Second wine conundrum

[jckba]

Château Margaux produces only one white wine and it is called Pavillon Blanc which follows a similar naming convention as its red second wine called Pavillon Rouge; so does that make it a first wine or a second? Food for thought.

2016 Pavillon Blanc and a sashimi nest

[Racer Chris]

Its obvious that the owners don't want it to be considered a first growth white wine.

[jal]

How was it, Jean Christophe? I think the classification should come from you.

[jckba]

How was it, Jean Christophe? I think the classification should come from you.

Definitely an upper echelon Bdx Blanc in my book as it had wonderful aromatics with lemon, white lilac and green apple notes that led to a fresh, complex lemon and stone fruited palate with a long mineral tinged finish. 94

[jal]

Sounds wonderful, I think from your description, it could compare favorably with a Haut Brion Blanc. Does anyone out there have any experience tasting the two?

[Blanquito]

I am a big fan of Bordeaux Blanc. My impression is that these wines are under-appreciated as a group (but not undervalued as they can be pricey), not sure why.

[AKR]

they are "under appreciateted" because they don't taste great, IMO

on Sunday I had a $10 fume blanc (CA's made up name for oak aged sauv blanc) and it was richer, smokier than most of the white graves i've tried.

a few of the Dubordieu stable are ok though

i pulled an 2010 blanc Sauternes from the cellar recently, i don't think i've had older expressions of those.

[Nicklasss]

Dry blanc wines of Bordeaux are good, no problem with that.

But the problem is that dry blanc wines from Alsace, Germany, Sancerre/Pouilly-Fumé, Muscadet, Galice in Spain, Alto Adige in Italy, and finally Bourgogne (Chablis to Pouilly-Fuissé) are just better.

They lack something quite important to me in dry white wines : soil terroir taste. Yes for oak tones, yes for fruit, yes for sauvignon aromas/taste or sémillon or muscadelle, but not that much typicity from the soil. Pauillac taste graphite (soil), Saint-Julien some mineral things too (soil), Saint Émilion can be quite calcareous (soil), Pomerol something like argile tannins with iron (soil), and all the dry white wines above too have something in them that have been stolen from the soil (shell minerals, limestone, mountains minerals, chalk). Dry white wines of Bordeaux? Mix of of different oak level/much or less ripe grape, not that much real soil influence.

[AKR]

You should try the Txakoli from the Basque part of Spain too. sort of like Kabinetts.

[Claudius2]

Guys
The Pavillon Blanc was actually known as Chateau Margaux Blanc until 1920.
So in 2015, the Chateau's MD Paul Pontaillier argued that the estate should make a first white wine as per pre-1920.
Not sure if anyone can recall why it was relegated to Pavillon a century ago.
I got the impression however that his intention was to only call the very best white Ch MB and then leave the remainder (most of it) as Pavillon.
Pontaillier clearly is making an effort to raise its quality to compete directly with HBB.

Whether it will happen is conjectural.
He would need to get approval from the INAO which is hardly known for fast decision making.
Will it happen? Well who can tell.

I have never tried the wine and never see it at tastings but I have tried Haut Brion Blanc on a handful of occasions but not for some years.
Most white Bordeaux simply does not interest me. I have occasionally bought a few whites such as SHL Blanc and Dom de Chevalier Blanc, but more as an experiment. As for the sea of whites from Entre de Mers, Graves etc, I see no reason to buy them when I am not a lover of Sav Blanc in any case (though am partial to well aged Hunter Semillon such as McWilliams Mt Pleasant Lovedale).

Haut Brion Blanc is a much more complex wine than any other white Bdx I have tried with a nose and palate of orange/mandarin, honey, vanilla, fresh flowers and toast. Don't know why but I have never found that overt mandarin and honey character in other white Bordeaux. The handful of bottles I have drunk came from auctions and that was before the prices escalated. So unless I can bag it at a reasonable price, I am (happily) sticking to white Burgundy and my favourite Australian whites.

cheers
Mark

[jal]

Tragically, Paul Pontallier passed away in March 2016. This wine was made in the first vintage after his premature passing.

Haut Brion Blanc has a lanolin character that I find weird, I cannot get past it.

[Blanquito]

I get lanolin on many bordeaux Blanc, which I dig if it’s a nuance not a headline.

[AKR]

I remember having a 79 Laville Haut Brion (now gone as a label, relabeled as LMHB blanc now) and it was like beeswax liquefied. Pappadoc liked that, but not my thing.

[Blanquito]

Price is certainly an issue with Bordeaux Blanc, many are too expensive compared to other great white wines, including the ones Nic lists. But in the sub-$50, there are some terrific Blanc from Bordeaux, especially Carbonnieux (which is more like $30-$35 these days). Of course, if you don’t like the style, price isn’t a factor.

[s*d*r]

I like Bordeaux Blanc and find it usually falls into three categories: 1) very light and floral, usually very modestly priced, to drink ASAP 2) medium weight, tropical fruity, medium price 3) medium body, minerally, sea shell and candle waxy, high price, demands age to show its best.

Since they are so different in style, you might like some but not others independent of cost. It’s usually the Sémillon that gives body and a sense of sucrosity, which can be a positive or a negative. I like Larriivet Haut-Brion Blanc in the second category. In the third category Domaine de Chevalier Blanc gives me most of what I want. Old Laville Haut-Brion ages magnificently but old Haut-Brion Blanc is a minefield with too many off bottles.

[Blanquito]

Great summary, Stu. My go-to in your #2 category is Malartic-Lagraviere (as Tom can attest), and DDC is my top Bordeaux Blanc as it is for many.

[hautbrionlover]

I have enjoyed a number of Bordeaux blancs, mostly from Pessac-Leognan.
I have bought Carbonnieux blanc in a number of vintages.
My favorite so far, though, by far, is Pape Clement blanc.