Buying 2020 futures is hard to justify.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Fri May 21, 2021 12:02 pm

There are very few times buying futures makes sense financially. I usually buy sizes I can’t usually find in the marketplace, half bottles and magnums. 2019 actually did make sense, prices were way down, and the vintage was pretty good.

To be fair, the Bordelais have been pretty good so far about keeping prices down in 2020 to an increase of only 10%. The problem for them is the euro is strong, so that is another 10%. There is some demand; Cheval Blanc came out early and sold out immediately. But Leoville Barton seemed expensive, especially with 2019 at a lower prices still available.

My strategy is to avoid the vintage, with the exception of VCC.

Instead, I will do some minor backfilling starting with Palmer 2019 which I bought from Zachys at $219. My guess is the new vintage will come in around $275. There are others, but Palmer came out early last year, and the early offers were a lot lower comparatively than the later ones.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri May 21, 2021 1:36 pm

Musigny
The Euro is too strong at the moment for me.
When I bought the 2019 EP this time last year, the SGD was 0.67 Euro and is now about 0.61 so I’m also facing the same issue.
I may just buy one case in order to have something from 2020 hopefully to try when mature. But I won’t be too greedy this time.
Cheers
Mark

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Fri May 21, 2021 7:19 pm

I agree that some of the wines seems steep like LB up about 27% from 19. But since I am in a building phase I will buy 2020 but focus on some of the cheaper wines, Langoa is up like 7%.
Leoville Barton and Lynch Bages is normally out of range for me, but at least I got some of them from 19. That I can enjoy 2035-2050.

Best, Dan

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri May 21, 2021 8:30 pm

Nothing really to see here (yet) this side of the pond. (Which is a relief).

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat May 22, 2021 7:30 am

I'm past tasting 300 wines and hope to finish tasting the remaining ones at the end of May. Only wait for wines from D.d.Chevalier and Leoville Las Cases to arrive at the beginning of June. Then I hope to finish my report approximately 2 weeks after.

I think I'll not be buying 2020, except few bottles of La Lagune, Carmes Haut Brion and Petit Village.

My impressions until now (21st May 2021):

Generally, Left Bank 2020 lacks some flair and tannins aren't that elastic and refined, like in 2018. There is a certain touch of dryness on the palate in several wines, especially in Pauillac and St.Estephe. But there are, of course, some exceptions, and they are mostly to be found in Margaux commune, which produced a string of delicious wines.

This (firm tannins and dryness) isn't just the case of Carmes Haut Brion, which is a drop-dead gorgeous wine, beautifully scented and sophisticated. Probably the best wine of the vintage for me. Pessac-Leognans have done well in 2020.

Imho, Right Bank 2020 is a blend of 2018 and 2019, with some properties excelling a bit and some a bit underperforming. St.Emilions lead the vintage quality-wise.

Pomerols are a bit different in 2020, some very elegant and some having firm tannins, reminding me of the 2005/2010 tannic structure. However, Lalande de Pomerols are better in 2020 than in 2018!

White dry and sweet wines are similar to 2018 but have a better acidity.

However, the final verdict is first valid when the 2020 vintage is in the bottle.

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Sat May 22, 2021 8:20 am

Thanks for the pre report! Easy pass for me.

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Sat May 22, 2021 11:25 am

Thank you for your input Izak, I am looking forward to reading about 2020 on your website when you are done.
Best, Dan

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Nice summary, Izak, sounds like a pass for me, mostly made easier by my advancing age.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat May 22, 2021 12:26 pm

Other than Stefan and Nickl’ass

, arent we all too old for 2020 Bordeaux?!?

At 55, I’m out of the futures game.

I guess in some respects, using my 81.5 year old dad as a reference point, maybe I should grab some.

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Sat May 22, 2021 12:36 pm

Just 55, that doesn't sound old at all, Some of the 2020 would start being ready to taste when you retire.. But seeing Izak's description above I am considering to buy more of the 2019.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat May 22, 2021 1:04 pm

Well I passed 55 some years ago but if Carmes HB is that good I may just buy a case of that wine EP and pass on others.

RPCV · Post by **RPCV** » Sat May 22, 2021 1:40 pm

greatbxfreak wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 7:30 am I'm past tasting 300 wines and hope to finish tasting the remaining ones at the end of May. Only wait for wines from D.d.Chevalier and Leoville Las Cases to arrive at the beginning of June. Then I hope to finish my report approximately 2 weeks after.

I think I'll not be buying 2020, except few bottles of La Lagune, Carmes Haut Brion and Petit Village.

