Buying 2020 futures is hard to justify.

[OrlandoRobert]

OrlandoRobert,

I met the guy in question during harvest 2012, so he must have been there a couple of years before.

Btw, one of my favourite wines at the moment went up almost 50% en primeur. It's Petit Village, and I think it's the new owners' decision. A bad one, for sure. I've great difficulty convincing myself that I should buy it. More expensive than Clinet now.

It is interesting how chateaux price themselves, and how careful they need to be to price itself at a new stratum. If the wine has triple 100 point reviews you can, but it is sheer foolishness to try and do it in 2020 with excellent but not extraordinary scores.

Let us see the problem. Since 2015 (and I am excluding 2014, which is as good but does not have the press) you have FIVE well regarded vintages. You have a pandemic and an uncertain economy. Most of your foreign clients have 10% less buying power because of weak currency. Inventory is huge as only 2019 had a really successful campaign, your competition was slightly more measured with their pricing etc etc.

I agree with you it was not a good move. I would go further and say that it was idiotic. My question is did the negotiants buy at this inflated price?

As a final note, and it may just be me, I have a problem taking any chateau seriously with a name that includes Petit. If it were called Grand Village, maybe it wouldn’t sound like an underachiever.

Marc have you tried the Bourgneuf recently? I was not thrilled to hear that they brought in a Rollandite consultant, which I guess explains some of the better press more recently. I need to pop the 2015s that I just got in.

[greatbxfreak]

OrlandoRobert,

You are mixing things!

Stephane Toutoundji is not a disciple of Michel Rolland! He is in Thomas Duclos' team, which has a completely different view on oenological consultancy.

Guys,

Please be kind to check facts before you write wrong info.

[OrlandoRobert]

OrlandoRobert,

You are mixing things!

Stephane Toutoundji is not a disciple of Michel Rolland! He is in Thomas Duclos' team, which has a completely different view on oenological consultancy.

Guys,

Please be kind to check facts before you write wrong info.

I checked before I posted. He trained under Rolland per multiple sources.

Is that incorrect? You are certainly plugged in, I’m just a country poke from Florida!

Even if true, it may not mean anything, but it always raises my eyebrows.

[greatbxfreak]

OrlandoRobert,

Yes, he was trainée at Michel Rolland in his early days but changed to Thomas Duclos team.

Thomas Duclos isn't Michel Rolland, and he utilizes gentle extraction, low temperature at maceration and less new oak.

He's the office in Libourne and also one in Pauillac. He consults mainly Right Bank properties, among these Jonathan Maltus ones.

Bourgneuf had one from Derenencourt team before Stephane Toutoundji has come in.

[DavidG]

GBF, you have to understand that to Orlando Robert, Rolland is like the Borg. Any contact and you are irreversibly and irredeemably assimilated.

[Blanquito]

GBF, you have to understand that to Orlando Robert, Rolland is like the Borg. Any contact and you are irreversibly and irredeemably assimilated.

Never to be trusted (with the grapes) again!

[OrlandoRobert]

GBF, you have to understand that to Orlando Robert, Rolland is like the Borg. Any contact and you are irreversibly and irredeemably assimilated.

LOL, the Borg is a complement! It’s worse. Yes indeed, If Uncle Rollo is involved, I’m out!

I’ll try it, but no way to it buy quantity before trying. It is curious that the critics’ scores for this wine are way up.

Based on the buzz here, I will try it.

[Musigny 151]

GBF, you have to understand that to Orlando Robert, Rolland is like the Borg. Any contact and you are irreversibly and irredeemably assimilated.

That is actually not quite true but pretty close
You can use Rolland as much or as little as you want. When he is choosing harvest dates he is downright dangerous.

OTOH, my friend Annabel Cruse uses one of his people in the vineyards where she feels he has been incredibly helpful, and I love the wines.

Actually a few escaped, apart from Picard, I can think of at least two. I am sure there are others, but I got a little bored with the franchise and stopped watching.

[Nicklasss]

Rolland is like Ziggy Stardust: every wine lovers will love his wine, when he'll be...

Buy as much 2020 Bordeaux made by Rolland. I guess he might be... in the coming few years.

[Nicklasss]

Finally bought some 2020. Our new shitty system to buy wine at our provincial liquor store cut a part of my order...

