Great wine <$50

[Blanquito]

These recent threads on our wine spending and collecting philosophies got me thinking about wine values again. Can you really still get great wine for $50 or less? You could not all that long ago, but today available for sale in 2021?

And when I say great, I don’t mean great QPR. I don’t mean really good or almost great. I don’t mean the best wine you can get for $50 in a given region. I mean great wines, full stop. Now, these don’t have to be the best of the best, the Le Pins or DRC or Cristals of the wine world; just a great wine in its respective genre. If it helps to put a number on it, a wine that can hit 94 points or higher. And not every genre has to have a great wine for $50 (or at any price) — if you don’t really think, say, any Brunello ever ascends to greatness, then there’s no great Brunello.

Part of the challenge in putting together a list of such wines is there are so many wines that met these criteria for greatness not all that long ago — Levet Chavaroche Cote Rotie, Gonon St. Joseph, some Super Tuscans like Montevertine, loads of Chablis, some Barolo, etc. But price-escalation has put these great wines well above this affordability benchmark. What I am looking for are great, world class wines you can go out now and buy in 2021 for $50 or less. Case discounts count, back vintages which regularly show up on auction for <$50 count, but no steals or close-outs no one else can get.

Here’s my working list so far...

Red wines:
Musar
Ridge Geyserville
Lapierre Morgon   
Thivin Côte de Brouilly

White wines:
Malartic Lagraviere Blanc
Huet
Trimbach Riesling Cuvée Frederic Emile
JJ Prum
Hirtzberger Riesling Smaragd (various vineyards)
Alzinger Riesling Smaragd (various vineyards)
Thomas-Labaille Sancerre Chavignol Les Monts Damnés
Gérard Boulay Clos de Beaujeu and Chavignol Sancerres
Pascal Cotat Sancerre Chavignol Les Monts Damnes

This isn’t an easy exercise I find, especially for reds. A number of wines come close to greatness for <$50 — like St Innocent’s Pinots, Edmund St John’s Rhone wines, Pepiere’s Muscadets, some New World whites, Vincent Paris La Geynale, Faury VV St Joseph, and lots of claret like Branaire-Ducru, Gloria, d’Issan, du Tertre, etc. — that I just cannot quite include in the “great” category.

What am I missing? I am sure lovers of Bojo and Chinon will have some reds to add, and I suspect there are a few Italian reds I am unfamiliar with that meet this criteria (Mastroberardino in Taurasi?).

[Dandersson]

Blanquito,
Are you referring to Ch Musar from Lebanon? If so where can you find that for less than $50? I would buy!

Not sure that "great" is really going to be a clear enough description for what you are looking for. For me a great wine is most likely going to be a lot less "great" than for some of you guys that have a much better knowledge and have adjusted you taste to a higher quality than I have.
I guess Ch Cantemerle and Ch Ormes de pez would not be classed as great by a lot of you but they are for me. Interesting topic anyway looking forward to reading more about it.
Thank you!

Best, Dan

[OrlandoRobert]

I think Sociando Mallet is great, but you know that.

Baudry’s Croix Boissee is a GREAT wine. Could be best of your list so far. Joguet’s Chene Vert as well.

I will cheekily say that I still pay less than $50 for Gonon. . It’s great.

Frog’s Leap Cabernet. Classic Napa.

Bedrock Heritage. Amazing.

Sky Zinfandel. Classic old school, mountain Zin.

Bouland Morgon Delys Cuvee. Another gear for Beaujolais.

Roilette Cuvee Tardive. Arguably the most age-worthy, classic Beaujolais. I could have close to 100 bottles of this classy wine in my meager collection.

[Blanquito]

Blanquito,
Are you referring to Ch Musar from Lebanon? If so where can you find that for less than $50? I would buy!

Not sure that "great" is really going to be a clear enough description for what you are looking for. For me a great wine is most likely going to be a lot less "great" than for some of you guys that have a much better knowledge and have adjusted you taste to a higher quality than I have.
I guess Ch Cantemerle and Ch Ormes de pez would not be classed as great by a lot of you but they are for me. Interesting topic anyway looking forward to reading more about it.
Thank you!

