Do we know yet what 2019 Bordeaux is really like?

[Blanquito]

Prices for 2019 are still (semi)-tempting, assuming the tariffs vanish in a big orange poof on Jan. 20. Presumably the risk of bankruptcy has faded as well with vaccines on the horizon.

But to Alex’s point made in the spring, have enough of “us” tried the ‘19s to know what we might be or have purchased? Are these as good as some critics maintain or is it just rampant grade inflation? Bottomline: Is this a special vintage worth chasing?

I ask because, despite my better judgement, recent posts have made me look again at the 2019s en futuro. And if this is a legit great vintage, there are many tempting, well-priced wines on offer — eg Branaire, Langoa Barton, Gloria, Cantemerle, plus many more exulted chateau.

[Nicklasss]

For Bordeaux vintage assessment, I like the Revue des Vins de France. French people being "de grandes gueules" aren't shy to say the realthings without ban. At the same time, french language being what it is, it all can be done with "élégance" without being shocking.

Let say if 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2016 are considered 5 stars (ok even if they have different style), 2019 seems to be a mix of 2017 with 2018 : a sligthly riper 2017 with sligthly less rain, so a 3.5 to 4 stars. Also, while important rains happened early September in 2017, 2019 had medium rain more at the third week of September. Description include ripe wines with good amount of tannins, that keep good crisp character. A more controlled and improved 2006? Other comments i can see, some merlot on the Right Bank are a bit heavy.

Hope that helps.

Nic

[JimHow]

A more controlled and improved 2006? Other comments i can see, some merlot on the Right Bank are a bit heavy.

Sounds boring as a 93 Batailley.

[Blanquito]

Nick, this does help, a lot! My interest in 2019 futures has vanished as fast as the tannins in a RollandIzed cellar!

[DavidG]

Haven’t tasted a single one, but a comment on the tariffs: they go back to a dispute over EU Airbus subsidies that began a few administrations ago, and are not a part of Trump's trade war. I don’t think they will disappear under a new administration. Best we can hope for as Bordeaux wine enthusiasts is that when the US trade representative is replaced the tariffs will be rotated to other goods.

[Comte Flaneur]

I think it will end up being recognised as the second best vintage in the last decade after 2016. Way better than 2006. When I tried the D’Issan 2019 I was enchanted.

Patrick and Nic - and Joel? - you are still in your 40s so once the tariffs come off you should fill your boots.

I ended up buying a lot more than I intended but many of the estates offered at attractive prices. After I tried D’Issan, and I was immediately hooked, I knew I was in trouble.

I ended up getting in date order:

Pontet Canet, 12 x 375

Lynch Bages, 375s and 750s; 3.5 cases in total

Conseillante, 12 x 375

Figeac, 12 x 375

D’Issan, 12 x 375

Leoville-Barton, 12 x 375

Clinet, 6 x 750

Haut-Bailly, 3 x 750

Smith Haut-Lafite (rouge), 6 x 750

and Pichon Lalande, 3 x 750

MEK got Palmer, LLC, Montrose, in addition to Issan, SHL and Pontet Canet.

[Comte Flaneur]

I also went long a lot of Lynch Bages 2019

Lynch Bages pricing versus ratings in the UK:

490467B1-0C45-417E-BC5E-75206F054377.jpeg (31.65 KiB) Viewed 1990 times

[JoelD]

I think it will end up being recognised as the second best vintage in the last decade after 2016. Way better than 2006. When I tried the D’Issan 2019 I was enchanted.

Patrick and Nic - and Joel? - you are still in your 40s so once the tariffs come off you should fill your boots.

Thanks for the tip Ian. I'm 33, so I assume you would say I should double down on that?

Currently I am still filling in my 2016's. I tend to be a little more patient on current releases, and have mostly preferred buying back vintages in general. With the tariffs likely staying in place for a while (Thanks for the Info DavidG), the real question is should I try to load up on more 2016's that some prices have not been impacted by the tariffs. Or move on to 2019. Decisions, decisions.

