Rethinking the left bank classification

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Comte Flaneur
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Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Comte Flaneur »

My revised left bank rankings

In the last couple of days I have devoted some time to reflecting, and thinking about and analysing my left bank rankings, managing to dredge up a lot of notes in the process. I am fortunate to be able to draw on a fairly vast dataset of experience, it was just a question of pulling it all together and to think about how this maps into ranking them. I decided to rank wines according to the track record I have experienced with them, overweighting more recent decades.

First growths

Wine #1: Chateau Lafite - I won’t dwell long on Lafite suffice to say that based on considerable experience of vintages spanning 80 years there is no doubt in my mind it is foremost among the first growths. That was apparent at our historic vertical in 2018, and three separate experiences in the US, with BWE people in attendance in the late noughties. After Lafite it is quite close between the next four.

Wine #2 remains Margaux, wine #3 remains Latour, Mouton and Haut-Brion swap places as Mouton moves up to fourth and Haut-Brion slips to fifth. Mouton runs Latour very close for third based on my analysis of my experiences. In fact based on my experiences in the 40 years to 2000, they are neck and neck, and even though I have much more experience with Mouton over the last 20 years, and since 2008, Mouton has been superlative; and so has Latour by all accounts. Many respected professional commentators maintain that Latour not Lafite sets the benchmark, so my innately conservative instincts steer me to leave Latour in third place.

Mouton outperforms Haut-Brion based on my own recollections, but there is no question Haut-Brion should be a first in my opinion, as it consistently albeit marginally outperforms its La Mission sibling. Does La Mission deserve to be a first? Just about but it is a close call...where does one draw the line? I think the demarcation between first and second has an element of randomness. If LMHB, why not Palmer? Good question. Perhaps because Palmer consistently plays second fiddle to Ch. Margaux when you put them toe-to-toe? But that is where I drew the line. And I could easily have put La Mish in as a super second.

(Super) second growths

But I didn’t, and Ch. Palmer is a pretty easy shoe in as top of the second growth pile. I don’t think I need to elaborate...neither do I need to elaborate on why I think Leoville Lascases comes next...After all it shares that special Cabernet terroir with Latour...and Pichon Baron. Neither do I need to justify Pichon Lalande as being next in the pecking order: sensational in the ‘80s when the Baron was nowhere; at least not until 1988. After that the Baron reeled in the Comtessa but both of them had a disappointing decade in the 1990s, with the 1996 Comtessa being the only outstanding wine the two estates produced between 1991 and 1999. But Baron otherwise had a slightly less mediocre decade than Comtessa: however, both of them were well short of LLC and Palmer. Christian Seely catapulted Baron to being among the best super seconds from 2000. Baron famously consistently ‘won’ super second blind tastings. Ever since Seely arrived Comtessa has struggled to cling on to his coattails and really lagged the Baron in the noughties, but really started to pick itself up in the 2010 vintage to hang on to its lead in my ranking.

Now it gets interesting. Who comes next after Baron? Ducru would have a strong shout, and I have sympathy with the view that it is the ‘Lafite of St-Julien’. But I cannot put it next because I have had far too many disappointments beyond the disasters of 1986-90. Even the 1985, which can be sublime, is horribly unreliable. So is the 1982. And I have had so many flawed bottles of older vintages like the 1978. Ducru is ‘my kinda wine’ and I really want to love it even though Bruno flirted with the dark side from 2003, and his wines from 04, 06, 08 are pretty uninspiring...though his 2014 is flat out sensational, kudos BD for flagging.

Montrose does not come next either, because it was way off the pace until the 1989 vintage. The 1982 Montrose was a disaster, and the wines from the 70s and 80s were agricultural and prehistoric. There was a big step up with the 1989 but it is a bit over-rated in my view, and the 1990 suffers from brett. The 1996 is the stand out wine in the 1990s. Things generally improved in the 2000s, the 2003 is a contender for wotv, the chunky 2005 is great, the eight, nine and ten are great, but the estate only really realised its fully potential with the 2016, which is pretty much perfect. From here on Montrose is a strong horse...

