Changing palates as you age.

[Musigny 151]

I have seen it go both ways. Palates seem to change as we get older, and sometimes as we approach 60, they change radically. One group I know changed from nice people into 15/16% Zinfandel lovers. Then there is the other extreme; people who want nothing to do with high alcohol, and will only drink sub 14% classic wines. I am in the latter group, and I have noticed that I am increasingly dogmatic in my taste.

I brought this up at our Zoom, and was curious as to the group take.

[stefan]

I am 75. As my senses have declined, I have become more tolerant of wines that I consider over the top. I still don't like them very much, though, and continue to avoid big CA Syrahs and high alcohol Zinfandels. The downside is that I find it harder to appreciate very delicate wines and more difficult to detect various aromas and accents in the taste.

[JimHow]

I'm 62, emotionally I feel young.
I like classic Bordeaux, fleshy right bank Bordeaux, opulent Cali Zin.
I love life. I love it all.

[Claudius2]

Musigny
I largely agree with your taste buds.
I won't draw a line at 14%, but at 14.5%.
At 15% alcohol, the wine is too hot, spirity and "dead fruit" in character.
By dead fruit, think of the grape bunches starting to shrivel up and wilt in the sun. The fruit ends up tasting more like a raisin than a wine grape.

In my case (I'm 63) I think part of the change is age, part is living in a tropical climate, where "cooler" styles of wine are better.
So not sure if it is an age related issue, location or a combination of both.

So far my olfaction and taste do not seem to have diminished with age and I can still enjoy lighter styles of wine.
I was never a great Merlot lover but in recent decades, I've started to appreciate right bank wines more, and they now account for a larger proportion of total purchases.

The wine style I have gone off is simply anything where the alcohol throws the wine out of balance. I want some freshness, intense but not heavy fruit, and a degree of finesse.
I'm not sure there is a specific point at which everything changes but I will not longer buy anything with over 14.5%.

Having said that, most Australian producers are moving away from the Parkerised hi alcohol, tarry styles to those with some balance and not just power.

I still can't really handle the aromas and flavours of pungent Sav Blanc. I can happily drink a rounder style of Sancerre for example, but it isn't a grape for me.
It would make life easier if I could enjoy a broader range of varieties.
I only drink two whites with any regularity (chardonnay and riesling) plus the occasional Hunter Semillon, and tend to see other varieties more as a curio.
As for reds, I enjoy a broader range of styles, but most are PN, CS, Merlot or blends, with a few Italians and Spanish thrown in for good measure.
My Syrah consumption has steadily fallen over the years though I do think the balmy weather here is more to blame than my palate.
In recent years however, I have seriously upped consumption of NV Champagne which suits the weather here, mainly at the cost of Syrah.

cheers
Mark

[JimHow]

Yes Claudius but Jeff Leve would tell you that the 15.2% alcohol from the 2015 LMHB, the newly anointed “2021 BWE First Growth” <rolls eyes> Is “hidden” beneath the fruit. <rolls eyes again>

[Claudius2]

Jim
Yeah, I know we are never going to agree on all of this, but I'd say that with 15%+ ABV, it is more likely that the fruit is hidden beneath the alcohol......
cheers
Mark

PS - for the most part I quite like Jeff Leve's notes on Cellartracker but try to understand the style/s preferred of the tasters in any case.

[marcs]

I am just 53 but definitely moving sharply in the direction of low-alcohol more subtle wines. I don't know if that's my experience in wine or my age.

I will say that it's not just about flavors -- my body can't handle the alcohol. Too much alcohol simultaneously makes me tired and interferes with sleep. It's a problem, since my threshold for "too much alcohol" is low. But I have really come to dislike almost everything about "loud" high alcohol wines, the flavors included.

But good "classical" wines are harder and harder to find. It is getting rare to find wines below 13.5 these days in either Bordeaux or Burgundy, you have to look to cool weather vintages. It used to be routine for wines to be 12.5% or even less.

I guess I should worry that if my palate gets blunter with age and needs intense flavors to register I will have amassed a lot of lower-key wines. But I don't find favorite wines like Leoville Barton or Chevillon or Togni or what have you to be lacking in flavor at all. They are quite intense in their way.

Where it may show up is less appreciation for old (30-35 year+) wines, this has already happened for me. Or perhaps I already didn't like these wines as much and have just gotten to taste more over the years. To give an example, I have had a clear preference for the 2000 Pichon Baron over the 1989 when tasting them the same evening. Even though both are excellent wines I found the 1989 tasted a bit "faded" in comparison to the 2000. But basically my entire collection is between 4 and 25 years old though, with most well under 20 years old, so I don't think that will be a problem. I have purchased with an eye to drinking wines between 15 and 25 years old, which I find is my favorite window for the classic French regions.

[Blanquito]

I'm 62, emotionally I feel young.
I like classic Bordeaux, fleshy right bank Bordeaux, opulent Cali Zin.
I love life. I love it all.

I hate life, I love none of it.

[marcs]

It's OK Pat, wait another 5 years and life will come around. 10 at most.

