Completely nutso auction price

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:09 pm

Claudius2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:54 am Last auction I "bought" a case each of 2018 Chambolle Musigny Les Cras 1er Cru and a Chassagne Montrachet Chevenottes, only to find that the seller of the Chassagne decided to keep the wine and complained the price was too low. The hammer price was SGD800 (plus 20% commission). Never seen that happen before, and the auctioneer was a little embarrassed. Hammer price plus commission for the Chambolle was SGD100, or around E62. However, the retail price is now at least SGD200, and with such escalation, I have been eyeing off alternatives to Burgundy. However, most keep disappointing me.

How does this happen? Whenever I've consigned wine to auction, I had to send it ahead of time and sign a contract that would have precluded changing my mind.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:14 pm

Blanquito wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:49 am
JimHow wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:19 am If I were to sell my cellar, I wonder what is the best option.
Tom did this, to a degree, not long ago and went with Zachys. Did you shop around for the best arrangement, Tom?

I thought Tom used HDH when he moved to CO.

I've consigned wine with AMC (pre-Rudy, wouldn't give them the time of day now), Heritage, and HDH. I was pleased with the service and fees with all of them. Net was probably a little better with AMC and HDH but hard to compare - different wines, different times.

Then there are the folks like GRW that will buy your cellar outright. I haven't looked at the relative value there but suspect that it's a lower risk/lower reward scenario compared to auctions.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:10 pm

I consigned with Zachy's as part of the move to Colorado. They had single-seller (me) online auction for most - the highest end lots went to a live auction in HK.

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:17 pm

Nice avatar Tom, is that the Duomo in Florence?

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:49 pm

It is the Duomo in Florence, Jacques. Can't wait to go back!

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:50 am

I hereby raise my glass to Brunelleschi.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:44 am

And raise a glass to Giotto, whose tower is placed to perfectly center its shadow on the dome on the seasonal equinoxes!

s*d*r · Post by **s*d*r** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:39 pm

I actually won a trophy wine at today’s HDH auction. I “only” bid 150% of the estimate. Most of the other trophies went for the usual 200% plus.

When you get old enough to know for sure you cannot finish your stash, you are liberated. You really don’t have to buy any wine at all. But if you do, you know you can spend a lot more on an occasional rare bottle you decide you cannot live without.

Stu

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:51 pm

Oh, what did you win Stu? Come on, level with us -- there is no shame here. Even if you're the dude who spent $5K on '75 Beychevelle we won't judge! Just enable

. I've always wondered who other bidders at HDH auctions are.

Speaking of not being able to finish your stash, what I wonder is what will happen when all the people who can't finish their stash sell their wines at once and it is like a tidal wave of Boomer/Gen X prestige wines that the younger generations don't drink all hitting the market at once. Prices do seem rock solid right now -- during my splurge last year, I bought a case of 1996 Leoville Poyferre from HDH for $140 a bottle like in December, and then in today's auction I saw ten (!) cases of the stuff going for $160 a bottle across all the cases. That's a 10% increase in two months.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:18 pm

The hell is going on here, it’s like we are in this weird Dadaist period, wine auction prices going crazy, real estate markets going crazy. Something doesn’t seem right. Now we’re back to bombing.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:57 pm

The real estate market makes the wine auction market seem sane and staid.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:56 am

I know what you mean, Patrick. Where we are looking, a place that is usually very stable and has a lot of undeveloped lots, the market has gone crazy.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:00 am

I wouldn't want to be the owner of any mid-town office space, regardless of the town.

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:37 am

Auction prices are def. an avg qpr at best, but that doesn't bother me...I just look at as a portal for accessing hard to find and well aged wines. This is what I am seeking and if I happen to get a good deal on it, well then that's even better.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:31 am

David
I have never seen that happen in four decades of auction hunting.
The auctioneer could have said to the vendor that the wine has legitimately been sold but I gather he did not want a temperamental seller.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:36 am

Some idiot named "D" bid more than $100 for La Lagune 2009 at a current auction. This wine is complete crap and, anyway, can be bought for $63 in the USA (and under $50 in some other countries).

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:18 pm

stefan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:36 am Some idiot named "D" bid more than $100 for La Lagune 2009 at a current auction. This wine is complete crap and, anyway, can be bought for $63 in the USA (and under $50 in some other countries).