Sounds like Lynch Bages, D'issan and what would be your third top recommendation for 2019 Ian?

Also I noticed you purchased a lot of 375's, any particular reasoning by that? I tend to stray from 375's and 1.5L purely because of storage purposes.

[Comte Flaneur]

Joel I bought half bottles mainly because of my age (57), and this will definitely be the last vintage I buy en primeur, but also because halves are pretty rare and may command a premium in case I need to sell.

In the UK the 2019s were unexpectedly attractively priced, and a lot of credit for that goes to our old friend Alfred Tesseron who got the ball rolling with Pontet Canet. According to some critics it is a 98-100 pt wine so that would be my third recommendation.

You may however want to wait until the tariffs come off and keep backfilling with 2016s.

This is what I wrote somewhere else. There will be a lot of people here who disagree with this:

The decade 2010-19 is by far the best ever in Bordeaux in my opinion mainly because of a more enlightened approach by accepting that the wine is made in the vineyard as opposed to in the cellar, and therefore not fighting the hand that nature deals you. As Parker’s influence has waned to zero the key philosophical change has been to move away from high extraction, which peaked in the mid-noughties - away from squeeze the wet towel to the dangle the teabag approach. But the notion that whole vintages were ‘parkerised’ is not really true. Particularly in the previous decade some producers chose to ‘parkerise’ their wines but most of the offenders have now dialled back from that.

Before 2019 came along the best two vintages were 2010 and 2016. The 2010s are big in every way including in alcohol which is something we need to accept. Many of these wines are muscular thoroughbreds with no flab at all, but it is definitely better on the left bank, and probably the greatest left bank vintage of all time. The 2016s are probably the greatest all round vintage of all time, less powerful than 2010 but complete in every way. I suspect 2019 will join these two at the top of the podium with the more philosophically enlightened approach described above.

Below these would come 2015 and 2018 both warm vintages but I have tried few of the latter. Next would come 2014 and 2017 broadly on a par and excellent cooler vintages with many delightful wines. The 2014s provide the best bargains for buying now and the 2017s were sadly over priced, so there is probably plenty floating around. Below them comes 2012 which is a very good cooler vintage on a par with 2008, but it has closed down more than I hoped and expected, and is better on the right bank.

Just behind is 2011 which really is a Cinderella vintage but a respectable and honest one. It just suffered from coming after 2010. The only write off is 2013 - avoid. The wines are only made palatable but adding bags of sugar according to a Spanish winemaker I was sitting next to at a Mouton vertical a few years ago. I am not sure if that is true or even legal, but the Mouton did taste artificially souped up. In summary this last decade is the best ever after a good decade in the noughties in which 2009 is by far the best vintage. We are in a golden era for Bordeaux. The biggest threat in the coming decade, however, is climate change.

[Blanquito]

Great stuff, Ian. What other 2019s have you tried other than the d’Issan?

The ones catching my eye are Branaire Ducru, Langoa Barton, Gloria, St Pierre, Brane Cantenac — all estates whose style I still like and which are attractively priced.

[Comte Flaneur]

Patrick no others apart from D’Issan. Because of Covid we could not do the usual tasting rounds. So the other purchases were on blind faith, putting my trust in palates that I rate.

When Alfred T released at a very attractive price the dam wall crumbled.

For my D’Issan review I am in good company.

https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=3655127

The main issue which might deter you is alcohol. Not because the wines were manipulated as such or because the harvest was deliberately picked late but because of the heat of the summer.

So for the vintage the alcohol averages 14% with a range of 13.4% (D’Issan) to 14.6%, the highest I saw from the RB. I came very close to pulling the trigger on Lafite and Mouton because they were both around 13 1/2%.

There was a conspiracy theory here in the UK that the wines were pushed above 14% to get around US tariffs, but why didn’t every estate go over 14% then?

[Chateau Vin]

My 2 cents...