My impressions until now (21st May 2021):

Generally, Left Bank 2020 lacks some flair and tannins aren't that elastic and refined, like in 2018. There is a certain touch of dryness on the palate in several wines, especially in Pauillac and St.Estephe. But there are, of course, some exceptions, and they are mostly to be found in Margaux commune, which produced a string of delicious wines.

This (firm tannins and dryness) isn't just the case of Carmes Haut Brion, which is a drop-dead gorgeous wine, beautifully scented and sophisticated. Probably the best wine of the vintage for me. Pessac-Leognans have done well in 2020.

Imho, Right Bank 2020 is a blend of 2018 and 2019, with some properties excelling a bit and some a bit underperforming. St.Emilions lead the vintage quality-wise.

Pomerols are a bit different in 2020, some very elegant and some having firm tannins, reminding me of the 2005/2010 tannic structure. However, Lalande de Pomerols are better in 2020 than in 2018!

White dry and sweet wines are similar to 2018 but have a better acidity.

However, the final verdict is first valid when the 2020 vintage is in the bottle.

Hello Izak,

Thank you for your perspective. I have always enjoyed your vintage reports and would like to ask you a question. Has there been a run of consecutive Bordeaux vintages of quality and depth like 2014 to 2020 in prior years?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat May 22, 2021 2:50 pm

Thanks GreatBxFreak for the early report. Much appreciated.

I will limit myself with the 2020, and won't buy as much as 2018 or 2019. But i should buy like a case for fun.

And Jim, from Izak description, can 2020 be an improved 2002?

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Sat May 22, 2021 3:13 pm

55 years old and stopping primeurs? I was 66 last year...and bought 4 half bottles cases and 3 Canons... half bottles should be all right in 12 years and the Canon can be decanted...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 22, 2021 3:20 pm

That's the spirit Antoine!
Seriously, I think Bordeaux at age 12-15 is a good spot.
The true to form 2012 Domaine de Chevalier last night was in a good place age wise.

Nicola, I'm not sure there will ever be another 2002 in our lifetimes.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat May 22, 2021 9:03 pm

Niclasss,

No comparison between 2002 and 2020!

2020 is much, much better. Despite my slight reservation about some districts/communes, it's a great vintage and is close to being exceptional.

2002 was a Cabernet Sauvignon year.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Sun May 23, 2021 7:30 pm

Too much good Bordeaux on the market. Not cheap if not expensive. Seems to be a very good but not a great vintage. Pretty sure I will be able to buy almost any wine in ten years close to the futures prices today.

Nothing about this vintage suggests rushing and buying in quantity

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun May 23, 2021 9:10 pm

Agreed.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Mon May 24, 2021 7:20 am

Musigny 151 and Comte Flaneur,

I agree. Maybe I should change "exceptional" to "excellent".

I don't feel the desire to buy a lot of this vintage. Max. 6 bottles including my favourites like f.i. La Lagune and Carmes Haut Brion. I have similar wines in other vintages.

Have plenty of 2018 and 2019 and must start drinking my wine cellar up.

I'm 75 years old, and my wine cellar is more than 600 bottles right now.

Musigny 151,

Despite my request, VCC didn't send me a sample of 2020, neither they did with 2018 and 2019. Every time I visit this property, I'm only allowed to taste the new vintage. So I'm not able to provide you with the info on how this wine tasted in 2020. But I'm sure Jeff Leve has something and not in few words to say about it.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Tue May 25, 2021 6:27 pm

Thanks. Been too long a fan of VCC not to buy, and I may have to grab Pichon Lalande for the same reason.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Sat May 29, 2021 4:21 pm

Antoine wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 3:13 pm 55 years old and stopping primeurs? I was 66 last year...and bought 4 half bottles cases and 3 Canons... half bottles should be all right in 12 years and the Canon can be decanted...

I am 53 now and stopped buying new vintages with 2016. I generally like my Bordeaux at about 20 years old

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Sat May 29, 2021 5:13 pm

So, 53 now hence you were 48 in 2016!... hence have decided to stop drinking when 68?... Well, I should be on my last bottles?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sat May 29, 2021 5:14 pm

Prieure Lichine half bottles are looking attractive to me right now. Only $9.99 each (50% deposit) paid up front at TW.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Sat May 29, 2021 7:53 pm

I'm new to the forum and starting to build out a collection. I'm 37 so have some years to go and am considering Christophe, Barde Haut and Laroque for 2020 so far. In 18 and 19 I bought 3 each of Pape Clement, Giscours, Gaffeliere, d'Issan, Pavie Macquin, Cantenac Brown, Malartic Lagraviere, Fleur Cardinale, La Dominique and Leoville Poyferre.