[Blanquito]

If only I were cheerful and sunny, all wine would taste good! <rolls eyes>

[JoelD]

At 33, I'll weigh in from a slightly different perspective. I like most people who go down the wine rabbit hole, started with the big alcoholic zins and Parker cabs/cocktail wines etc. I have done the slow(or fast, its all relative) transformation over the last 3-4 years towards liking almost only old world wines with lower and lower alcohol. I don't cut off at 14, more around 14.5 for bordeaux. However I find myself wishing those good ones at 14.5 were just a tad lower. 13-13.5 seems to be my sweet spot. And I am seeing this become more prominent.

I have a few factors that I believe may have accelerated my movement towards these wines. One is pretty much cutting out hard alcohol, it burns the tongue and the taste buds and I noticed it affected my wine tasting. After cutting that out, I definitely appreciate and gravitate towards the lower alcohol, old world wines.

The 2nd is cutting out most spicy(and/or heavily spiced) foods, which are usually the enemy of wine pairing. Except for maybe a great riesling that pairs well with these. These spices do the same thing to the taste buds.

I think that those two factors, combined with going down the rabbit hole have really accelerated the process and I would be curious to see if others here have noticed anything similar with their palates.

PS. Please dear God, don't make me go back to those 15-16% Zins. I think I'll have to quit.

[Racer Chris]

I'm 62, emotionally I feel young.
I like classic Bordeaux, fleshy right bank Bordeaux, opulent Cali Zin.
I love life. I love it all.

I hate life, I love none of it.

Here's a bit of poetry to cheer you up Pat,
"A is for Amy who fell down the stairs.
B is for Basil, assaulted by Bears.
C is for Clara who wasted away.
D is for Desmond, thrown out of a sleigh.
..."

The Gashlycrumb Tinies on Youtube

[stefan]

>>
I like most people who go down the wine rabbit hole, started with the big alcoholic zins and Parker cabs/cocktail wines etc.
>>

That's interesting. In my early days I liked Bordeaux when it was 12% and also drank a lot of German Riesling at 10.5 - 11.5. Wine was a welcome change from neat Scotch and Martinis made with the Vermouth in the next room opened and closed quickly.

[Nicklasss]

For me, not related to age but more on periods. I drink Bordeaux for a period, than switch to italian wines, than riesling, than white Bourgogne, than Rhône, than red Bourgogne, than USA reds, than back to Bordeaux.

I'm sad for BWEers that like their red Bordeaux with 14% or less alcohol, as they won't be produced any more in 5-10 years. Critics are already liking and rating well the 15.2 % alcohol red Bordeaux, the sheeps will follow, global warming will do the rest. Oh no, I forgot, touriga national planted in Bordeaux will save the day?

Finally, I like them all like Jim, but I'm still not happy like blanquito.

Nic

[JoelD]

>>
I like most people who go down the wine rabbit hole, started with the big alcoholic zins and Parker cabs/cocktail wines etc.
>>

That's interesting. In my early days I liked Bordeaux when it was 12% and also drank a lot of German Riesling at 10.5 - 11.5. Wine was a welcome change from neat Scotch and Martinis made with the Vermouth in the next room opened and closed quickly.

Apologies Bill, I should have qualified that I was referring to Americans that got started in wine during the Parker Era. Obviously a bit of a blanket statement, but definitely seems to be a lot of people in this camp. I wish I had seen the light sooner. I wouldn't have to sell off all of these Napa cabs now.

[DavidG]

My path is similar to Joel's but I still have a place reserved for wines with 15% or more alcohol on occasion. They’re cocktail wines and a single glass will substitute for that extra dry martini. And they have to have some semblance of balance - the flabby ooze-monsters won’t get a second sip.

This has all been due to personal preference rather than changing or diminished sensory capacity, at least as far as I can tell. At 64 I’m sure my olfactory sense is not as acute as it was 30 years ago. But that hasn’t driven me back into the arms of over-ripe Chateauneuf or had me lusting for big fat Zins.

[OrlandoRobert]

I have seen it go both ways. Palates seem to change as we get older, and sometimes as we approach 60, they change radically. One group I know changed from nice people into 15/16% Zinfandel lovers. Then there is the other extreme; people who want nothing to do with high alcohol, and will only drink sub 14% classic wines. I am in the latter group, and I have noticed that I am increasingly dogmatic in my taste.

I brought this up at our Zoom, and was curious as to the group take.

I personally witnessed my father’s aging palate change in his ‘60s, migrating from a once-classic palate to more of a new world palate. He really went in big on 2007 Chateauneuf, if that’s any indication. And now as he hits 80, and still healthy, I have noticed his palate reverting back a bit. He seems to be coming back to what I drink, and does not appear to be buying or enjoying the high octane wines. I’ll ask him about it and circle back. My Pop is a cool dude, and he introduced me to wine many decades ago.