Confession time: I spent $100/bottle for four bottles of 2009 and 2010 La Lagune last year when I lost control at an auction. And I was thinking of Stefan while doing it! One of the incidents that made me feel I had to curb this habit.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:26 pm

Padre stefan withholds absolution for that particular sin, Marcus, but for your penance you must drink an entire bottle of 2013 Bordeaux. Extra time off in Purgatory if you can successfully tempt others to bid up the price of any 2013 Bordeaux in an auction

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:17 pm

I have a bottle of 2013 Bordeaux, Ch. Talbot. I will drink the entire bottle and it will not feel like penance. I just hope it doesn't feel like a total waste of money.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:21 pm

Look forward to your opinion. I’m not as down on 2013 as Stefan. I actually liked the 2013 La Lagune, as well as the 2013 Le Fiefs de Lagrange.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:12 am

You are such a total Bordeaux slut Jim. Has there ever been a Bordeaux you haven’t liked? Just GPL and that’s it?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:27 am

Ha, pretty much, Marcus.
In all seriousness, the 2013 isn't as crazy bad as Stefan and others would have you believe.
I actually liked the 100% cabernet 2013 La Lagune and would have bought some if it was just a little less expensive than the $50 it was going for on release.
We were in Paris, with the Eiffel Tower outside our window, checking into the hotel at the same time as Chris "Boomer" Berman from ESPN, looking forward to some cheese and wine as the sun went down, and the wine in the room was... 2013 Feifs de Lagrange....
It was lovely! A "luncheon" claret!
Likewise, one of my best Latours ever was the 1991... That "washed out" vintage.
Also excellent that year were Lynch and Pichon Lalande.
I am a Bordeaux wine enthusiast.
That's why I roll my eyes sometimes at the would-be "experts" and over-analysis and hyper-criticism.
Look at Jacques today... I don't think Parker or anyone else thinks 1981 was anything special, but his Cos certainly was.
Tom and Gail brought a '79 Gruaud to my house a few years ago... an "okay" vintage per the critics, it was one of my wines of the year, a splendid effort.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:01 am

Well, the 2013 La Lagune is better than Napa Cabs that cost much more. BUT it is a terrible La Lagune.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:02 am

Now that I can agree with!

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:09 am

JimHow wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:21 pm Look forward to your opinion. I’m not as down on 2013 as Stefan. I actually liked the 2013 La Lagune, as well as the 2013 Le Fiefs de Lagrange.

Jim is the ultimate BWE. When he rate a 2009 Gazin 92 points, a wine that seems not to impress him, you have to accept that Jim will never rate any red Bordeaux below 89 points... but he drinks almost only vins de Bordeaux.

Small vintages have also their charms. After all, in 2015, Mr. Tesseron told us that the only problem with 2013 is that he did not had enough grapes to make more bottles! Small vintages drink better earlier so the best producer wines are always ok. the price don't follow, but that is a general problem any vintage.

Some light vintage Bordeaux I liked? 1993 Montrose, 1987 Mouton Rothschild and 1991 Yquem.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:23 am

This site IS Bordeaux Wine “Enthusiasts.”
Not “Pretentious Wine Snob Wannabees Who Feel They Need to Score Low Lest They Be Perceived as Less Than Pretentious.”
In other words... We welcome all input on our site because we are friendly and kind and the best wine web site in the internet.
But nobody should be surprised that there is a certain level of disappointment in even a 92 point wine from a supposedly “great” year, at least according to Robert M. Parker Jr., on a website called Bordeaux Wine ENTHUSIASTS.

That might be surprising on some other pretentious wine site out there, but there should be no surprise that the manager of Bordeaux Wine ENTHUSIASTS is, um, enthusiastic about the wines of... Bordeaux.

This does not seem like rocket science to me.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:22 pm

Guys
I got the impression that Jim rated the Gazin on potential not just on how it showed when tried recently. The average Cellartracker rating was in fact higher than 92. Happy to hear if my assumption is wrong though.

One point about 1979 and 1981.
I never thought either were poor vintages and in the 90s I drank plenty of them.
I have fond memories of the 79 Gruaud Larose and St Julien did well in that vintage with Ducru also being a top performer. In 1981 I think it did best in The Central Medoc and both St Julien and Pauillac were solid performers though there were also many good wines from other appellations. I was happy to drink them by the case load as they were both relatively inexpensive in the early to mid 90s.

