The hunt for excellent value in Bordeaux

[Dandersson]

This weekend I am going to drink two Bordeaux wines from Medoc 2016. I got this idea last week, to start drinking and reporting my experience in the hunt for affordable good/great Bordeaux. So here we go. Chateau La Cardonne 2016 Medoc, 50% Merlot, 45% Cabernet Sauvignon and 5% Cab Franc. Dark fruit and oak on the nose. First sip dark fruit, clear Medoc style, restrained firm, clear 2016 style. But not too closed down. Black berries and currants supported by nice oak/smoke taste. Medium bodied, pure fruit with good balance, nice acidity backed up by a hearty tannic structure. This is a very good wine indeed.

Best, Dan

[Dandersson]

Ch Larose Trintaudon 2016, Haut Medoc, 60% Cabernet Sauvignon, 40% Merlot. More restrained on the nose giving up hints of fruit and oak. Did I hear it growl at me for opening it up? First taste: Dark restrained fruit (black berries and Cassis), some oak, more tannic structure, the fruit in there under the the tannic coat. Good acidity to match, some oak. I really think it was a growl, this feels like a smaller wine at the moment, due to the cloak of tannins. Will be exciting to see how it develops, very good stuff here. But the 2015 was way more welcoming.

Best, Dan

[Blanquito]

A worthy and time honored enterprise, Dan. Definitely looking forward to your notes and those (hopefully) from others as well.

[Dandersson]

Thank you Blanquito.
As the evening evolves so do these wines. The LT opens up, with just a couple of hours. Very tasty dark pure fruit, very good grip. This is close to the 2015 but different, it may actually be better than the 15 is 2-3 years.
La Cardonne, a very good Medoc, developing some nice tobacco flavors.
These are two very good wines, both for me scores about 87-88+, which are high scores in the way I am trying to use the 100p scale.
I paid about $22 for the Cardonne and about $25 for the LT. People say Bordeaux is expensive, I would argue there is great value in these wines.
Bordeaux delivers!
Will be back with day two for these wines tomorrow!
Thank you!

Best, Dan

[AKR]

Great to hear about those estates, although I've had ill luck with La Cardonne across a couple of years.

[JoelD]

Dan, where in MD do you live? We'll have to get together sometime with some of the other DC crew.

I spend a lot of time on this subject, some of the ones most mentioned on this thread are amazing values. Meyney, Capbern, Lillian Ladyous, La Dame De Montrose. 2014 and 2016 for sure. Siran, Moulin Riche, Smith Haut Petite.

For my palate, depending on what kind of deals you're getting, going up just a level to the 30-40 range, there are some serious gems. I have yet to find one that sells for sub 25 consistently. Looking forward to future reporting on this though.

[JimHow]

Danny, I think you nailed it on the 15 and 16 LTs.
I like them both, but they are definitely different, like the vintages.

[Nicklasss]

Nice to know, and i will look for La Cardonne as the Larose Trintaudon left me not satisfyed.

[Dandersson]

JoelD, I live close enough to DC to join an event. And yes Lilian Ladouys is one of my favorite QPRs. Not much more and for me it is one of my favorites, such a nice chateau also with great people. Visited it 2019.

Arv, you might want to try a bottle of 16. Or if you visit DC area we can have one together. Not as great as some of the classified growth but very enjoyable.

Jim, yes the 16 is not as great as the 15 at the moment but there is a potential for it to really show its quality in a couple of years. My limited experience is that some of the 16s now are rather closed but I had a great bottle and I believe it will be very good in a couple of years. I prefer 16 over 14 over 15. in general but very limited to the lower priced wines.

Nic, yes Cardonne is very good right now, no need to wait, also will probably evolve nicely for at least 5years, but I don't have time for that right now

[Dandersson]

Also I maybe should mention that the wine that inspired me to start reporting on this was a very good bottle of Ch Chantegrive 16 Graves, that I had last weekend. Also a classic flavor of Bordeaux for so few $.
I always loved Bordeaux and Rhone wines, now I feel you get a lot better wines in this price range from Bordeaux.

[Racer Chris]

I have a few left of each 2009 and 2010 La Cardonne. The '09 is more backward than one would expect from that vintage. I recently extended my drinking window to see when/if it will turn around. The '15 and '16 are more modern styling. I only bought a bottle of each.

I agree with your assessment of the 2016 Larose-Trintaudon. It seems lighter in weight at the moment but that's a bit of an illusion.
I have a second bottle (from my first case) of '16 L-T on deck to help me decide how much more I should buy.
The '09 L-T I drank a couple weeks ago was very nice. Wish I had more than one left.
I have a good number of '10s and '11s remaining though.

[stefan]

The late Setab (Dennis Bates) was a fan of La Cardonne. Many here, including myself, buy Larose Trintaudon regularly. Is widely available and has a great QPR.

[Dandersson]

Chris, yes I am looking forward to try them tonight to see how they have developed.

Stefan, The LT (2015) I stumbled over at one of the wine stores, and I read about it here, it was so good that I had been waiting for the 2016. Someone recommended the La Cardonne, half a year ago or so, might have been Chris.
This place is full of great knowledge and inspiration. A nice, friendly, and fun forum. So happy I found my way back here during the pandemic. Setab sounds familiar, was he a member of the old BWE (I mean the old platform, pre 2009)? Sorry to hear he has left us.

[stefan]

Yes, Setab was on the old forum, D. IIRC he was at the first BWE convention in Chicago.

