Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Let's say since 2014. The ranking pretty much goes like this:

2016
2015
2014 (possibly ranked higher with more "classic" lovers)
2017

My question is: Where exactly does 2018 and 2019 fall into this list? I purchased quite a bit of 2015 and 2016. I skipped 2017, but would be interested in knowing if 2018 or 2019 is also a skip. I haven't tried any of either vintage, but I am looking for some input by others who may have tried barrel samples or smaller chateau. Thanks.

St.

I've not had many 2018 and those were below the normal radar Bordeaux. Still I think there is less fruit than 2015 and more structure, but not as much structure as 2016.

I would add that the beauty of the 14,15, and 16 is they will develop on different time scales. So the younger here can buy them for the future and us dinosaurs can enjoy them in the near future and beyond.

The new pecking order would probably be:

2016
2019
2018
2015
2014
2017

Is it safe to say that 2018 would be comparable to 2015, and 2019 would be comparable to 2016?

Probably yes on the former but 2019 was a much warmer vintage than 2016.

Comte Flaneur wrote:The new pecking order would probably be:

2016
2019
2018
2014
2017

What happened to 2015?

It is my hypothesis that we are rapidly heading toward a singularity where all Bordeaux vintages are "great". Since 2014, we have 2015, 2016, 20217, 2018, and 2019. I have heard great or near great claimed for all except 2017. The technology is just that good these days.

And as a corollary to Marcus’ singularity, has greatness come at the expense of Bordeaux ever making a true vin garde vintage again a la 75, 86, 95, and at this point, probably 00 and 05? We can also debate if the occasional vin garde vintage is a good thing — as I get older, my interest in a vintage that takes 30+ years is basically over — but that’s a somewhat separate issue.

Did not tried 2018 or 2019 yet but hope they are as good as Comte Flaneur thinks, as I bought good amount of each vintage.

Now thinking (or saying) that all vintages from 2014 to 2019 are "great", this is a very "Bordelais point de vue". My limited view on that, is that I expect or guess that 2016-2018 are great, 2019-2015 excellent, and 2014-2017 more classical. But it is an impression only at the moment.

Nic

Guys
I cannot say much about 2018 or 19 but I’d rate the others as follows:
16
15
14
17

My limited experience with 2017 is lesser wines but as I’ve tried the exact same wines in other vintages, it is clear that 2017 is a good rather than great vintage yet to my palate the others are better.

In respect of the vin de garde style, 2014 is closer to the style of say, 95.
Not sure I’d say 75 was truly a vin de garde and I have drunk quite a lot of them over the years. The tannins were always firm and often dry and a little spiky even in some top wines and the tannins were often a bit too much for the fruit. Several excellent wines were made.

I don’t think 15 has received as much love as it probably deserves and the wines I’ve tried have been very good and fairly consistent in style.

2015 gets dinged as too ripe/"solar" and not enough fresh acidity. Anathema to the hard-core classicist. My level of tolerance for that is broader, and I don't think they'll be too far out on the ripeness spectrum to be a problem.

2015 may be becoming a relative bargain given the quality as it's a bit overlooked between 2014 being the "cheap" vintage and 2016 being the "great" vintage. I kind of wish I had jumped on a few more of the big 2015s back when I was buying (although I do have some 2015 VCC which should be fun).

I think 2015 may drink before 2014. 2014 reminds me of 2001 which took a long time to come around on the left bank.

I’ve bought some 2015s here and there, but my buying decisions are really guided by a simple proposition: I like 2016 and 2014 more, generally speaking. No need for me to buy any when the others were and some remain so widely available. I’m also at the age of a Bordeaux buyer - just turned 55 - where my new release purchases should be focused and picky.

Yeah, I am 53 and stopped with 2016, but I have bought widely from 2014-2016 on the assumption that my mid 60s should be within my planning horizon. I think those vintages will be coming around then.

I am literally just ignoring 2017 and after, except to offer unsolicited comments on threads like this LOL

That makes perfect sense Robert. I'm turning 65 next week and should have stopped after 2016. Backfilling as needed like Stefan does is the most sensible option at my age. I foolishly bought about 4 cases of 2019s, though I have an opportunity to bail if tariffs are still in place.

It sounds like both 2018 and 2019 are solid buys...but with 2019 being superior.

DavidG wrote:That makes perfect sense Robert. I'm turning 65 next week and should have stopped after 2016. Backfilling as needed like Stefan does is the most sensible option at my age. I foolishly bought about 4 cases of 2019s, though I have an opportunity to bail if tariffs are still in place.

You guys are all crazy. Especially Stefan. My idols for sure, but y’all cray!

Can I draft all of your wills and serve as executor?

DavidG wrote:That makes perfect sense Robert. I'm turning 65 next week and should have stopped after 2016. Backfilling as needed like Stefan does is the most sensible option at my age. I foolishly bought about 4 cases of 2019s, though I have an opportunity to bail if tariffs are still in place.

I think you may have posted this elsewhere before David, But what all did you purchase in those 4 cases of 2019?

Joel, looks like it somehow grew to a bit over 5 cases while I wasn’t watching.

Clinet x4
Conseillante x4
Haut Bailly x6
Haut Brion x4
Les Carmes Haut Brion x4
Lynch Bages x6
Montrose x6
Palmer x4
Pichon Lalande x4
Pichon Baron x4
Pontet Canet x4
Talbot x4
Tour St Christophe x4
Vieux Chateau Certan x4

David G
I’m a similar vintage (1957 in my case) and I also busted On 2019 Bordeaux EPs but I got more carried away and bought about a dozen cases. Best prices I’ve seen for a while and maybe I did not have enough work to do in lockdown. However I an reinstating my no EP promise.

In relation to 2015 I think the reputation of this vintage will improve with time and my palate does NOT like turbo charged hi alc wines. The 15’s I have drunk so far are fruity but well balanced and have freshness and length. Okay some may not fit that mould but if you can pick them up cheap by all means load up.

Mark, thank you, I feel a bit less nuts after reading that.

DavidG wrote:Joel, looks like it somehow grew to a bit over 5 cases while I wasn’t watching.

Clinet x4
Conseillante x4
Haut Bailly x6
Haut Brion x4
Les Carmes Haut Brion x4
Lynch Bages x6
Montrose x6
Palmer x4
Pichon Lalande x4
Pichon Baron x4
Pontet Canet x4
Talbot x4
Tour St Christophe x4
Vieux Chateau Certan x4

Definitely a nice mixed bag here. I have been more tempered thus far. And just have 3 each of Lynch Bages and Leoville Poyferre. I do plan to get some D'issan for sure, and also likely some Malescot St Exupery because those prices are very attractive.

Did you get all of those from Total Wine Concierge? I have been putting my orders for pickup in DE to avoid the taxes, at least for now.

They came from a variety of vendors, Total among them.

You guys can check out my website for info about 2018 and 2019 vintages.

I'll end with tasting 290-300 2018s.

Some 2019s will, however, be a bit better than 2018s. It's my opinion at the moment.

I know 2015 and 2018 are ripe vintages, but how does 2019 stack up with ripeness? Between 2015 and 2016?

Just based on GBF's recommendations and my recent experiences with the properties in recent years, and without having even tasted them, I'm buying a case each of both the 2018 and 2019 Corbin and Tour Saint Christophe.