Cos does not come next either after a very strong decade in the 1980s, as it was more mixed in the 90s and went on to the dark side in the 00s. But now it is coming back very strongly, like Montrose. These wines, however, have to take a bow to Lynch Bages, which fits in behind Baron in the pecking order. Not only has Lynch been consistent, it is a ‘no bullshit’ kind of wine. There is no danger of Lynch ever going over to the dark side. Think about it. Lynch was strong in the 1970s, a difficult decade, absolutely sensational in the 1980s, as good as any of Comtessa, Cos, Gruaud; pretty good overall in the nineties and the noughties - the 95 and 04 are sheer class - and really has kicked on since 2010. I am betting on Lynch being named one of the top five wines in the 2019 vintage. No question in my mind that this is a worthy super second.

I put Ducru, where I am long on, and optimistic on, the 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2009, 2010 and 2014 vintages, next and then Montrose, but I am thinking that maybe Cos is more deserving given how good it was in the 1980s, when Montrose was nowhere. But such a shame what Jean-Guillaume Prats did to sully his dad’s legacy. I have not tried the 2009 Cos but I have heard horror stories and the 2005 really set the alarm bells ringing when Montrose made such a great trad chunky wine in that year. The last super second is Leoville Barton. The inflection point for this estate was 1999. Otherwise previous to that there were a few notable wines: the 1978 (lovely old church pew/mouse droppings claret), the 1985, the 1988 (the quintessence of claret?), the 1989, the 1990 (a brilliant pair) and the 1994. The consistency and brilliance, not to mention the vfm, of this estate in the last 22 years puts it into the super second category.

BB14506C-2C81-49E6-AA4E-F8A47DE84B96.png
Other seconds

I moved Gruaud Larose to the top of this second growth subset because its performance in the 1970s and 1980s puts to shame such resurgent estates like SHL and Haut-Bailly, which wallowed in mediocrity at the time and only got their acts together in the early 2000s. Rauzan Segla comes next on the back of a very strong performance in the 1980s and a proper comeback which started in earnest in the 2010 vintage. Pontet Canet comes third in this category; the inflection came in 1994, and the big step up around 2000. It is a controversial estate still with its creations bordering on being too modern, but I think all told this estate is making great wine. The 2019 is supposed to be sensational; I have not tried it, but I bought it on spec.

Maybe will comment on the 3rds and 4ths in due course.

17C8490F-B4FC-40B7-BB28-6F3B2F16A248.png
Last edited by Comte Flaneur on Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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OrlandoRobert
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by OrlandoRobert »

Wow. Phenomenal analysis. Thanks for sharing.
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Blanquito
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Blanquito »

Love it. Agree almost across the board.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by JimHow »

Chateau Lafite Rothschild is the greatest wine in the world. I have 10 bottles left, I'm not selling them, damn it.
I will drink them only in the presence of BWEers who come to Maine.

Chateau Margaux is likewise my number 2. Margaux is astounding.

Great stuff, Comte Flaneur, even if I do not agree with you "across the board." I think I may have underrated Haut Bailly a notch or two in my ranking, and I think you may have as well.
Lynch ahead of Montrose, Ducru, and Cos... we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm somewhat surprised at all the angst about Cos. That 2002 I had last year was stunning. I mean, is there a difference in the terroir from Lafite to Cos across the street?
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Blanquito »

Oh, I have some (inevitable but mostly minor) differences here and there. For example, I would probably put Haut Brion 3rd behind Lafite and Margaux but that’s only because I love the Graves style and I’ve had too many underperforming bottles of Latour. And I’d demote some wines I find too modern, but otherwise I think this is terrific job and balances the numerous competing requirements of such a classification.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by JoelD »

Well done Sir. I really like that you have them totally ranked. Some of those were clearly tough decisions. I agree with Jim about Haut Bailly, but I still need to try some older vintages, hopefully they are at least decent.