Not sure if either vintage would be getting too old now but the 81’s in particular kept well for 20 odd years but I did not regret drinking both at around 12-15 years old. I also think I sometimes miss that style of Bordeaux but maybe I’m just getting old......
Cheers
Mark

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:13 pm

1979 and 1981 were both solid vintages in Bordeaux, but both got lost in the 1982 hype. I am particularly fond of 1979, which not only produced my Eureka wine, the Giscours, but also some seriously great wines from Margaux, and Pomerol and a few from Saint Emilion (Ausone, Cheval and Canon, but a Godawful Figeac).

I have less experience of 1981 which I skipped in the frenzy to buy 1982s, but have had a few since, and like what I have tasted, again particularly Pomerol. I mentioned Trotanoy, but L’Evangile was very fine, and Petrus pretty good, although there is some bottle variation, and even at its best, it isn’t a $1000+ wine. Especially when you can buy half a case of Trotanoy for the same cost.

Sent from my iPad

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:45 pm

I just looked at an auction that ends in two days. There have been 10 bids on a bottle of 1967 Mouton Baron Philippe, the high being $305! Maybe there are a bunch of bidders who do not know the difference between Mouton and D'Armailhac.

I hope the price goes up to $1000.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:20 pm

Reminds me of the joke about a server pouring d'Armailhac for Baron Philippe after he ordered Mouton-Rothschild.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:21 am

I thought it was Mouton Cadet, David.

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:47 am

Speaking of 1979 Bordeaux, it has been one of my favorite vintages for a long time. Margaux, Palmer and Giscours (of course) were fabulous in 1979. Lots of truly great 1979 Pomerols plus a few excellent St. Emilions. And then there all those fine 1979 Graves/Pessac wines like Haut Bailly and Haut Brion and La Mission Haut Brion. But I left out 3 of my favorites from 1979, Pichon Lalande, Gruaud Larose and Cantemerle.

Chris Bublitz

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:33 pm

Could be, Stefan. Are the grapes for Mouton Cadet grown immediately adjacent to those for the grand vin?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:54 pm

No. Mouton mostly buys grapes for Mouton Cadet.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:10 pm

DavidG wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:33 pm Could be, Stefan. Are the grapes for Mouton Cadet grown immediately adjacent to those for the grand vin?

Come on, man, how long have you been dealing with Bordeaux? Do you really think they'd be selling it for $10/bottle if the grapes touched a single clod of sacred Pauillac dirt? It would be three figure price minimum, no matter how crappy it was, if those grapes were grown anywhere within an hour's drive of the Grand Vin. They are probably bulk grapes from the generic Bordeaux AOC that would otherwise end up in jelly or something.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:01 pm

Hmm, guess the Socratic method is lost on this crowd. Grapes being grown immediately adjacent was the point of the joke, which is too filthy to repeat here.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:02 am

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:53 am Musigny...I believe wine bid allows 6mos storage without charge...wait a minute, your complaining about prices and u have a handle w/ the name of Musigny?

Not sure about the rules, only that without ant warning one January my credit card was charged for storage.

Yup, Musigny suggests I was rich, but the craziness over Musigny started this century. I was using Musigny as an aka long before that. To give some idea on how the mighty have fallen, my fantasy football moniker is BeauneCrusher.

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:17 pm

Great fuqn handle!!!

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:10 am

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:02 am
robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:53 am Musigny...I believe wine bid allows 6mos storage without charge...wait a minute, your complaining about prices and u have a handle w/ the name of Musigny?
Not sure about the rules, only that without ant warning one January my credit card was charged for storage.

Yup, Musigny suggests I was rich, but the craziness over Musigny started this century. I was using Musigny as an aka long before that. To give some idea on how the mighty have fallen, my fantasy football moniker is BeauneCrusher.

That is a great fantasy football name, Mark. I may have to borrow that at some point.

Looks like I went a little nuts on the 1987 L'eglise Clinet that I outbid you on Robert, birth year wine for me and it seemed cheap. But I'll be happy to bring it for you to try if you're coming up for the potential BWE DC 2021 in Sept or October!

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:02 pm

Guys
I watched an online auction yesterday - Winefield’s in Amsterdam- and I saw endless lots go for way above estimates and quite frankly what they are worth. This includes high prices for poor vintages such as 65, 69, 74, 84 and 87.

I am not surprised that hi prices can be had in Asia but I am quite surprised that this happens in Europe.

Seriously I am tempted to offload some of my own wine stash. Sheesh.