Best, Dan

Yes, Chateau Musar from Lebanon, a divisive wine but one I think brilliant and singular. It is no longer easy to find below $50 and you have to be careful a shop is not actually selling the cheaper cuvée, Hochar, but wine-searcher pro shows lots of it out there for <$50. Here’s one example: https://tarzanawineandspirits.com/shop/ ... 342bda52ac

[Dandersson]

Blanquito,
I agree Ch Musar is awesome. In my home country it is available for about $45 but I can't go back to visit anytime soon. Thinking about ordering some of the wines there to be delivered to my mom or sister.
On the topic of Hochar, have you tried that one? I haven't and kind of interested to see if the quality is still there in the lower offering.

Best, Dan

[Blanquito]

Great list, Robert. I just have had so little Chinon that I was reluctant to nominate any myself, and bojo is also a fairly new pleasure but Lapierre and Thivin have both really spoken to me in the last year or two.

I see I need to try some Frog’s Leap and Bedrock! Never even heard of Sky Zinfandel. But most importantly, hook me up with some of your Gonon!!!

I struggled with Sociando. Second only to Ridge, I have more Sociando in my cellar than any other wine. I love Sociando, I admire Sociando. I just can’t call it a great wine. That said, I have had some great bottles of Sociando and I definitely would put the 1990 in the great category, but enough bottles are just below the greatness level for me (mostly due to a sense of dilution). La Lagune and Cantemerle are other candidates that I couldn’t quite add because I think the jury is still out on the greatness of their vintages since the 80’s.

[Blanquito]

I also need to try a Roilette Cuvee Tardive with some age on it — I tried a bottle of the 2018 recently, which I liked but it was too candied (at least right now) for me to love.

[JCNorthway]

I would nominate several recent vintages of Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia at less than $50/bottle - I think these were all rated at 94-95 points. And I think a really under the radar wine for way less than $50/bottle is any of the 2015-2017 Domaine du Cayron Gigondas - again, rated at 94-95 points. While I enjoy really good Bordeaux (and other) wines, I am a value wine person at heart. Out of over 1200 bottles, I think I paid over $100 for fewer than maybe 20 bottles. And my overall average cost per bottle is <$50, mostly because I stock up on lower priced wines for daily drinking.

[stefan]

There are many great Sauternes that can be purchased for $50.

[Blanquito]

I would nominate several recent vintages of Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia at less than $50/bottle - I think these were all rated at 94-95 points. And I think a really under the radar wine for way less than $50/bottle is any of the 2015-2017 Domaine du Cayron Gigondas - again, rated at 94-95 points. While I enjoy really good Bordeaux (and other) wines, I am a value wine person at heart. Out of over 1200 bottles, I think I paid over $100 for fewer than maybe 20 bottles. And my overall average cost per bottle is <$50, mostly because I stock up on lower priced wines for daily drinking.

I strongly considered several Chianti and of course Rancia has to be in that mix along with Fontodi Vigna del Sorbo and Monsanto Il Poggio (and probably Selvapiana Riserva). If I had to pick one, it would be the Monsanto.

I used to LOVE Cayron when I was in grad school. The 2001 was a gem. I will track down some of the newer vintages and reacquaint myself.

[Blanquito]

There are many great Sauternes that can be purchased for $50.

Absolutely and stickies in general. In fact, I would argue the majority of great Sauternes cost less then $50 especially in half bottle. The same could be said about most of the other great dessert wine regions of the world.

I meant to add the note to my OP that, for this reason, I was intentionally omitting dessert wines.

[OrlandoRobert]

I would nominate several recent vintages of Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia at less than $50/bottle - I think these were all rated at 94-95 points. And I think a really under the radar wine for way less than $50/bottle is any of the 2015-2017 Domaine du Cayron Gigondas - again, rated at 94-95 points. While I enjoy really good Bordeaux (and other) wines, I am a value wine person at heart. Out of over 1200 bottles, I think I paid over $100 for fewer than maybe 20 bottles. And my overall average cost per bottle is <$50, mostly because I stock up on lower priced wines for daily drinking.

Excellent list!

I just had a 1997 Rancia that was stunning. Makes me rethink my whole paradigm on how I mature Chianti.

Cayron is a great choice. And the 2016 smokes.

