Buying 2020 futures is hard to justify.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:41 am

For me that is the point.

When a new vintage comes out, it is hard to avoid the slow seduction of a long marketing campaign, but there is still a ton of 2019 available, purchased with a stronger dollar. If someone doesn’t want to explore the secondary market, and buy the other great vintages because they don’t know where they came from, 2019 has the same unbroken chain as 2020, and will be a lot cheaper.

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:59 pm

Yes.... Domaine de chevalier 20% increase in € terms... and 2019 is better... No brainer

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:35 pm

Speaking of DDC, does anyone have any experience/views on their second wine, L'Esprit de Chevalier Rouge? The 2020 is being offered at $45 (NZ all up) which I'm considering pulling the trigger on.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:12 pm

Haven't tried that but I had an 15 Lespault Martillac 'rouge' a while ago. That is also made by DDC and its ok

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... ult#p78578

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:23 pm

My theory is that our good friend Alfred really threw a spanner in the works by dropping his price on Pontet Canet by 30% in the 2019 vintage - it upset all the cartels. Now the powers that be are trying to claw back pricing power. I haven’t bought any 2020s yet but I might buy some halves of some RB and Margaux appellation.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:23 pm

Guys
I did not initially intend to buy any 2019’s but the attractive prices and relatively strong SGD at the time were too much to resist. I ended up buying about a dozen cases, even more than I bought of 2016’s.

I still have not seen prices for Carmes HB but if it is too expensive I’ll just buy a few Margaux wines and maybe a few St Emilions.

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:41 pm

Thanks AKR.

Iven just added some 2020 Phelan Segur and Saint Pierre, so will hold off on the above for now.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:41 am

6x Laroque
6x Christophe
3x Clos L'Eglise

Took advantage of the 20% cashback from Retailmenot with Wine.com.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:51 am

Very, very well done indeed, PghMike.

dhp · Post by **dhp** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:53 pm

One thing that 2020 has going for it is that it seems to be a lower ABV vintage, generally speaking (unless it was the tariffs talking that souped up the 2019 EP samples). I've resisted the temptation to buy 2020 by buying more 2019, but I have been looking at Brane-Cantenac...

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:08 pm

Just added some Giscours as well. That will probably be it for me. So total 2020 purchases are:

La Lagune
Tour St Bonnet
Phelan Segur
Saint Pierre
Giscours
Labegorce

Edit: Looking at the above, realised I was missing some Bourgneuf - order now placed.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:19 pm

Les Carmes HB or Lynch Bages? Any opinions?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:28 pm

Lynch. Carmes is a faux wine by comparison.

But prices are substantially above the 2019s.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:57 pm

Thanks. Yes looking at 19 for Lynch. Almost everything I've reverted back to 2019, but shipping to PA limits me a bit.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:21 pm

One of my old law school buddies, Mark Flaherty, has a big liquor law law firm in Pittsburgh, great town, been meaning to get out there to visit him.

2019 seems to be a vintage I need to take a look at, Lynch and Leoville Barton interests me.

Ianjaig · Post by **Ianjaig** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:10 am

The Lynch offer just came through today - $280 (NZ) or $200 US? and Echo at $80 - both all up.

Will probably skip both, but am thinking about Reserve de la Comtesse at $89.

The prices aren't as good as 19 of course, but I'm keen to keep adding.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:45 am

Lynch is $135 US for 2020. Still around $99 for 2019 though...

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:49 am

JimHow wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:21 pm One of my old law school buddies, Mark Flaherty, has a big liquor law law firm in Pittsburgh, great town, been meaning to get out there to visit him.

2019 seems to be a vintage I need to take a look at, Lynch and Leoville Barton interests me.

Can confirm it's a great town. Lots of great restaurants, most also survived Covid. High end wine isn't much of a thing here though which I blame on the years of state store control. Not many folks really think about what they are buying and just look at price and label. Even most higher end restaurants don't have much of a selection.

JeanFred · Post by **JeanFred** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:52 am

As Nick said, we still waiting to see the offer and the price from our « Quebec Alcohol Society » ... They are always late compare to US but it is worse this year.

JeanFred

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Just saw an offer for 2020 Pontet Canet for $111/bottle compared to $80/bottle for first tranche of 2019. That is a hefty increase, though I think they came out with pricing early last year and others did not lower prices as much as they did.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:56 pm

Pontet came out first last year at like 30 or more percent reduction I think with very high supporting critic scores, so this gets them about back to 2018 par.

I missed out on 19, planning to grab a few today.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:09 pm

Resistance Is futile. My resolve cracked this week, and I started to have a nibble.

I bought 12 halves of Pichon Lalande, which was offered for below where the 2019 is currently trading, and I am very excited by this wine in particular, judging by some of the descriptions, and the direction of this estate more generally; and the quality of the output year in year out, which, to be fair, you could say about several other similar estates.

Harder to justify was the 12 halves of D’Issan, but I really like what is going here too, and I predict the price of D’Issan will move up significantly in relative terms in coming years. In 2020 Emmanuel Cruse added Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot and Malbec to the blend for the first time.