1. I personally think tariffs are a bit of moot point now. Tariffs apply for wine less than 14% alcohol. Barring very few chateaux such DdC, most of the chateaux have alcohol over 14%. Also, some retailers in the US allow you to back out and get refund for reasons including tariffs.

2. 2019s are much cheaper than 2018s and 2016s, and for FWIW, according to JL and gbf, some chateaux possibly made their best ever (likes of gloria, DdC, et al).

I took my chances and made modest purchases so far. One case of mixed regulars (CS, Pedesclaux, DdC, Gloria, Clinet) and one case of mixed splits (DdC, Branaire, Clinet, Gazin). Probably I will add one more case to my 2019s.

[Blanquito]

I see that I can get the 2019 Lynch for $85 including sales tax (but not including a 25% tariff). Buy???

[Blanquito]

I can get a 6-pack of the 2019 Montrose for $116 each (pre-tariff), also tempting.

For those who’ve tasted recent vintages (my most recent was the 2008), what’s the style at Montrose these days? The critics are ga-ga over what they’ve be doing there since at least 2005.

[Comte Flaneur]

I am not sure how that tariff works but $85 is a good price but $85 + 25% is much less so.

Montrose has invested huge sums into its estate. The 2016 is an epic wine. Better than anything ever produced there. It trounces 2010, 2009, 2005 and 2000 in a vertical.

I think the price here was £600/6 so at current exchange rates of $1.33 that looks a good buy without the tariff.

[marcs]

At 53 I stopped buying new Bordeaux with the 2016 vintage and have so far managed to stick to that.

The decade 2010-19 is by far the best ever in Bordeaux in my opinion mainly because of a more enlightened approach by accepting that the wine is made in the vineyard as opposed to in the cellar, and therefore not fighting the hand that nature deals you. As Parker’s influence has waned to zero the key philosophical change has been to move away from high extraction, which peaked in the mid-noughties - away from squeeze the wet towel to the dangle the teabag approach. But the notion that whole vintages were ‘parkerised’ is not really true. Particularly in the previous decade some producers chose to ‘parkerise’ their wines but most of the offenders have now dialled back from that.

Before 2019 came along the best two vintages were 2010 and 2016. The 2010s are big in every way including in alcohol which is something we need to accept. Many of these wines are muscular thoroughbreds with no flab at all, but it is definitely better on the left bank, and probably the greatest left bank vintage of all time. The 2016s are probably the greatest all round vintage of all time, less powerful than 2010 but complete in every way. I suspect 2019 will join these two at the top of the podium with the more philosophically enlightened approach described above.

I think the jury is still very much out on these claims. I have not been as impressed as Ian by the 2010s -- they are huge wines with formidable tannins that have not really been that pleasant to drink the times I have had them. I think on vintages like that you need to reserve some judgement until they actually come around. Also, similar to 2005, there were major issues with over-extraction on the right bank in 2010 -- I don't see the argument for saying that problem was there in 2005 but not 2010.

As for what is the best decade, the stylistic changes decade to decade have become so significant I think it is harder to make blanket claims. I don't think anyone will claim the 1990s as the best. But the 80s have numerous excellent vintages in a more understated style that will never return -- can one say definitively that the teens are better? I thought the 2000s were actually excellent in many ways, with some excellent "off vintages" in a variety of styles and two superb vintages that were terrific across the board in the 2000 and 2009. (I think the jury is still out on 2005s for similar reasons to 2010).

With that said, I haven't drunk as widely as Ian, especially in more recent vintages, so I could be wrong just based on lack of experience.

[JoelD]

Joel I bought half bottles mainly because of my age (57), and this will definitely be the last vintage I buy en primeur, but also because halves are pretty rare and may command a premium in case I need to sell.

In the UK the 2019s were unexpectedly attractively priced, and a lot of credit for that goes to our old friend Alfred Tesseron who got the ball rolling with Pontet Canet. According to some critics it is a 98-100 pt wine so that would be my third recommendation.

You may however want to wait until the tariffs come off and keep backfilling with 2016s.

