, Jacques?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:59 pm

The 2014 and 2016 lost more than they gained compared to the 80's...

And the 80's lost more than they gained compared to the 60's...

While the 60's lost more than they gained compared to the 40-50's...

But surely, the 40-50's lost more than they gained compared to the 20's...

So the best wine ever made was between 4000 and 8000 BC in the Armenia/Georgia area. Everyone know that!

So Jim, forget about that 2014 Margaux or 2016 Mouton or that case of 2019 Tour Saint Christophe, and find yourself back a 1918 Haut Brion.

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:05 am

That was actually a theme in Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris, Nicola....

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:28 am

Sorry man, I was busy catching up on some TV watching

I don't see any financial rationalization to buy the 2016 Mouton. You want it, buy it, YOLO after all. The thing is, I'm not sure you'd enjoy it as much as a $29 Tour St Christophe. I'll give another 2 cents in the poll

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:10 am

Jim
I think forget the economics and buy whichever deal you feel like.
Can I make a point. Wendy being a typical finance manager, thinks of the price of everything and is always after a bargain.
So if I open ANY wine she tries working out if it is worth it, not worth it, whatever.....

So one rule we have I actually learned from Francois.
Wine needs to be seen as a sunk cost (unless of course you are deliberately buying it as an investment) and thus forget the price when you drink it.
So these days I refuse to disclose the purchase price and have also said that looking it up online is rarely valid unless I bought it yesterday.

One other point however is how crowded your cellar or storage unit is.
When the 2016 vintage wines arrived, I had to rent another storage unit so after that, I thought there is plenty of space for more wine.
So I would have taken the Tour Christophe 2019 if I had some space space to fill, and I would definitely go for the 2014 Margaux if space was at a premium.

As for marginal utility and diminishing returns, I think that for Bordeaux that can be aged for some years, it is not an issue.
You can watch it develop and enjoy something slightly different each time.
So each wine has something relatively unique about it.
As for the Mouton, opportunity cost is too high as you can buy the Margaux and then buy numerous bottles of the Tour Christophe 2019 with the change.
Though I generally prefer Ch Margaux in any case, and the 2014 Margaux wines I have tried so far (admittedly only lesser wines and some seconds) have been very good stylistically.
2014 is a slightly more modern version of 1996 to my palate.

tim · Post by **tim** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:24 am

It is interesting the difference between being a spectator on the sidelines or being faced with the same dilemma.

I was just given a gift to purchase a bottle of wine up to $500 locally. And the first thing that came to mind is that I would totally go for that 2014 Margaux that Jim was contemplating. Screw the 89 Lynch (sorry Jim).

I ended up buying a 2014 Haut Brion for $400. Perhaps I could have found something better (there are some older Margaux bottles at a place nearby) but this looked like an absolute stunner in its cellartracker reviews. Plus I love Haut Brion.

Who says I never buy young wines!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:59 am

Happy Birthday Tim!

It doesn’t seem like two years ago we were celebrating your 50th down in that lovely chateau between Bordeaux central and St-Emilion...