If and When to Decant Older/Middle Aged Bordeaux

[JoelD]

I thought I'd take a short break from all the rankings discussion to pose a question that I have been meaning to on here for some time now.

What are everyone's thoughts on how and when to decant, or give a lot of air with the slow ox/Audoze Method? Specifically for Bordeaux from the 70s through the mid 2000's?

I assume that we can skip some of the obvious, such as young Bordeaux or ones from big vintages such as 05/09/10. But how do you all decide for the rest?

Especially when you have never tried a wine before. CellarTracker can seem to very greatly on this, and it seems to be a very bottle to bottle decision.

I have some wines that I intend to open this month and wanted to put my best foot forward, especially for wines that don't have the obvious signs of needing to be decanted, or extra slow ox air. Here are some I may open that could be used as examples, however I was hoping to get a little more general insight from everyone here that has a lot of experience with older Bordeaux.

1979 Las Cases
1982 La Dominique
1986 Priure Lichine
1986 D'issan
1986 Pichon Lalande
1986 Lynch Bages
1989 Pichon Baron
1989 La Dominique
1990 Las Cases
1995 Haut Bailly
2000 Haut Bailly

[stefan]

I avoid decanting anything other than wines that are too young to drink. In your list above I would open and check the first four 1-2 hours before drinking them and possibly recork after smelling and tasting the wine. The rest I would open 3-4 hours before and expect not to recork.

[JoelD]

I avoid decanting anything other than wines that are too young to drink. In your list above I would open and check the first four 1-2 hours before drinking them and possibly recork after smelling and tasting the wine. The rest I would open 3-4 hours before and expect not to recork.

Thanks Stefan. I did the La Dominique 82 tonight and it was quite good without much air. Maybe 30 minutes open. Then I used one of the air pump corks to at least semi preserve it. Will see if the last glass holds up tomorrow or not.

[DavidG]

I find these hard to predict if I haven't had any past experience with the specific wine/vintage. Unfortunately most people on CellarTracker don't post details of how long it took a wine to show well. I agree with Stefan re: the Pchons, Lynch, Las Cases, and Haut Baillys. When I'm not sure, I'll open an hour or two ahead, pour a glass, watch how the wine develops, and when it gets to where I want if not ready to finish it I'll put in a Repour. Joel, I can't recall if it was you that said you noticed some off aromas/tastes with Repour. If not, you might try it.

[JoelD]

I find these hard to predict if I haven't had any past experience with the specific wine/vintage. Unfortunately most people on CellarTracker don't post details of how long it took a wine to show well. I agree with Stefan re: the Pchons, Lynch, Las Cases, and Haut Baillys. When I'm not sure, I'll open an hour or two ahead, pour a glass, watch how the wine develops, and when it gets to where I want if not ready to finish it I'll put in a Repour. Joel, I can't recall if it was you that said you noticed some off aromas/tastes with Repour. If not, you might try it.

Thanks David. I have used Repour before and may play around with it some more. Yes it was me who noticed that, but only on older Barolo. Very different grape of course.

A piece of my question was also, what to look for after its open to decide if you might want to decant? or just give a lot of air in the bottle?

Hard and tannic is the obvious one, but I was looking more for when it appears to be closed down and might come alive with more air. Or if there are any odd notes/smells that need to blow off.The 1989 Lynch Bages was a good example of one that definitely needed the air to come around, a decant may have been worth it for that one. I think we did around 4 hours tracking it in the bottle.

Definitely a guessing game, but trying to up my chances.

[marcs]

I have found that decanting is more valuable for Burgundy than Bordeaux. I've had a lot of experiences with Bordeaux where it's fantastic right out of the bottle and doesn't necessarily improve (although it does change) with significant aeration. Of course there are experiences where decanting does help, but it doesn't seem to be as predictable as it is with Burgundy.

Also, I have not found that a Bordeaux which is genuinely too young can be fixed by decanting. It's just wisest not to open Bordeaux between say 5 and 15 years old. Some vintages (2009) are exceptions in that the fruit is so wonderful that they can be fun to drink in that window even though they aren't really showing what they have, some smaller vintages drink well younger, but in general I just try to avoid the Bordeaux "valley of death"

[Phil David]

I generally decant to get the wine off the sediment, so that's most red wines old enough to drink. Anything else is foo, I suspect.

