Fake Sassicaia

[RPCV]

More troubles for Italian wine. Time for authenticity stamps and other anti-fraud technology.

https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/fake ... ce-445643/

[JCNorthway]

Glad I don't really shop in that price range . . .

[dstgolf]

Wine fraud is big business and rampant from my understanding. Don't think that it's limited to the superstars of the wine world as there is a huge market for volume sales of bulk wines being bottled and relabelled. $2-3/bottle cost sold at $15-50/bottle can reap huge profits for the fraudsters around the world in all economies of scale. A while back the Mohawks in Quebec were caught with just this supplying the local Quebec Dépanneurs and grocery stores with huge volumes of counterfeits at discounted prices just as they produce counterfeit cigarettes and cigars that are sold privately on and off the reserves. Their casinos have sales stands selling the counterfeits and this goes untouched by the governments on both sides of the border. They are just a tip of the iceberg for a flourishing business.

[AKR]

A while back the Mohawks in Quebec were caught with just this supplying the local Quebec Dépanneurs and grocery stores with huge volumes of counterfeits at discounted prices just as they produce counterfeit cigarettes and cigars that are sold privately on and off the reserves. Their casinos have sales stands selling the counterfeits and this goes untouched by the governments on both sides of the border. They are just a tip of the iceberg for a flourishing business.

[Nicklasss]

Good for the label drinkers...

I'm wondering how many fake bottles we're drinking here at BWE annually?

Nic

[jckba]

Ain't nothing like some sun soaked Sicilian Sassicaia

[marcs]

The Sassicaia situation should be a big red alert to all of us that we are all extremely vulnerable to counterfeits -- it's not limited to people who pay thousands for old DRCs.

I think the ideal wines for counterfeiting are in the "middle" of the high end/luxury wine category -- wines that are produced in high enough volume that it is easy to produce them in bulk without arousing suspicion, but also high enough in price that you can make millions from bulk sales. Also, the current vintage of a wine intended to be aged is a good target -- current vintages don't require any fake "aging" of the bottles, hence make it easier to mass produce, and are not likely to be opened young.

Even more than Super Tuscans, Bordeaux fits that category. First growths and super seconds are absolutely ideal for this kind of counterfeiting. The first growths have higher production than Sassicaia (15-20,000 cases for Lafite and Latour vs 10,000 for Sassicaia) and prices that are twice as high. Super seconds like Palmer, LLC, etc. have similar prices to Sassicaia. There are also many super seconds between $100 and $200 a bottle that would not draw attention.

It would be incredibly easy to insert counterfeit wines like this into the retail chain. As we all know, there are lots of auction houses and retailers who take wines basically no questions asked, just based on a glance at external condition. It would actually be pretty surprising to me if there isn't a factory somewhere in Asia turning out passable forgeries of first growths right now that are in the sales chain somewhere. We all know that there are plenty of non-passable forgeries of high-end wines being produced in Asia that are very visible, do we really think that people are too stupid to turn out passable ones?

If everyone worked together it seems like the industry could get this under control, for example by numbering bottles and having a global database registering and tracking the bottles (so you would know if there are excess or multiple bottles circulating, etc.). But as long as we all keep spending our money and taking our chances, there are no incentives to make that effort.

[Claret]

What about induced TCA in fakes? I heard about this somewhere not related to Sassicaia. That makes for a flawed bottle without any discussion on authenticity.

[marcs]

What about induced TCA in fakes? I heard about this somewhere not related to Sassicaia. That makes for a flawed bottle without any discussion on authenticity.

Holy shit, that is fiendishly brilliant.

But it's hardly necessary, there are so many excuses for a bottle showing "off". If you had a way to get a ton of tannin in there that would work as well.

For a new bottle it should be fairly straightforward to produce a bottle that is externally "perfect", as they did with the Sassicaia. A perfect label, bottle, cork, and fill, no one will question it as long as the taste is anywhere in the vaguely possible ballpark.

[Claudius2]

Guys
One idea here is to check out the supply chain if you are not sure of the wine.
Though if you are not sure if the wine is genuine then give it a big miss.
I’ve written several times that most luxury goods (like 90%) for sale in China Korea and SE Asia are fake.
A few local dealers have told me that the ratio is similar for wine to the point where an “importer” once offered one a deal on French wine that was in fact greater than the total production of the estate.

I was not aware of Sassicaia being faked but was also not surprised. In China and much of Asia if you can buy fake eggs, rice or milk I suppose everything is fake. When traveling in China I have just drunk the local wine as it’s less likely to be fake. All rather sad really.

Also note that according to Treasury wines even their entry level wines get faked in Asia. You may also note that Treasury is subject to a Chinese investigation for dumping and I better not discuss why.

[marcs]

Scary shit man. I bought a case of Burgundy cheap from Hong Kong a while ago, thinking that it was obscure enough (a 2011 Felettig premier cru) that I was protected, but who knows. And now that I don't buy new vintages and only backfill, some of the Bordeaux I go for (Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton) is prestigious enough to be a counterfeiting target. Having on occasion sold a few of my bottles to retailers and auction houses, I know well that even the prestigious ones do ZERO checking on chain of ownership. In fairness to them, it's probably not really possible to do such checking once a wine has been "in circulation" for a few years.

[JimHow]

Yeah, this is why I always look with skepticism when somebody says they bought bottles in "pristine" condition at auction, or anywhere else for that matter.
How does anyone know whether the bottles are pristine?
They could have been subjected to two hours of heat somewhere along the way in the past 20 years and be ruined.

