Do all 2016s taste the same?

[JimHow]

I've raised this question before.
2016 may possibly be the greatest Bordeaux vintage ever. And the most uninteresting and homogenous.
Not sure yet. Just asking. They have a Parkerized, internationalized, sameness to them.
They're great, precise... but perhaps robotic, boring.
They're like an Ivy League kid, perfectly trained in the fine arts and best public schools.
But wouldn't you rather hang out with the fun kids.

[JimHow]

Of the three vintages, I think I prefer 2014 to 2015 and 2016.
I just find it the most interesting vintage of the three.

[JoelD]

I've raised this question before.
2016 may possibly be the greatest Bordeaux vintage ever. And the most uninteresting and homogenous.
Not sure yet. Just asking. They have a Parkerized, internationalized, sameness to them.
They're great, precise... but perhaps robotic, boring.
They're like an Ivy League kid, perfectly trained in the fine arts and best public schools.
But wouldn't you rather hang out with the fun kids.

I don't think I've tried as many as you. But while I see your point, I don't think so. The ones that are actually approachable have some distinct differences to them, although there is a small part of each wine that does seem very similar. I believe that age will make the wines move farther apart.

[JimHow]

I dunno, I think they're "too" perfect.
Give me some stems and imperfections in there.
In 2016, Bordeaux may have achieved "perfection."
But is that a good thing?

[JoelD]

I dunno, I think they're "too" perfect.
Give me some stems and imperfections in there.
In 2016, Bordeaux may have achieved "perfection."
But is that a good thing?

I think I see your point. But I've had some that I thought were far from perfect. And they differed. I guess for me, lack of imperfections does not equal similar end results in a wine. I see them as two separate judging points. One of my biggest weaknesses is tasting and accessing young Bordeaux though. Although since thats the case, I would think I'd be more likely to agree with you. Maybe its just been hammered home to me how great the 2016's are/will be. Can't remember who that was

Good discussion point for the Friday zoom.

[Comte Flaneur]

I tried quite a few 2016s in verticals last year, and I see what you mean Jim. I generally preferred the 2009s and 2010s. But I think this is because aged five this is the worst possible time to be drinking the 2016 vintage.

[OrlandoRobert]

Jim, I am really curious to hear which wines you’ve recently had that compelled this opinion. I know you’ve been big on 2016 for quite sometime, but this could be the first “negative” comment that I have heard, not that I see all posts. I have seen your love for the Kwak Family wines and Corbin, and if those are your 2016 reference points, I think you are spot on. These are not my style of wine, though I will concede that the Corbin is rather tasty.

[JimHow]

It has been mostly left bankers, OB, most recently the 2016 Lilian Ladouys.
Maybe I'm nitpicking. It is certainly a great vintage, great ripeness and balance between tannins and fruit.

[Claudius2]

Guys
At this age it is likely that much of the individuality is hard to discern.
I have only tried lesser wines so far from 2016 such as Medocs, Haut Medocs and a few St Emilions of no great reputation but I would not say that they were standardised. Those tried did show a lot of structure and relatively Low acid - though it may be a little hidden at this stage.

2014 wines at this stage are more drinkable and those I’ve tried have more acid, some savoury characters and are dryer than 15 or 16. I also voted for 2014 in the simple poll some months back but for current drinking.

My experience with left bank wines in particular is that they can change almost at any time. I really don’t think any other wine does it like Bordeaux. I have often had wines from the same case at different stages of development and been quite amazed at how they can change. I mean to point where they are hardly recognisable. Development of Bordeaux sometimes reminds me of the human body in that ageing is rarely a linear process. Sometimes the development seems illogical.

Having said all that, I have found some sameness in 2015s as they are quite fruity and show less acid and savoury characters compared to 14 and have less tannins and complexity compared to 16, at least based on those I’ve tried, and in any case, I like the vintage but I don’t rate it as highly as 16.

[marcs]

Like Jim, I'm not convinced by the 2016s. With both 2015s and 2016s I have had this "spit-polished" unnaturally bland experience with some wines. It's not Parkerization because it's not over-extraction, it's kind of a weird smoothness, an over-engineered quality. I haven't had enough 2015s and 2016s to really say how prevalent it is, let along whether it will age out. But it definitely is leading me to question the "2016 greatest vintage EVER" hype. The quality of some of these wines seems to reflect less a particular vintage than a new technological style.