[Ognik]

The more you know...
To be honest. None of them.

[s*d*r]

It’s useful to distinguish between “decant” and “carafe.”

Like most, I decant wine for sediment. Most wines over 10 years old have some sediment. While you can drink the sediment, I often find it gritty or bitter. I decant all old wine and certainly would all the wines in your list. The question is what to do after you decant it.

I routinely double decant,ie immediately repour the wine from the carafe back into the original bottle (cleaned with bottled water if necessary). At this point, whether to put the cork or stopper back in or not doesn’t make much difference unless you are carrying the bottle to a restaurant.

I don’t see any advantage to the Audouze method of opening but never decanting but then I don’t drink nineteenth century wines like François .

Of course as David suggests you can try a small sample at intervals from the carafe a new then decide if it’s ready to pour back in the bottle. I rarely find that necessary for wines 20+ years old though and usually find it unnecessarily fussy. I prefer to allow the decanted wine to evolve in the glass so I don’t miss any of the developing aromatics.

That’s just my practice though. There’s a wide range of opinion out there so the best advice is to try a variety of schemes and see which suits you best.

Stu

[DavidG]

Sometimes young cab-based wines turn even more fiercely tannic with air. I'm no good at predicting that either but when it happens the wine is sentenced to at least 1-2 Blanquitos.

I agree with Stu on following the wine over time in the glass. That’s pretty easy drinking at home without company and for me is part of the fun and learning. Where you really need to know is when 6 or 8 people are sharing a bottle and you’re only going to have one glass/one shot at finding the sweet spot. Nothing beats recent experience or advice from someone with recent experience.

[JimHow]

I agree with Ognik.

[JoelD]

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing guys.

Here is what I gleaned. Wine is complex. Don't try to get cute. Just try to drink it at the right age with some air in the bottle and the glass.

Decanters are generally not your friend in Bordeaux unless you have a very good reason based on solid info.

This was enlightening. I really thought more people here would utilize decanters for air, not just sediment. I have moved off of them with burgundy, almost completely. Maybe it's time to follow suit with Bordeaux.

[Claudius2]

Joel
My experience with Burgundy is that with no evidence of a crust there is little point in decanting.
So I pop and sip. I’ll leave it to breathe a little if and only if it is a bit stinky. These days I like it without merde.

With Bordeaux I decant pretty well all of them but for old wines I simply do it to get the crust out. Never double decant. If the wine is quite old I will only pop it shortly beforehand. So with younger wines I’ll decant maybe an hour or two before dinner but I have to put the decanter in a wine fridge in the tropical climate!

It can be a mistake to decant very old wines as too often they will oxidize quickly.
For Aussie wines most of the time I don’t bother decanting at all. I just let them breathe for a while.

[s*d*r]

One friend claims that there is little or no difference between decanting then double decanting back into the bottle vs. letting the wine sit in the carafe for hours. That is, pouring the wine from bottle into the carafe (decanter) introduces so much air into the system that additional air time in an open vessel is trivial. I do not have enough experience comparing the two methods to know if he is right.

Stu

[Jay Winton]

One friend claims that there is little or no difference between decanting then double decanting back into the bottle vs. letting the wine sit in the carafe for hours. That is, pouring the wine from bottle into the carafe (decanter) introduces so much air into the system that additional air time in an open vessel is trivial. I do not have enough experience comparing the two methods to know if he is right.

Stu

I agree with that and generally leave the wine in the decanter. As for burgs or any pinot, I think decanting in general can be helpful unless the wine is old.

[JCNorthway]

For many years I rarely decanted wines unless I knew they were tannic and needed time to open and soften, or were old and might gain more life from decanting. But in the last year or so, I've found myself decanting almost all the red wines I open, regardless of varietal and age. Granted, sometimes it is only for 30-60 minutes, but I've found that almost all wines seem to benefit from this. It's also much easier for me to do this since I acquired a couple of basic decanters that are inexpensive, easy to handle, and also easy to clean (can be put in dishwasher though I don't do that) - link below to example.

https://www.amazon.com/Riedel-1440-13-C ... 481&sr=8-3