Thanks for all the valuable info Ian, I remember reading this before and I am starting to believe that you are dead on in your vintage rankings.

I am also backfilling 2010's. Although as you noted, a lot of these are high in alcohol. Do you happen to have any best recommendations for 2010's. Value vs Price, and hopefully on the lower side of Alc % for the vintage?

Also, what is everyone's best resource for finding info on blends/alc % on different wines? It would be nice if they were all just laid out somewhere. Other than just having to google each individual wine/vintage.

[JoelD]

1. I personally think tariffs are a bit of moot point now. Tariffs apply for wine less than 14% alcohol. Barring very few chateaux such DdC, most of the chateaux have alcohol over 14%. Also, some retailers in the US allow you to back out and get refund for reasons including tariffs.

I have been looking for retailers that are allowing this for the 2019 futures. Any recommendations? Will they put it in writing?

[Blanquito]

I have recently seen a few single malts being sold with a drop or two of another malt added, rendering them officially ‘blends’ which are not subject to the tariffs.

E.g.: “2007 Below Bhainidh (Mortlach) K&L Exclusive Single Hogshead Blended Malt Scotch Whisky (Pre-Arrival) Another stunning deal from the excellent Hepburn's Choice line. We made a concious decision to bottle all our single cask malts from this line as blended malt, adding a tiny drop of another distillery to the cask, thereby reclassifying it and saving everyone tons of cheese! More proof of that plan coming together exists in this awesome bottle...”

[Chateau Vin]

1. I personally think tariffs are a bit of moot point now. Tariffs apply for wine less than 14% alcohol. Barring very few chateaux such DdC, most of the chateaux have alcohol over 14%. Also, some retailers in the US allow you to back out and get refund for reasons including tariffs.

I have been looking for retailers that are allowing this for the 2019 futures. Any recommendations? Will they put it in writing?

Total Wine Concierge is one of the cheapest EP offers and you need 50% down and remaining 50% when the wine arrives (Only 50% payment upfront with very competitive prices seems a great deal when you factor in the PC debacle few years ago ). That's why I ordered from them. I have also had good experience with them couple of times I have ordered EP from them so far. Usually, Total Wine EP sells out faster, so if you make up your mind, better hurry...

https://concierge.totalwine.com/bordeaux-futures

[AKR]

Joel I bought half bottles mainly because of my age (57), and this will definitely be the last vintage I buy en primeur, but also because halves are pretty rare and may command a premium in case I need to sell.

In the UK the 2019s were unexpectedly attractively priced, and a lot of credit for that goes to our old friend Alfred Tesseron who got the ball rolling with Pontet Canet. According to some critics it is a 98-100 pt wine so that would be my third recommendation.

You may however want to wait until the tariffs come off and keep backfilling with 2016s.

This is what I wrote somewhere else. There will be a lot of people here who disagree with this:

The decade 2010-19 is by far the best ever in Bordeaux in my opinion mainly because of a more enlightened approach by accepting that the wine is made in the vineyard as opposed to in the cellar, and therefore not fighting the hand that nature deals you. As Parker’s influence has waned to zero the key philosophical change has been to move away from high extraction, which peaked in the mid-noughties - away from squeeze the wet towel to the dangle the teabag approach. But the notion that whole vintages were ‘parkerised’ is not really true. Particularly in the previous decade some producers chose to ‘parkerise’ their wines but most of the offenders have now dialled back from that.

Before 2019 came along the best two vintages were 2010 and 2016. The 2010s are big in every way including in alcohol which is something we need to accept. Many of these wines are muscular thoroughbreds with no flab at all, but it is definitely better on the left bank, and probably the greatest left bank vintage of all time. The 2016s are probably the greatest all round vintage of all time, less powerful than 2010 but complete in every way. I suspect 2019 will join these two at the top of the podium with the more philosophically enlightened approach described above.