Finally some three packs of Ausone, an insider’s candidate for wine of the vintage, an estate with arguably the best terroir in what is deemed the strongest performing appellation in 2020, where the quality is now at least on a par with anything else on the right bank, where production at 2000 cases a year is half that of Petrus, one third of Cheval Blanc and one tenth of Lafite, at about the same release price as Lafite, and significantly less than Cheval Blanc. The icing on the cake is that they dispensed with the services of Monsieur Rolland a few years ago. So if I get run over by the #19 bus they will probably hold their value. With the real value of bank deposits declining by 2% a year you can’t blame me.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm

Very, very well done indeed!
Long live BWE.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:48 am

Looking for the offer here soon. But I won't do like Comte Flaneur, and keep my sanity with 2020. I plan to buy not that much. Don't have a clue what I will pick.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:22 pm

Some high prices.

I've difficulty understanding the 150 Euros difference between Grand Vin of Pichon Comtesse and the second wine.

I already purchased Carmes Haut Brion and La Lagune, and Trotanoy. I wait for Petit Village. I will buy Corbin, Meyney, Haut Marbuzet, Phelan Segur and Sociando. I haven't tasted Meyney and Haut Marbuzet. 1-2 bottles of each.

The other wines won't light my desire, even if I have given them pretty high scores.

Btw, I published my report with tasting notes and ratings on the 2020 vintage from the barrel. It took a hell of the time and sweat, almost 500 tasted samples. But I came through thanks to listening to one of the best lead guitarists right now, Orianthi from Australia, who is a beautiful woman and who sings and plays the guitar like a dream.

https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vint ... rom-bottle

Happy reading for the weekend!!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:18 pm

Thanks GBF, as usual I look forward to the report!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:19 pm

If you had to reduce the 2020 vintage to one sentence, what would it be?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:51 pm

That link didn’t work Izak.

What do you think of Troplong Mondot in 2020?

It used to be a Parkerised abomination but now apparently it has reinvented itself into a beautiful wine.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:52 pm

Yeah I can’t log in Izak.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:47 pm

Ian and Jim,

Strange that the link doesn't work!

Have you both just tried www.greatbordeauxwines.com

and then navigate to Vintages in the drop-down menu and choose 2020-from-bottle

I've just copied in a new link and it apparently works.

https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vint ... rom-barrel

Ian,

Didn't receive Troplong Mondot 2020 for tasting.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:10 pm

Got it now, Izak!

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:50 pm

bottle or barrel?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:34 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:19 pm If you had to reduce the 2020 vintage to one sentence, what would it be?

Personally: I'm too old to buy a single bottle of 2020 Bordeaux.

Generally: The quality/price ratio of 2020 Bordeaux is lower than that of 2019 except for those who are extremely alcohol-sensitive, so direct your dollars accordingly.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:28 pm

How do the alcohol levels in 2019 compare to 2020?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:15 pm

A little higher alcohol in 2019 from what I’ve read.
But probably needs to be compared on a case by case basis.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:29 am

I had a rant about the discrepancy between scores at several wines in vintage 2020 on Facebook the other day.

Visiting the website of Farr Vintners, I saw a difference of 10 points between scores for one property. We are many wine critics right now, many indeed.

Must be a vast difference in tasting buds.

For those who haven't read my epic and long epos on 2020, I've some suggestions to buy primeur:

1. Corbin - may be the best vintage for the property, and it still costs around 30-35 Euros - it's a bargain, I can tell you. Many of my colleagues underestimate this wine.

2. La Lagune - stunning 2020 from this property. A true gem of a wine, underrated by many wine critics, got up in price by 10-15% this time, but you can't complain as it outshines many CCs in Haut Medoc.

3. Bourgneuf - best vintage for the property yet.

4. L'ESprit de Chevalier - best second wine of D.d.Chevalier, I've ever tasted! Grand Vin is a badass wine as well!

5. Carmes Haut Brion - I saw somebody here on the forum calling the wine from this property a "faux" one! How can you do that? One of the best wines right now in Bordeaux, and 2020 is just exceptional. And I'm not alone in this praise.

6. Insider suggestions - CarlMagnus and de La Huste (both Fronsacs) and Lamothe Bergeron (Haut Medoc). Low prices!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:17 pm

Another great write up Izak. Thank-you.

I always tend to discount your La Lagune score by a couple of points because I suspect you have a crush on Caroline Frey.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:13 pm

From what i'm reading here, i'm now very scared of the prices...

Shoulg know in a week or two.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:27 pm

Caroline Frey is gone, no?
Say it isn't so.
Great stuff, Izak!
Man, I guess I'm definitely going to buy some 2019s, and now a few 2020s as well for when I'm 79.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:56 pm

3x 2020 Pontet
3x 2019 Rauzan
3x 2020 Canon

Watching for 2020 SHL and will probably grab 2020 d'Issan, 2020 DdC, and 2019 Branaire.