And wow how did I miss this one - Pegau!!! I paid under $50 for 2018 and 2017. The prices are going backwards. Doesn’t get more classic, and great, than this.

Notice most of my choices are drinkers’ wines. I buy to drink. These are solid choices up and down this thread.

[Blanquito]

One sub-question of this post: do you agree that great, fantastic, even world-class white wines are much easier to find at a ‘reasonable’ tariff than the comparable red?

You only get to vote if you actually in principle like white wine as much as (or nearly as much as) red wine!

[Musigny 151]

Nobody mentioned Champagne
I buy Roederer for $36

[jckba]

Some additional ones off the top

Tempier Rose
Laherte Freres BdB
Marc Hebrart Rose
Keller Von der Fels
Olga Raffault Les Picasses
CVNE Vina Real Gran Reserva
Lopez de Heredia Bosconia / Tondonia Reserva
Burlotto Pelaverga
Produttori di Barbaresco
Foillard Cote du Puy
Ghislaine Barthod Les Bons Batons Bourgogne

[stefan]

"do you agree that great, fantastic, even world-class white wines are much easier to find at a ‘reasonable’ tariff than the comparable red?"

If you restrict to Chardonnay based whites, they are much harder to find IMO. OTOH, there are a plethora of even Grand Cru Classe Bordeaux Cabernet predominant wines that are world class.

[JimHow]

Boy, I'm really having trouble thinking of any "great" wines for under $50.
The Giscours of the world have all gone up in the $60-70 range, or more.
There was a time when I could buy 1994 Margaux and Haut Brion, and 1995 Ducru and PLL for under $50, but those days are long gone.

[William P]

Since great is always so subjective it's a difficult task. As the Dead said. "One man gathers what another man spills."

2016 LaFon Rochet $45.00. Bordeaux
2018 Lingua Franca Avni Chardonnay $30.00. Willamette Valley.

Bill

[robert goulet]

85 % of Loire valley

[robert goulet]

2016 Sociando is $42.99 at T.Joes

[AKR]

Most of the time CVNE Imperial Reserva is well under $50, and sometimes you can even buy the Gran Reserva level of the same for $50ish.

If you like red Rhones, Charvin and Vieux Donjon are often $50, and excellent to my taste - real stalwarts of their AOC.

[marcs]

I opened this thread intending to mention Felsina Rancia and Pegau, but I see others were there before me.

What about Foillard Cote de Py?

I agree with Pat that Sociando is good but not great.

Weirdly, although I wouldn't make this claim for Lanessan in general, I recently had a second bottle of the 2000 Lanessan and it's almost verging on great for me. It lacks the complexity and depth to put it over the top as "great", but for purity, structure, quality of fruit, and just pleasure and ease in what it is it rivals great wines I've had. $15-20 Bordeaux can do crazy things with age. It's hard to mention any one producer that does this totally reliably but we've all had those great experiences.

[Blanquito]

Pegau is a great CDP, I agree, and indeed in less acclaimed vintages it is just under $50 still (but the fancy vintages are more like $70-$75). But I stopped buying Pegau after all of the bottles in a 6-pack of the 08 were wildly unstable and spritzy with secondary fermentation. Totally undrinkable. But still, maybe I should revisit. You guys recommend any of the less heralded vintages?

[Blanquito]

Boy, I'm really having trouble thinking of any "great" wines for under $50.
The Giscours of the world have all gone up in the $60-70 range, or more.
There was a time when I could buy 1994 Margaux and Haut Brion, and 1995 Ducru and PLL for under $50, but those days are long gone.

Exactly. I started thinking about this and realized all basically all of the “great” wines (totally agree that this is a very subjective metric) of Bordeaux are now at least like $75.

Again, for pre-1990 vintages, I would unquestionably put La Lagune and Cantemerle in the greatness range, and these chateau are still $50 or less. I’m just not as wild about the post-1990 vintages, so the jury is out on if these can still attain greatness.

[OrlandoRobert]

Pegau is a great CDP, I agree, and indeed in less acclaimed vintages it is just under $50 still (but the fancy vintages are more like $70-$75). But I stopped buying Pegau after all of the bottles in a 6-pack of the 08 were wildly unstable and spritzy with secondary fermentation. Totally undrinkable. But still, maybe I should revisit. You guys recommend any of the less heralded vintages?