So i end up with one mixed case with 3 of each of these:

Olivier
Domaine de Chevalier
Nénin
La Lagune

[Dionysus]

Some great choices Nick, DdC and Nénin were my sole purchases from 2020.

I'm hearing mix reviews of the 2020's, particularly Cab Sav dominant blends...it appears some got caught out by the rains in mid Sept. Merlot faired somewhat better as many were harvested before the weather changed.

These views are generalisations of course, there'll be standouts on both sides of the bank, regardless of varietals. But against the more homogeneous and better priced 2019's, I'll tread cautiously.

[Nicklasss]

Because of the new buying system from Quéec SAQ, you have to confirm your order (i didn't), while before it was charged directly on your credit card.

So i lost all the wines ordered... i did a new order, but none of those wines were still available.

So end up with:

Clos du Marquis
The "infamous" Grand-Puy Lacoste
Talbot

And...

Calon Segur!

[greatbxfreak]

https://www.facebook.com/lalagunegrandc ... =-UC%2CP-R

It's always heartwarming to get a great response from a given chateau for published tasting notes/ratings.

I love wines from La Lagune!!

[JimHow]

Well done, Izak, you are summiting with the big boys in the world of wine reviewing!

[Antoine]

Followed the hard to justify advice. I believe they wre priced so that 2019 and others left overs sell... Usual marketing trick...

[Musigny 151]

Not just 2019; there are plenty of stocks of 2018, ‘17 and a few 2016.
OTOH with wine prices up, it makes sense to go back to 2018 norms; it will all be sold soon enough. I would have done the same. However, it does still mean that 2019 represents a serious buying opportunity, and smart money will be taking advantage of it. Not only were the opening prices cheap, but again the stronger dollar adds 10%. When I asked my money guy what should I do with my cash he suggested CDs with 0.04, or $40 for each $10,000 invested. Might as well buy wine, still liquid.

[Racer Chris]

I just pulled the trigger on a small purchase of 2020s from Total Wine.
6 halves of Prieure-Lichine @ 19.97
6 Lilian Ladouys @ 19.97
3 Cantemerle @ 27.97
3 Talbot @ 59.97

[edj33446]

I am not impressed by the 2020 notes, so far. I bought a total of about 8 cases of 2019. I won't by GC's...Lynch Bages, Pichon Baron, Leoville Poyferre, Leoville Barton and some good Pomerols and Saint Emilion wines. Half-cases mostly. I'm 59 ! That is enough. The values were good and I am in favor of the recent trend to fresher, less extracted, and less alcoholic wines.

[DavidG]

With you, edj. Well done on 2019s! But you’re still young enough to take advantage should another great or good value vintage come along.

[JimHow]

Edj is a puppy.

[edj33446]

I have 1650 bottles in storage....bordeaux 60-70 percent...I am filling in 2014 2016 and 2019 Bordeaux. I am buying more burgundy lately....

Emery

[dstgolf]

Emory,

If you haven't realized this is a disease worse than covid. Doesn't matter how many bottles you have cellared or how old you are you gotta have it! Well maybe not. This board is infectious and drives people to the limits of rational thinking. Age...what does that have to do with anything. Look at Stefan still going strong and still loading up but maybe not with 2020 futures in the numbers that youth should bring. Yes maybe it's not rational but when you start dragging amazing wines from yom your cellar 20 years from now for your children and grandchildrento enjoy along with a longstanding friend or three to share those treasures you won't regret it. We have similar sized cellars and I'm 5 yrs older with 20 cases of 18 & 19 Bordeaux futures pending delivery. No regrets and hopefully I'll enjoy these into my eighties and if not my son will gladly inherit them with his ever developing palate. This is fun and not all about $$$ but sharing down the road is what makes this a fabulous passion. These wines will never go to waste and who knows what we'll be sharing in 2041!! Don't let age dictate your passion as at 59 you should have 30 + more years!

[greatbxfreak]

dstgolf,

Amen to that!!

[Nicklasss]

I agree wit dstgolf, and will even add a leyer.

Hope, dream, happyness keeps you alive. So buying 2020 Bordeaux is your best chance to still be alive in 20 more years, as you will be happy to have them, and making everythings right in your life to try them in 20 years...

It is all positive.

[DavidG]

Hey Danny, I hear you! Passion over logic has been my credo when it comes to numbers of bottles and costs. Rational thinking kind of caught up to me after my fusion/retirement/home downsizing. I'm trying to put it back in the rear view mirror.