Does this list in any way factor in QPR?
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Blanquito »

I haven’t had many old vintages of Haut Bailly, but the 1979 has been fantastic for a long time and was still going strong the last time I had it a few years ago.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

As it is a lot of work (though basically quite simple) I am going to post the results of combining Grundeken at equal weights with my 2002-14 (excl. 2013) study {all scores by Robert Parker except 2014 by Neal Martin) "bit by bit". I have very limited experience with all but a few chateaux, but I only have one major disagreement with Parker's scores, concerning Gruaud Larose in the study period. For now here are the average scores for the 2 periods for wines that average 93.0 combined (the average of Grundeken''s 92.5 and the stiudy period's 93.5, one point being added to the latter because the average rounded Wine Advocate Vintage Rating was 2 points higher):
"First Growths" in descending order

Lafite-Rothschiild 95.15
Latour 94.9
Haut Brion and Margaux 94.65
Leoville Las Cases 94.45
La Mission Haut Brion 93.5
Mouton-Rothschild 93.4

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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

Here is the combined list of "second growths" (miinimum score 90,5), in descending order:


Cos D'Estournel 92.75
Montrose 92.55
Ducru Beaucaillou 92.35
Palmer 92.05
Pichon Lalande 92.0
Leoville Poyferre and Pape Clement 91.8
Pichon Baron 91.7
Pontet Canet 91.6
Leoville Barton 91.45
Lynch Bages 91.15
Smith Haut Lafitte 91.1
Haut-Bailly 90.95
Grand-Puy-Lacoste 90.5


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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Blanquito wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am I haven’t had many old vintages of Haut Bailly, but the 1979 has been fantastic for a long time and was still going strong the last time I had it a few years ago.
Actually I was too harsh on Haut-Bailly. I have tasted quite a few older uninspiring examples but the 1966 we had a Denver was fantastic. Who brought it?
Joel - qpr was not a consideration.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by OrlandoRobert »

Comte Flaneur wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:57 am
Blanquito wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am I haven’t had many old vintages of Haut Bailly, but the 1979 has been fantastic for a long time and was still going strong the last time I had it a few years ago.
Actually I was too harsh on Haut-Bailly. I have tasted quite a few older uninspiring examples but the 1966 we had a Denver was fantastic. Who brought it?
Joel - qpr was not a consideration.
A 1947 that I had at Bern’s was stunning. Was told that the 1934 was even better, and when I went back, it was all gone, sigh. Both under $500 on that list. Those were the days not so very long ago . . . .
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Nicklasss »

Interesting very personal analysis Comte. It have probably 80-85 % similarity with what I would have for classification.

My main comment: from Gruaud Larose to Haut-Bailly, it is like you can't decide if these 5 Châteaux should classified 2nd or 3rd, so put them in a "in between 2nd and 3rd Growth" caregory.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Claudius2 »

Ian
There are quite a few wines in the original 1855 classification that you have excluded.
However you may be planning a fifth growth list already so please see this as an extension.
Some of the existing wines in the 1855 classification I agree do not deserve to be classed growths but there are several that I think should be at least a 5th growth, viz:

Ferrière
Dauzac
Cos Labory (I’ve drunk both the 09 and 10 in the last year and both were very good)
Camensac (okay this one is on notice but can just make it based on 09 vintage)
Marquis d’Alseme Becker (another marginal call but it is improving)
Lafon Rochet
Durfort Viviens (surprised it isn’t rated at least a 4th)
Lagrange (4th in my book)
Branaire-Ducru (at least 4th)
Grand Puy Ducasse
Haut Bages Liberal

I’d upgrade a few wines a notch notably Malescot St E, Prieure’ Lichine and St Pierre.

I’d also include a few second wines notably Les Forts de Latour and Carruades Lafite and whilst not exactly a second, Clos Du Marquis is worthy.