Below these would come 2015 and 2018 both warm vintages but I have tried few of the latter. Next would come 2014 and 2017 broadly on a par and excellent cooler vintages with many delightful wines. The 2014s provide the best bargains for buying now and the 2017s were sadly over priced, so there is probably plenty floating around. Below them comes 2012 which is a very good cooler vintage on a par with 2008, but it has closed down more than I hoped and expected, and is better on the right bank.

Just behind is 2011 which really is a Cinderella vintage but a respectable and honest one. It just suffered from coming after 2010. The only write off is 2013 - avoid. The wines are only made palatable but adding bags of sugar according to a Spanish winemaker I was sitting next to at a Mouton vertical a few years ago. I am not sure if that is true or even legal, but the Mouton did taste artificially souped up. In summary this last decade is the best ever after a good decade in the noughties in which 2009 is by far the best vintage. We are in a golden era for Bordeaux. The biggest threat in the coming decade, however, is climate change.

very thoughtful post Comte. both yours and marcs post's have been very insightful on markets in BDX. like George Brett circa 1980, you're in sync with the times, and the baseball looks like a softball floating toward homeplate.

[Comte Flaneur]

Arv thank you. I know that is not a popular opinion on here but the contrary opinion implicitly assumes no technological change...since the long lost golden era of the 1980s...like Ray Davies and his longing for the village green in the late 1960s. Now you could argue that technology was abused to be craven to Parker, in the day, which was undoubtedly true, but more still the exception rather than the rule. But what I think folks here appreciate less is the tectonic shift from the ‘wringed towel’ to ‘dangled teabag’ philosophy which happened quite quickly as others are hurtling down the cul-de-sac of higher alcohol which is purely a function of global warming and exhuming the green stuff from the mix. That is why 2019 is the most exciting vintage ever after 2016, which reaped the benefit of a relatively cooler growing season.

[greatbxfreak]

https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vintages/2019

Niclasss,

2017 is no comparison to 2019. The latter is much, much better.

Ian/Comte Flaneur,

To me, 2012 and 2008 have nothing in common. 2012 is lush, fruity and sensual while 2008 is classic cool climate tannic Bx vintage. 2012 has better ripeness imho.

I'm going to taste around 250 2018s, big names and lesser names included during the next 1.5 month.

[Musigny 151]

At 53 I stopped buying new Bordeaux with the 2016 vintage and have so far managed to stick to that.

The decade 2010-19 is by far the best ever in Bordeaux in my opinion mainly because of a more enlightened approach by accepting that the wine is made in the vineyard as opposed to in the cellar, and therefore not fighting the hand that nature deals you. As Parker’s influence has waned to zero the key philosophical change has been to move away from high extraction, which peaked in the mid-noughties - away from squeeze the wet towel to the dangle the teabag approach. But the notion that whole vintages were ‘parkerised’ is not really true. Particularly in the previous decade some producers chose to ‘parkerise’ their wines but most of the offenders have now dialled back from that.

Before 2019 came along the best two vintages were 2010 and 2016. The 2010s are big in every way including in alcohol which is something we need to accept. Many of these wines are muscular thoroughbreds with no flab at all, but it is definitely better on the left bank, and probably the greatest left bank vintage of all time. The 2016s are probably the greatest all round vintage of all time, less powerful than 2010 but complete in every way. I suspect 2019 will join these two at the top of the podium with the more philosophically enlightened approach described above.

I think the jury is still very much out on these claims. I have not been as impressed as Ian by the 2010s -- they are huge wines with formidable tannins that have not really been that pleasant to drink the times I have had them. I think on vintages like that you need to reserve some judgement until they actually come around. Also, similar to 2005, there were major issues with over-extraction on the right bank in 2010 -- I don't see the argument for saying that problem was there in 2005 but not 2010.

As for what is the best decade, the stylistic changes decade to decade have become so significant I think it is harder to make blanket claims. I don't think anyone will claim the 1990s as the best. But the 80s have numerous excellent vintages in a more understated style that will never return -- can one say definitively that the teens are better? I thought the 2000s were actually excellent in many ways, with some excellent "off vintages" in a variety of styles and two superb vintages that were terrific across the board in the 2000 and 2009. (I think the jury is still out on 2005s for similar reasons to 2010).