My palate is much like your’s, Mark. I think you know that. I have a very dogmatic, somewhat narrow-band palate. I like what I like and my collection is about 95% of that expression: 40% classic Bordeaux, 25% Northern Rhone, 20% Chinon, 10% Beaujolais and 5% miscellaneous (probably mostly Zins, my one guilty pleasure, but there, I go the lower alcohol vein, like Bedrock, Sky and Ridge). I started my wine journey more seriously in my mid-20s and was immediately smitten by Bordeaux, then Chinon, and then was introduced to August Clape Cornas. It was light’s out from that point. While I flirted with some wines back then that Parker raved about, some Cali Cults, Aussies, Spanish bombs, etc., I always came back to my core. I don’t venture too far out now.

I wonder where my palate goes over time. I did notice after having Covid several months ago, that my palate, especially my olfactory sense, diminished. I’m still not 100% on the nose. The interesting part is, I still did not prefer the higher octane wines. I tried. They are still too heavy and lush. But on the otherhand, like Stefan notes above, I could not pick up the full nuances on some complex wines that I knew before expressed a wider range of what I detected. I still enjoyed them, but I had to hold off popping some of these expensive beauties until my nose came back around. The most interesting part was, I went ga-ga over Champagne. The higher acid, effervescence, etc., totally worked. I’ve been drinking and enjoy some great Champagne lately, including lots of Krug and Dom. Had the 2004 Krug Clos du Mesnil a few weeks ago, and behind a 1982 Chateau Haut Brion that I had last week, it’s my next favorite wine of the year.

[marcs]

My palate is much like your’s, Mark. I think you know that. I have a very dogmatic, somewhat narrow-band palate. I like what I like and my collection is about 95% of that expression: 40% classic Bordeaux, 25% Northern Rhone, 20% Chinon, 10% Beaujolais and 5% miscellaneous (probably mostly Zins, my one guilty pleasure, but there, I go the lower alcohol vein, like Bedrock, Sky and Ridge). I started my wine journey more seriously in my mid-20s and was immediately smitten by Bordeaux, then Chinon, and then was introduced to August Clape Cornas. It was light’s out from that point.

Little known fact -- the Northern Rhone is a hot region that produces high alcohol wines.

I like Northern Rhone (though not as much as Bordeaux/Burgundy) too and it's a bit of an exception to my distaste for high alcohol wines, I wonder if its because the sweet/savory distinction is just as important as high vs low alcohol wines.

[Musigny 151]

I have seen it go both ways. Palates seem to change as we get older, and sometimes as we approach 60, they change radically. One group I know changed from nice people into 15/16% Zinfandel lovers. Then there is the other extreme; people who want nothing to do with high alcohol, and will only drink sub 14% classic wines. I am in the latter group, and I have noticed that I am increasingly dogmatic in my taste.

I brought this up at our Zoom, and was curious as to the group take.

I personally witnessed my father’s aging palate change in his ‘60s, migrating from a once-classic palate to more of a new world palate. He really went in big on 2007 Chateauneuf, if that’s any indication. And now as he hits 80, and still healthy, I have noticed his palate reverting back a bit. He seems to be coming back to what I drink, and does not appear to be buying or enjoying the high octane wines. I’ll ask him about it and circle back. My Pop is a cool dude, and he introduced me to wine many decades ago.

My palate is much like your’s, Mark. I think you know that. I have a very dogmatic, somewhat narrow-band palate. I like what I like and my collection is about 95% of that expression: 40% classic Bordeaux, 25% Northern Rhone, 20% Chinon, 10% Beaujolais and 5% miscellaneous (probably mostly Zins, my one guilty pleasure, but there, I go the lower alcohol vein, like Bedrock, Sky and Ridge). I started my wine journey more seriously in my mid-20s and was immediately smitten by Bordeaux, then Chinon, and then was introduced to August Clape Cornas. It was light’s out from that point. While I flirted with some wines back then that Parker raved about, some Cali Cults, Aussies, Spanish bombs, etc., I always came back to my core. I don’t venture too far out now.

I wonder where my palate goes over time. I did notice after having Covid several months ago, that my palate, especially my olfactory sense, diminished. I’m still not 100% on the nose. The interesting part is, I still did not prefer the higher octane wines. I tried. They are still too heavy and lush. But on the otherhand, like Stefan notes above, I could not pick up the full nuances on some complex wines that I knew before expressed a wider range of what I detected. I still enjoyed them, but I had to hold off popping some of these expensive beauties until my nose came back around. The most interesting part was, I went ga-ga over Champagne. The higher acid, effervescence, etc., totally worked. I’ve been drinking and enjoy some great Champagne lately, including lots of Krug and Dom. Had the 2004 Krug Clos du Mesnil a few weeks ago, and behind a 1982 Chateau Haut Brion that I had last week, it’s my next favorite wine of the year.

Nose can’t be that bad. 1982 HB is one of the most quietly complex wines I know.

[s*d*r]

The only change I’ve noticed is that the older I get the more expensive I like my wines .

[DavidG]

The only change I’ve noticed is that the older I get the more expensive I like my wines .

That should be partly mitigated by the wines in your cellar gaining value as they age with you.

[Claret]

At 60 no real change except going full circle back to Italians with a new appreciation of the whites.