[Dandersson]

In the early days. I was still in Uppsala, Sweden. I found this forum and learned so much.
Now, still learning and loving it. Wish to meet up with you, as time goes by.
So, the Cardonne is doing great, seems like it is at peak? I think that the LT 16 has more to show.
We will have to wait and see?
Best, Dan

[JCNorthway]

Yes, Setab (Dennis) was at the first convention in Chicago in 2001.

[JimHow]

... and ‘02 in Napa, and ‘03 in NYC.
I can’t remember if he was back in Chicago ‘04.
He was one of the original assistant managers, a true BWE hall of famer.

[Dandersson]

Ch Pierre the Montignac Medoc 2018 and Ch Peyrabon Haut Medoc 2018 are this weekends wine.
Both wines have the explosive dark fruit of the vintage. Good structure plenty of acid and tannic backbone. Some oak character. Peyrabon feels a tad hot but I can deal with it. They are not shut down yet, not sure they will. They drink well now but will improve with age.
I prefer Pierre over Peyrabon but not buy much. Ch Pierre 87-88p, Ch Peyrabon 86-87p. Two very good wines!

Best, Dan

[Racer Chris]

I'm waiting for another sale at TW to pick up a bunch of the PdM. Hopefully I can get it for around $17.
Lately I've consumed some '12 & '15 Haut Medocs and St. Estephe 2018s in the search for value wines.
2018s: Meyney, La Dame de Montrose, Ormes de Pez. All at 14.5% abv, and it shows right now. I like the Ormes best for its greater tannic grip and bitter edge. I expect all three will show much better in 7-8 years, but the LDdM went down too easy already. I'm a little reluctant to buy much of these right now, partly because I think they're overpriced and partly because I prefer wines that are below 14%. 2019 release is right around the corner which may resolve both my problems with 2018.
Older vintages: '12 Haut Medoc de Giscours, '15 Fontesteau, '15 Paloumey. I really like that third wine of that third growth Margaux in 2012. I like both the 2015s as well. The Paloumey leans a little more modern than the other two, but all three were enjoyed by my wife and she is picky about Bordeaux. I never tell her the cost/value in advance, but she usually nails it on her own. I can't point to any faults and she didn't say anything except to ask for a repour. All represent good value at mid $20s, and I'll be looking to buy a few more of each.
I have some other value wines waiting to be opened: 2015 Tour de Mons at a slightly higher price point, 2016 Peyrabon - I drank a bottle a year ago but didn't record a note. I don't expect much but thought a second look was worth it at about $20.
I also added more 2015 Ch. Lalande (St. Julien) to my cellar, having already consumed 4 by now. I've bought just over a case and a half in 4 purchases over the past year. I consider it a very good value at mid $20s.

[Dandersson]

Yes PdM is clearly worth the $17 I paid. The Ormes is a great value but a bit more expensive, I have a bottle of the 18 but may buy more. The 16 Peyrabon was good but likely will be better with some age. I have been looking at Lalande, will have to try that in the future.
I am still developing my buying strategy, prices of 19s were great, hoping that 2020 will not be much higher. With 14-16 still on the market, 17 for early drinking if price is right, 18s also on the market with prices in some cases attractive. A lot to think about.

[AKR]

There are also lots of smaller right bank satellite wines that are quite good. Most of the names mentioned above are (generalizing) 40% merlot; typical cepage for their cross river competition would be 70% merlot. Rather than suggesting names, I would just check out the major merchants in the Northeast who traffic in Bordeaux - Sherry Lehman, Zachys, Morrells, MacArthurs etc. They do cost a little more, but on the lower end their selection tends to be thoughtful and driven by taste, rather than what commercial terms the Trones can squeeze on direct importation.

[Dandersson]

Well Arv, I am a Cab kind of a guy. Favorite AOC are Pauillac and St Julien, so when the merlot increase my enjoyment generally decrease.

Best, Dan

[marcs]

If you want great value in Bordeaux look for aged, well stored lower end wines from good producers. The transformation that Bordeaux can do with age makes an older wine in the zone more interesting and enjoyable than a young wine at five times the price. The 2000 Lanessan at $35/botte was an unbelievable deal for me this year.

[Racer Chris]

I just bought another half-dozen 2006 Lilian Ladouys, and a few more 2008 Ormes de Pez.

[OrlandoRobert]

If you want great value in Bordeaux look for aged, well stored lower end wines from good producers. The transformation that Bordeaux can do with age makes an older wine in the zone more interesting and enjoyable than a young wine at five times the price. The 2000 Lanessan at $35/botte was an unbelievable deal for me this year.

Yup, that 2000 is quite a special QPR. I also like the 2001, 1999 and, of course, the 2005.

The 09 and 14 are worthy case purchases as well. I just grabbed another case last night of the 14 for $20 per from Millesima. They had Mags and 3L as well.

[Dandersson]

Yes, Marcs and Robert, I will be on the look out for older vintages, I think I am in a bit of a disadvantage due to my small purchases, cases are not really an option for me. I consume too few bottles for those volumes, as I also need to focus on greater exposure to more of the wonderful wines from Bordeaux, in order to gain more experience. It is a long project with small steps. But I am very happy that the steps are in the right direction nowadays.

Thank you!

Best, Dan

[OrlandoRobert]

If you want great value in Bordeaux look for aged, well stored lower end wines from good producers. The transformation that Bordeaux can do with age makes an older wine in the zone more interesting and enjoyable than a young wine at five times the price. The 2000 Lanessan at $35/botte was an unbelievable deal for me this year.

Ha, you planted the seed in my mind, just popped another tonight. God I love this stuff, so classic, so quaffable. Has a sweaty saddle leather note that I find so intoxicating. Hard to imagine many better QPRs, the 1986 Meyney being another.