With that said, I haven't drunk as widely as Ian, especially in more recent vintages, so I could be wrong just based on lack of experience.

A lot to digest in this pair of posts. If you look at the scores from the better known critics, you would agree with Ian as to the quality of the last decade. Yet, these are the wines that are as much the product of global warming as anything else, and the paradigm for the modern critic are these wines of high alcohol and ripeness. When vintages such as 2014 and 2016 come up, it shows that Bordeaux is still capable of producing traditional wines. And when you have vintages such as 2010 and 2015, you please another crowd; such is one of the strengths of Bordeaux, that it is capable of catering to both sets. Yet I fear that as global warming worsens, there will be more vintages like ‘10 and ‘15. But quite honestly, that would be the least of our problems.

[Musigny 151]

https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vintages/2019



To me, 2012 and 2008 have nothing in common. 2012 is lush, fruity and sensual while 2008 is classic cool climate tannic Bx vintage. 2012 has better ripeness imho.

I'm going to taste around 250 2018s, big names and lesser names included during the next 1.5 month.

Having tasted both 2008 and 2012 extensively, they are indeed very different. 2008 is marginally ripe, and a few not even that. But most of them are very good wines, and far more to my taste than 2012, a vintage that we Brits refer to as “luncheon clarets”. I have a few cases of 2008, and they are just beginning to show well. Very much of a sleeper vintage.

[Nicklasss]

First, I thank Comte Flaneur for his post on the classification, and blanquito for that post on 2019 Bordeaux. These posts brought some life to BWE for that grey, in confinement, End of November 2020.

Other thing, i guess Jim account have been hacked : no love for Lynch Bages lately, and mister BWE that likes all Bordeaux now blast an "improved 2006 vintage" like i blasted the 93 Batailley years ago... but than he liked the 2018 Kwok's Haut Brisson... some hope!

And greatbxfreak that thinks i wrote 2019 is comparable to 2017... i guess i'll take some new english language lessons. That should help me to be more nuanced for gbf to understand what I mean or to discuss with Comte Flaneur and agree that 2019 is probably "our" second best vintage of the last 10 years after 2016, but not for the reasons he or gbf pointed out.

I did not tasted 2019, and my understanding of 2019 is clearly a perception, but things that are i guess, of some interest:

- i learned (and many wine critics and winemakers told that too I guess) that a great vintage for red Bordeaux must have no or limited rainfalls during harvest.

- i like to compare fact and data, especially if I did not tasted the wine. I know it has it's limit, but if ypu look the conditions of vintage 2016-2017-2018-2019 here https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles ... est-report you'll notice that in 2016 there was big rain the first day of September and dry after, kind of very good rain first two weeks and last week of September for 2017, and for 2019 4 to 12 mm of rain everyday of the third week of September being during harvest.

- when we went to Bordeaux in 2015, we had a great visit at La Mission Haut Brion. They gave us very interesting book with all information about Haut Brion and La Mission Haut Brion. The one from Haut Brion is quite complete having all meteorological conditions for vintage 1950 to 2010. And guess what? In the last 20 vintages, the one that is kind of similar (not perfectly as every vintage is unique) is drumroll..... 2006! 2001 too seems in the same league.

- Bordelais are not dumber than anybody else. They understand the covid pandemic, the no en primeur tasting, and all that. They understand the economic situation and who are buying the Crus Classés. They understand that in the greatest vintages, with today's reality, they don't lower the price, they will send their best vintages at high price even if covid kill 1 % of the population. So the real main reason to lower the price for the 2019 vintage is.... i let you guess... a 4 stars vintage. In every 4 stars vintages, some producers do better things than other and produce their best wines, it is not new.