I totally eschew this notion.

Great wineries often produce great wines in allegedly less-great vintages. First consider who is declaring vintages, “great”. Recall what Parker said about 2007, and all of the lemmings, sheep, scoundrels and sycophants got behind him, and look what it created. I fell prey to that hype, and have since cleared out every single 07 I bought, which was easily 10 cases. (PS. I did like some of the Cotes du Rhone). I would avoid 2015 like the plague - it’s a hot one - yet the normal critics that fawn over rocket fuel love it. I do think 2016 is exceptional, and yes, prices reflect that. But damn, 2017 is quite decent, and wineries like Pegau and Beaucastel made major winners. I could not believe I bought 2017 and 2018 Pegau for under $50. That’s amazing, for a great wine. Charvin is in that camp as well, someone mentioned that above. My big 2018 purchases were Pegau and Charvin. Charvin’s 2018 Cotes du Rhone is amazing, snag it by the case.

[Blanquito]

Ha, yes! “Great” vintages are often misnomers for me too, e.g. 07 CdP, 03 Bordeaux (Parker at least ranked lots of 03 claret very highly even if he offered some notes of caution in his vintage overview), big vintages in Cali. These are, or should be, cautionary tales for anyone who follows wine critics closely. Which region we are talking about is also important — the southern Rhone is basically the last place I want a big, ripe, hot vintage, as those wines are already generally at or beyond my ripeness tolerance in a normal year. But I am finding I prefer (for now) the bigger vintages in places like Chinon, red Burgundy, and even Bordeaux sometimes (but only for traditional, old school producers).

[Musigny 151]

The value is the Vallanna Gattinara 2009. Some of you may have tasted the brilliant vallana Spannas from the 1960s, still drinking beautifully. The one currently available is 2009. And still priced around $22

Lafouge Auxey comes in just under $50, and the wonderful Glantenay basic Volnay can be found at Garnet.

[JoelD]

The value is the Vallanna Gattinara 2009. Some of you may have tasted the brilliant vallana Spannas from the 1960s, still drinking beautifully. The one currently available is 2009. And still priced around $22

Lafouge Auxey comes in just under $50, and the wonderful Glantenay basic Volnay can be found at Garnet.

That Gattinara sounds great mark. Any leads on where you can get the 09 for $22? The best I see is 30-35$ on Wine-Searcher

[marcs]

Re Vallanna, based on various forum recommendations I tried the 2016 Vallanna Campi Raudii. Far from a great wine for me. Solid wine/good QPR but no more than that. This may be because I don't like Nebbiolo very much outside of a few top Barolos, but this seemed evidently far inferior to producers like Produttori (which I also am not a huge fan of because Nebbiolo, but I can recognize it's really good). Of course the price is so low there is no reason not to try a bottle and see for yourself.

[Musigny 151]

Looks like the Spanna is available here.

https://shop.wineconn.com/templates/ip_ ... kns=passed

[DavidG]

Depends on what "great" means. Top 10% of wines I've drunk? That's a high bar, and based on that none come to mind as currently available at $50.

Lower the bar a bit to excellent wines that reliably deliver in most/many vintages and allow for QPR to factor into the equation? Then I agree with many above. I'll second the votes for Sociando, Cantemerle, many Sauternes, Geyserville, Huest, Produttori, Raffault Picasses. In CdP, I agree with Pegau and will add Charvin when they are on sale for $50 - not always obtainable at that price.

[Blanquito]

Depends on what "great" means. Top 10% of wines I've drunk? That's a high bar, and based on that none come to mind as currently available at $50.

Top 10% (but not really any higher than that) is in essence what I am thinking, David, and if there are still wines that can get to that level for a ‘reasonable’ sticker price. I put Musar and Geyserville (at least some bottles/vintages) in that zone and maybe a few other reds and lots of whites (though no Chardonnay or champagne).

This thread has given me a number of wines to track down, which is great, but it really has served to convince me that the goal posts really have moved.

[OrlandoRobert]

Depends on what "great" means. Top 10% of wines I've drunk? That's a high bar, and based on that none come to mind as currently available at $50.