Cheers
Mark
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

Herewith is a combined list of "third growths" (minimum score 88.5) in descending order:



Saint Pierre 90.35
Duhart Milon 90.25
Sociando Mallet 90.15
Les Forts de Latour and Rauzan Segla 90.1
Calon Segur 90.05
Branaire Ducru 89.85
Clerc Milon 89.8
Malescot-Saint-Exupery 89.65
Gruaud Larose 89.5 (the only major point of disagreement I have with Parker/Martin: I would say 90.5 "second growth" as
I would score the study period for this wine at 91.3 instead of 89.3)
Clos du Marquis 89.25
Les Carmes Haut Brion 89.2
La Lagune 89.0
Domaine de Chevalier and Bahans/Clarence de Haut Brion 88.95
Lagrange 88.9
D'Armailhac 88.8
Talbot 88.65
La Louviere 88.55
Kirwan 88.53
Beychevelle 88.5


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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

Herewith is a combined list of "fourth growths" (minimum score 87.0) in descending order:



D'Issan 88.45
Brane Cantenac 88.4
De Fieuzal and Langoa Barton 88.35
Du Tertre and Gloria 88.25
Lafon Rochet 88.2
Haut-Bages-Liberal 88.15

Giscours 88.05
Grand -Puy-Ducasse and Prieure Lichine 87.95
Du Tertre 87.9
Haut-Batailley and Haut-Marbuzet 87.7
Cantemerle and Carbonnieux 87.55
Potensac 87.15
Phelan Segur 87.1
Hortevie 87.0


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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

Herewith is a combined list of "fifth growths" (minimum score 85.5) in descending order:



D'Angludet 86.9
Siran 86.4
Meyney 86.3
Batailley and Les Ormes-de-Pez 86.25

(Marquis-de-Terme just misses at 85.45)


I hope that's all. rthomaspaull
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

I do realize that many do not share the tastes of Robert Parker, though he was very influential and was followed by many. I have only had a tiny fraction of the wines he has tasted, but the average of our scores for these is very similar. The lists I have posted were all his, except for 2014 by Neal Martin. Much the biggest difference I have with the lists is the study period's score for Gruaud Larose, with which I do have some familiarity. I would score it 2 points higher than the Parker/Martin figure, barely making it a "second growth." I sometimes feel Talbot deserved a slightly higher score. On the other hand I love the 2010 Cantemerle, and Parker and I gave it identical scores of 94.5 (sometimes to me it is noticeably better on the second
night) . We each also gave the 2012 Rauzan-Segla a 94.5 . Best wishes to all, rthomaspaull
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by Dandersson »

Hi Ian,
Thank you very impressive analysis and very appreciated and inspirational. Many of those wine are way above my price range. I am somewhat surprised that you would not have Ch Lagrange in the ranking, from my very limited experience it comes a lot higher than Ch Gloria.
Thank you! Great post!

Best, Dan
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by JoelD »

Comte Flaneur wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:57 am
Blanquito wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:51 am I haven’t had many old vintages of Haut Bailly, but the 1979 has been fantastic for a long time and was still going strong the last time I had it a few years ago.
Actually I was too harsh on Haut-Bailly. I have tasted quite a few older uninspiring examples but the 1966 we had a Denver was fantastic. Who brought it?
Joel - qpr was not a consideration.
Sometime down the road, it might be an interesting task to re-rank based on Avg cost current price across the vintages that are taken into account. I know that I always factor these things, and thats why I own very few first growths. (Super seconds from great vintages tend to be the same price or cheaper these days.)

Happy to put in the work with the pricing through CT and auction's if this is something that you'd be interested in doing Ian.
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Re: Rethinking the left bank classification

Post by rthomaspaull »

I think Comte Flaneur, who has great experience with many chateaux that I have seldom if ever tasted, has done a great job with this subject. I think his version is much more likely than Parker's to appeal to the majority of BWE members. As I have tasted few of the same wines as Comte Flaneur, and several of the same wines as Parker, I am giving the latter's scores. I feel fortunate in liking several (though not all) styles of left bank red Bordeaux. I have corrected a few of the details in my posts. rthomaspaull
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