Last, BWEers like the best wines of 4 stars vintages, as the modern 4 stars vintages are more "classic" than the modern 5 stars vintages. So yes, 2019 is probably a BWE type of vintage, that will be "our" second favorite in the last 10 years. So yes i bought more 2019 than 2015 or 2018, and i recommend you all to do so.

Nic

[JimHow]

Ha ha Nicola, you really need to try that 2018 Haut Brisson, it is a 90% merlot stunner! I predict it is a Jean-Nicolas Maltais kind of wine.
It really has me intrigued about the 2018 vintage. I don't know about the pricing for the vintage, but the $24.99 price I got from Saratoga was a great deal.

[Nicklasss]

Am I talking to the "real" JimHow? I'll look for it Jim. If I find the 2018 Haut Brisson, i'll try it. If it never makes it way to our monopoly wine store, you'll keep me a bottle that I'll buy to you, when I'll be able I'll go to Maine.

[JimHow]

I think the light is at the end of the tunnel on this thing, we'll be drinking some fine northern Medocs again soon.

[DavidG]

Back to tariffs for a moment and the practicalities of purchases.

While I agree with CV that tariffs are unlikely to be an issue for many wines because they’ll come in at over 14% ABV, it’s not universal (Haut Bailly is 13.5%). And it’s not always easy to find the data before purchasing. I look at the various TNs from critics and can find the information about half the time. I’m still looking for alcohol levels on the following if anyone has them:
Carmes Haut Brion
Lynch Bages
Montrose
Palmer
Pontet Canet
Talbot


Another plus for Total Wine's program is that you can cancel the order without penalty if tariffs are still in effect when the wine comes in.

MacArthur says they’ll split tariffs 50-50.

[greatbxfreak]

Niclasss,

Here are your comments:

"Let say if 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2016 are considered 5 stars (ok even if they have different style), 2019 seems to be a mix of 2017 with 2018 : a sligthly riper 2017 with sligthly less rain, so a 3.5 to 4 stars. Also, while important rains happened early September in 2017, 2019 had medium rain more at the third week of September. Description include ripe wines with good amount of tannins, that keep good crisp character. A more controlled and improved 2006? Other comments i can see, some merlot on the Right Bank are a bit heavy." Where did you get these descriptions from?

I actually tasted 325 samples of 2019. No, there are no similarities in 2019 to 2017. 2019 is a cross between 2018 and 2016 imho.

Musigny151,

Tend to agree with you concerning 2008. 2012 is definitely a luncheon vintage which will be ready before the big vintages. Wines are very seductive, fruity, silky and deliciously tasty. A bit light in construction but who really cares. I love this vintage and it's cheap to purchase.

[JoelD]

Another plus for Total Wine's program is that you can cancel the order without penalty if tariffs are still in effect when the wine comes in.

MacArthur says they’ll split tariffs 50-50.

On your first part about Alcohol percentage and blends across a vintage, I asked a similar question earlier in this thread. Is there no good consolidated source for this? Other than just googling? If not, then maybe this should be BWE's next task after the ratings system.

As far as total wine, I am considering order some D'issan and Lynch Bages from them. However where have you heard that you can cancel without penalty? Is this in writing somewhere?

And if you cancel, will you just get back total wine store credit? Which isn't great as I never shop there anymore due to their terrible price increases.

[Blanquito]

Joel, K&L allows you to cancel with a full refund if the tariffs are still in effect when the wine arrives. K&L rarely has the lowest prices, but they are rock solid. You can also buy futures as single bottles from them if you like, no need to buy in volume. Also, K&L ships everywhere still buy they have to use third party shippers for a number of states, which decreases the convenience and slightly increase the cost (K&L is still like $30-$35 a case to ship third party to Colorado, whereas most third party options from other retailers are more like $55-$60 to Colorado these days).