Top 10% (but not really any higher than that) is in essence what I am thinking, David, and if there are still wines that can get to that level for a ‘reasonable’ sticker price. I put Musar and Geyserville (at least some bottles/vintages) in that zone and maybe a few other reds and lots of whites (though no Chardonnay or champagne).

This thread has given me a number of wines to track down, which is great, but it really has served to convince me that the goal posts really have moved.

Now you guys are setting a pretty high bar.

Of the wines I have listed, I’d still put the following on that “great” list per your very specific definition:

Baudry Croix Boisse, Chinon. For Chinon and Loire Cab Franc lovers, you can make the case that only Rougeard is better. This is a true vin de garde.

Domaine Pegau. A classic, a wine known to deliver year in and year out. One of only three CDPs that I buy, Charvin too.

Sociando. It hits that right note for me. The number one wine in my cellar.

[Blanquito]

Side bar: I put Produttori de Barbaresco in the same category as Sociando: world class QPR, a big part of my cellar, great longevity, perfect style (for my palate), and just shy of true greatness. Like the 82 and 90 Sociando, I have had some Produttori Riservas from the ‘70’s that have been truly epic, 95+ pt wines but no vintages since have really rocked my world. Maybe the more recent vintages are too young still to really tell (the large bulk of PdB I’ve had has been from 2001-present and I’ve never had a correct bottle from the 80’s), but the riservas are now pretty much $65-$70 or more and the Normale is a step down.

[JCNorthway]

Blanquito, if you like the Produttori style, consider the 2016 Normale, which scores essentially the same as recent riservas - +/- 1 or 2 points.

[Tom In DC]

Very few great wines under $50, blanquito. And several on your original list have only one (weak?) vintage from one source at or below your price point.

[stefan]

D'Armailhac, La Lagune, d'Issan, Cantemerle, du Tertre,...

The list of Grand Cru Classe estates that produce great wines in some vintages is very long. All of those above are currently under $50 for 2019 futures as are many other wines that are great in some vintages.

[Blanquito]

Some additional ones off the top

Tempier Rose
Laherte Freres BdB
Marc Hebrart Rose
Keller Von der Fels
Olga Raffault Les Picasses
CVNE Vina Real Gran Reserva
Lopez de Heredia Bosconia / Tondonia Reserva
Burlotto Pelaverga
Produttori di Barbaresco
Foillard Cote du Puy
Ghislaine Barthod Les Bons Batons Bourgogne

Great list, JC.

I wrestled with putting Lopez de Heredia on my list. I certainly have had Gran Reservas from them that have been 95+ pt wines, but I’m still waiting on a transcendent Reserva. I think it will happen once my stash get enough maturity, but still waiting. I could make an easier case in my own experience for CVNE’s Vina Real GR which has been a spectacular wine across the 60’s-80’s, but I didn’t put it on mainly because I have had so little from vintages since the 90’s.

For some reason, I drink very little rose. I bought a sampler pack based on WB reccos to try this summer, including Tempier’s, but I never got around to trying any. Rose certainly meets the price limits in this thread pretty much across the board, so it’s a promising category.

[Blanquito]

D'Armailhac, La Lagune, d'Issan, Cantemerle, du Tertre,...

The list of Grand Cru Classe estates that produce great wines in some vintages is very long. All of those above are currently under $50 for 2019 futures as are many other wines that are great in some vintages.

Yes, the 2019 pricing puts a lot of chateau back in the $50 or less ballpark. Based strictly on “recent” vintages (eg 2000-present), I would probably rank the estates you list from top to bottom as: d’Issan, La Lagune, du Tertre/d’Armailhac, Cantemerle. All are worthy, but d’Issan has been the one which has impressed me the most.

[Nicklasss]

I would say that great wines <50 $ a bottle is a function of what you like + vintage. So it is related to conjonction of many parameters, and very limited.

For me, the 2010 Chateau Cantemerle is a great wine, but I would not say that Cantemerle is a great wine in every vintage.

The 1996 Chateau Pontet Canet Jim opened in June 2019 in Washington DC was also a great wine, and <50 $ originally.

Some Côte Rôtie can surely enter that category too.

I'll try to get some more examples.

Nic