I've never ventured far from $150 a bottle max but I could financially.

Any recommendations to balance both longer and shorter term for 2020 futures?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 29, 2021 8:16 pm

Welcome PghMike!
Those are certainly some great choices!

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat May 29, 2021 8:45 pm

PghMike wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:53 pm I'm new to the forum and starting to build out a collection. I'm 37 so have some years to go and am considering Christophe, Barde Haut and Laroque for 2020 so far. In 18 and 19 I bought 3 each of Pape Clement, Giscours, Gaffeliere, d'Issan, Pavie Macquin, Cantenac Brown, Malartic Lagraviere, Fleur Cardinale, La Dominique and Leoville Poyferre.

I've never ventured far from $150 a bottle max but I could financially.

Any recommendations to balance both longer and shorter term for 2020 futures?

Your purchases mostly lean more modern to very modern stylistically here, so my recommendation for the long-haul is to consider also buying some classics. If you ultimately don’t like the classic Bordeaux - and I think you will over time - they are easy to flip.

Leoville Barton
Sociando Mallett
Montrose
Haut Bailly
Calon Segur
Branaire
Grand Puy Lacoste
Cleric Milon
Duhart Milon
D’Armailhac

Just some examples here.

With your leaning, definitely gotta grab Les Carmes Haut Brion.

Welcome!

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Mon May 31, 2021 4:29 pm

Thanks for the recommendations OrlandoRobert. Will keep an eye on these names as well for 2020 and the remnants of 19. I did grab a Haut Bailly last year. Looking at a few older Branaire's online now.

2020 LB at $90, 2019 Branaire at $50 and 2019 Clerc Milon at $70 seem like pretty reasonable deals yes? No issue holding onto these for a long time.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Mon May 31, 2021 5:08 pm

PghMike wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:29 pm Thanks for the recommendations OrlandoRobert. Will keep an eye on these names as well for 2020 and the remnants of 19. I did grab a Haut Bailly last year. Looking at a few older Branaire's online now.

2020 LB at $90, 2019 Branaire at $50 and 2019 Clerc Milon at $70 seem like pretty reasonable deals yes? No issue holding onto these for a long time.

If you don’t have the 2016 Branaire, InternetWines has it for $60, along with some other gems:

https://internetwines.com/collections/b ... 16-futures

I’ve bought from them, sold internet retailer.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Mon May 31, 2021 6:12 pm

If only shipping to PA weren't such a pain. Internetwines doesn't even get to Ohio, WV or Maryland nearby. WDC has been my go to for convenience.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Mon May 31, 2021 7:43 pm

PghMike wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 6:12 pm If only shipping to PA weren't such a pain. Internetwines doesn't even get to Ohio, WV or Maryland nearby. WDC has been my go to for convenience.

LOL weird, They definitely ship to my state, Florida. These state/by/state shipping laws are so bizarre.

Dandersson · Post by **Dandersson** » Mon May 31, 2021 9:21 pm

PghMike,
Welcome!
I agree with everything Robert said above.
If you still can find it around where you are Leoville Barton 2019 around $75 as well as Gruaud Larose 2019 also $75.
Enjoy!

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:48 pm

La Lagune, Bourgneuf, Carmes Haut Brion, Tertre Roteboeuf, Sociando Mallet, Phelan Segur, Boyd Cantenac, Lascombes, Corbin, etc.

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:57 am

La Lagune, Labegorce & Tour St Bonnet for me so far.

Will add some more as the offers come through (likely to be Giscours, Bourgneuf and Phelan Segur).

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:28 pm

Corbin came out today at the price lower than La Lagune. It's at least as excellent as LL.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:58 pm

You tempter, GBF, you tempter.
You've got me buying case quantities of Corbin from '18 and '19, after I swore off more purchases post 16.
Now '20? Where is Father Stefan....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:06 pm

Padre stefan is thinking about what he should get for drinking after he turns 100.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:08 pm

Just as an aside, I bought 3 bottles of Cantermerle 2019 at $26 (Zachys)

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:27 am

No sign of 2020 Bordeaux futures here yet. What's going on?

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:00 am

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:08 pm Just as an aside, I bought 3 bottles of Cantermerle 2019 at $26 (Zachys)

Wow!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:23 am

Boy those 2019s are well priced.