[marcs]

Arv thank you. I know that is not a popular opinion on here but the contrary opinion implicitly assumes no technological change...since the long lost golden era of the 1980s...like Ray Davies and his longing for the village green in the late 1960s. Now you could argue that technology was abused to be craven to Parker, in the day, which was undoubtedly true, but more still the exception rather than the rule. But what I think folks here appreciate less is the tectonic shift from the ‘wringed towel’ to ‘dangled teabag’ philosophy which happened quite quickly as others are hurtling down the cul-de-sac of higher alcohol which is purely a function of global warming and exhuming the green stuff from the mix. That is why 2019 is the most exciting vintage ever after 2016, which reaped the benefit of a relatively cooler growing season.

Let's remember that claims about "the tectonic shift from a ‘wringed towel’ to ‘dangled teabag’ philosophy" are literally just a Bordeaux marketing line designed to sell more wine. As in, this is a snappy one-liner used for advertising purposes. Obviously they have eased off on extraction since the high point of the 2005-2010 period, that is plain enough, and I'm glad about that, but changing extraction practices is not like discovering fire and it's not like nobody thought about extraction before 2015 or whatever. It is my guess that they have done a lot of other things too that are harder for people to understand, tannins seem a lot more finessed for earlier drinking and fruit seems "smoother". In some cases, especially on the left bank, they have somewhat reduced alcohol as well and I'm not totally sure what that is coming from, it's not from picking earlier.

I'm not saying these things are bad, some are good, maybe they will turn out to be very good, but when it comes to aesthetic experiences I think we should avoid seeing things in terms of a linear path of "technological progress" that always leads to better things as opposed to just different things. Take food, which is another experience of "taste". Food technology has increased MASSIVELY in sophistication and capacity and availability since 1900. But how confident are you that the meal you would get in a good restaurant today would be clearly "better" than a meal you could have gotten in a restaurant in 1900? I do not mean to unduly romanticize the "village green". There are clear advances like the near-disappearance of underfruited, dirty, and sour wines even on the low end of the market pricing scale, but I just don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be.

[marcs]

Here is an interesting and relevant passage from the great French anthropologist Claude Levi-Strauss, writing in I think the 1970s:

"In Martinique, I had visited rustic and neglected rum-distilleries where the equipment and the methods used had not changed since the 18th century. In Puerto Rico, on the other hand, in the factories of the company which enjoys a virtual monopoly over the whole of the sugar production, I was faced with a display of white enamel tanks and chromium piping. Yet the various kinds of Martinique rum, as I tasted them in front of ancient wooden vats thickly encrusted with waste matter, were mellow and scented, whereas those of Puerto Rico are coarse and harsh. We may suppose, then, that the subtlety of the Martinique rums is dependent on impurities the continuance of which is encouraged by the archaic method of production. To me, this contrast illustrates the paradox of civilization: its charms are due to the various residues it carries along with it...We are right to be rational and try to increase our production and so keep manufacturing costs down. But we are also right to cherish those very imperfections we are endeavoring to eliminate."

No doubt Ian will say that Levi-Strauss is just the Ray Davies of the snobbish academic set

[DavidG]

Another plus for Total Wine's program is that you can cancel the order without penalty if tariffs are still in effect when the wine comes in.

MacArthur says they’ll split tariffs 50-50.

On your first part about Alcohol percentage and blends across a vintage, I asked a similar question earlier in this thread. Is there no good consolidated source for this? Other than just googling? If not, then maybe this should be BWE's next task after the ratings system.

As far as total wine, I am considering order some D'issan and Lynch Bages from them. However where have you heard that you can cancel without penalty? Is this in writing somewhere?

And if you cancel, will you just get back total wine store credit? Which isn't great as I never shop there anymore due to their terrible price increases.

Joel, here's the bit about being able to cancel without penalty if the price changes (at https://concierge.totalwine.com/bordeaux-futures):

*The price reflected on your order form is subject to change after the order is placed if tariffs or taxes are imposed, or in the case of currency fluctuations of 10% or greater at the time of importation into the U.S. If any changes impact your order, you will be notified and given the option of a full refund for goods not received.

[Blanquito]

No day is complete without a classic quote from Claude Levi-Strauss!

[marcs]

I thought you would appreciate that one Pat