[DavidG]

In the same boat here. Now that I'm backfilling rather than buying direct from a winery or on release through normal retail channels, I'm subject to risks of both poor storage along the way and counterfeiting.

Storage risks can be reduced somewhat by looking at fills and dealing with outfits with good track records, but there's no guarantee. Like Jim said, storage for a few years at 80 degrees may not show visible signs of damage even though the wine is cooked. I've been lucky so far with Zachy's and HDH auctions, retail purchases from Benchmark, and library purchases direct from wineries. I'll emphasize luck on the auction and retail purchases because there is no way for them to know how a wine has been stored short of visible damage.

Counterfeits can enter both the auction and retail chains. Marcus' comments about the most likely to be faked make sense, which would put the things I'm interested in right in the crosshairs. But really any level or price point might be targeted. For 30+ year old bottles, "pristine" appearance and fill into the necks might actually be warning signs. OTOH, bottles that I've stored myself for 30+ years since release look awfully good and most still have fills into the neck. Some auction houses apparently have better reputations (Sotheby's, HDH if i recall?) for careful vetting. But anyone can be fooled and I wonder how much time, if any, they invest in examining bottles other than a cursory look unless they are in the >$1,000 range.

[Nicklasss]

I guess this is the only advantage of our alcohol monopoly here. The SAQ (I'm sure) buy only to producers/fair legal trader/fair legal négociants. We pay a higher price for that, but are sure of provenance.

Considering "pristine bottles", i buy only "pristine bottles" at the SAQ. Even if they don't move from my storage area, i can see some little defaults after 15 years... so when a "pristine " 1982 is offered on the market, go figure what it is.

Nic

[s*d*r]

For 30+ year old bottles, "pristine" appearance and fill into the necks might actually be warning signs. OTOH, bottles that I've stored myself for 30+ years since release look awfully good and most still have fills into the neck.

Even if they don't move from my storage area, i can see some little defaults after 15 years... so when a "pristine " 1982 is offered on the market, go figure what it is.Nic

The bottles of ‘82 Bordeaux I still have left from those I purchased on release have fills into the low neck, but no lower. And for the first year I had to store them at room temperature, after that at 55 degrees.

I have purchased other bottles of ‘82s from auction or from retail that were up to mid, or rarely, high, neck that could be considered “suspicious.” But practically all of them were sound and usually even more youthful than my bottles of the same thing. I suspect they were stored even cooler than mine.

While we all need to be careful and suspicious, do not assume that all great looking old bottles are fake.

Stu

[Antoine]

I simply don't buy second hand...

[jckba]

I simply don't buy second hand...

This and what Jim said, I def try to do the same and much prefer the idea of buying on release and storing myself as I can ensure that it is stored properly and don’t have to worry about where it has been.

[marcs]

Almost all my purchases these days are "second hand". I just have no interest in waiting 15-20 years for a current release to enter the zone. I stopped buying new with 2016.

You can get burned on a new purchase too. The people who bought this Sassicaia thought they were buying a brand new release.

[jckba]

To be clear, the current vintage of Sassicaia in the market is the 2017 and not the sold through 2015 or 2016, which is not to say that you can’t find a btl of a prior vintage on the shelf somewhere at retail but I digress.

And I also fully agree with you regarding the frustrations of having a cellar full of slowly maturing Bdx.

[Claudius2]

Marcs
That producer may be a worry as I’ve seen a lot of Feletigg Burgundy at local auctions and I’ve never bid on them as they were not sourced from Europe. That does not prove anything but as a general rule never buy anything from HK China or just about anywhere in Asia - from handbags to wine.
One reason there is so much fake wine in Asia is that most drinkers have no idea what the real stuff tastes like. For example I was given a famous wine by Wendy’s brother in law a few yrs back which was 100% fake.
I am not saying your wine is fake but seriously when it is offered cheap your suspicions should make you wary.
Cheers
Mark

[marcs]

Marcs
That producer may be a worry as I’ve seen a lot of Feletigg Burgundy at local auctions and I’ve never bid on them as they were not sourced from Europe. That does not prove anything but as a general rule never buy anything from HK China or just about anywhere in Asia - from handbags to wine.
One reason there is so much fake wine in Asia is that most drinkers have no idea what the real stuff tastes like. For example I was given a famous wine by Wendy’s brother in law a few yrs back which was 100% fake.
I am not saying your wine is fake but seriously when it is offered cheap your suspicions should make you wary.
Cheers
Mark

yeah it was probably a mistake. I bought two cases of Burgundy at very low prices from a HK auction, have not yet tasted them, but never again. Cutting down on auction purchases in general, was in a building phase of a my cellar but now bringing it to a close.

[Claudius2]

Marcs
I know this doesn’t help much but even beer and mineral water are fake in Asia. I’m a shareholder in Thai Beverage and they sell beer all over the place here. They have routinely argued that much of their beer is faked and passed off as Chang or other brands. They also sell mineral water and various soft drinks which are also faked. No I’m not exaggerating. I wish I was.
Asia simply does not have a culture of honoring brands, IP or other company assets and intangibles. Singapore is way better than most but there is literally nothing here that isn’t fake.
Unfortunately there are too many unscrupulous people in the world but it is the norm not an exception here.
I was once told by a maker of good quality fakes that the makers of bad quality fakes have hurt them. Yeah I’m really sympathetic.....
So assume everything is fake without clear evidence otherwise.
Sorry to sound negative but it’s just a reality here.