With that said, I've had a couple of wines that *don't* reflect this character but were well made classic Bordeaux from a good year -- the 2015 Gruaud Larose and 2016 Branaire Ducru stick out in my mind as that.

[Comte Flaneur]

I repeat:

Now is the worst possible time to drink this vintage.

[Nicklasss]

Like i already wrote on a similar topic 2 years ago : "About the comment that all 2016 look similar, well I guess that Bordeaux lovers here have enough experience to figure out that the wines are still very very young at 3 years old. It is like when you look at many newborns: they look quite similar, but with time they will become all different."

I would be happy to take any of your "great, precise... but perhaps robotic, boring, 2016 Left Bank red Bordeaux" at initial purchased price -50 % discount.

For me, it is a thrilling vintage, as most of the Left Bank wines have that pure and smooth blackberries/blackcurrants character that i love so much. That would be the only similarity between La Lagune, Capbern, Lilian Ladouys, Sociando Mallet... but the finals were all different, with very good tannins and freshness.

[rthomaspaull]

As far as I am concerned, no.

[Claudius2]

I repeat:

Now is the worst possible time to drink this vintage.

Agreed
I will start on 2005's next and have no intention of busting open any wooden boxes of 2016 any time soon.
The wines from 2016 that I have tried were lesser wines but I never thought they were overly standardised or similar.

[DavidG]

I agree with Ian, Mark, and Thomas. Nothing wrong with the 2016s that some time won’t straighten out.

[jal]

For me all Bordeaux made after 1998 tastes the same

[jckba]

Lol.

[DavidG]

For me all Bordeaux made after 1998 tastes the same

LOL.

For François all Bordeaux made after 1961 tastes the same.

[s*d*r]

For me all Bordeaux made after 1998 tastes the same

LOL.

For François all Bordeaux made after 1861 tastes the same.

FIFY.

[DavidG]

For me all Bordeaux made after 1998 tastes the same

LOL.

For François all Bordeaux made after 1861 tastes the same.

FIFY.

[Winona Chief]

No opinion from me. Not drinking any 2016 wines yet - I really didn’t buy very many (less than a case total). With a few exceptions, mostly drinking 1975 to 1998 Bordeaux.

Chris Bublitz

[Musigny 151]

I have tasted only a handful of 2016s, and they were either the ones I intended to or had already bought en primeur. So not really a cross section, but wines that were normally to my taste. Only the Figeac and Canon were slightly disappointing, and only because they had lost some of the tautness I used to enjoy in the young wines from these estates. They were glossier certainly, which goes back to Jim’s original point. But that being said, they had not closed down, and still retained enough complexity to enjoy, and we had no trouble finishing the bottles.

The left bank and other Right Bankers were fine. Lafleur and VCC were extremely good, and brilliant wines were made at Ducru and Pichon Lalande. And 2016 Mouton may be the finest young Bordeaux I have ever tasted.

Now it is a waiting game. Tasting them would be a waste of time, the risk of a closed wine at these prices is too high.

[Comte Flaneur]

I picked some Annonce De Belair-Monange 2016 in a sale today.

It is very well reviewed and I am curious to try one.

[Antoine]

Only bought the Chateau d'Issan at a good price... so if they all taste the same, I'll stick some Chateau Lafite Rothschild labels on it...

[JimHow]

Ha ha I have rescinded that comment after drinking a beautiful 2016 La Fleur de Bouard, Antoine, I do think they are still very young. The vintage is great!

[Comte Flaneur]

Curiosity killed the cat so I opened this second wine of Belair-Monange. Pretty impressive for a second wine. But oh so clinical. In a fast breathing glass, which aerates the wine. I wonder how this will evolve? I suspect very well, 14.5% abv which is punchy for a vintage which is supposed to be cooler than 2015. The Riesling is a producer to look out for.

[Blanquito]

“Clinical”... don’t really like the sound of that.

[Comte Flaneur]

I don’t think you would like it Patrick. It is so diametrically opposed to the old style Belairs. But I am always curious...