Best vintages of Bordeaux dinner

[Comte Flaneur]

Simple but obvious theme. This dinner had been in the works for over three months. It came together rather well. Along the way we a couple of drop outs, which meant that for the first flight of claret, rather than have 1961 Gruaud against 1962 Latour, Pichon Lalande 1982 was pitted against Leoville Lascases 1982. That this was the least impressive of the three claret flights gives you some insight into how well we drank last night.


Krug, cuvée 162, Brut

Bready, yeasty, biscuity, a bit nutty, good balance, nuanced, a bit further advanced than the 168 I tried last week. A distinguished wine and an ideal way to start. **** (92)


1990 Pessac Léognan, Domaine de Chevalier, Grand Cru Classé de Graves

Shy and slow out of the blocks, it seemed a bit dilute and nondescript initially, but opened well with air, and became gently perfumed. It had a decent colour for its age. ***(90)

2001 Pessac Léognan, Domaine de Chevalier, Grand Cru Classé de Graves

More assertive, aggressive even, with an attack characterised by bold oak and acidity. It settles down with some nice oily lemon citrus notes. Like the 1990, it married well with the tagliatelle squid. ***(90)



1982 Saint-Julien, Château Leoville Las Cases, 2eme Cru Classé

Beautifully expressive nose of charcoal, lead pencil and some piped tobacco. On the palate pleasing cool tobacco notes, layered intensity but still, after all these years, quite dense and brooding. ****(1/2) 94. Drink 2021-2082

1982 Pauillac, Château Pichon Comtesse de Lalande, 2eme Cru Classé

A very different proposition with a supremely elegant and luxurious attack with herbs and burnt raspberry cream. Refined, elegant and resolved, it seems to have lost some of the youthful exuberance and scintillating quality that set it apart from other wines over the years. Still like the Lascases a thrill to drink. ****1/2 94. Drink 2021-2025, but preferably sooner rather than later.



1985 Saint-Julien, Château Leoville Las Cases, 2eme Cru Classé

In recent years this has been a benchmark for fine claret. This wasn’t just a good bottle it was a great one. It is not clenched, brooding and edgy like the 1982, rather so relaxed in its own skin, suave, and effortlessly brilliant as it ticks pretty much every box. It has berry fruit, minerals, graphite, cigar box aromas and fine texture. As a standard bearer for everything we admire about claret it is not a flashy wine, but for a 1985 it packs quite a mid-palate punch. This is still in the early stages of its drinking window. ***** 97. Drink 2021-2050

1985 Pauillac, Château Mouton Rothschild, 1er Cru Classé

More evolved than the Leoville-Lascases this is racier and sexier as it glides across the palate like a ballerina. As it opens up it seduces you as it weaves its magic spell around you with lux red fruits, exotic spices/spicebox, truffles, cigar box and forest floor. Suddenly the Leoville Lascases comes across a tad leaden in comparison. Diaphanous, deft and dextrous this is a mesmerising wine, and my wine of the night. *****98. Drink 2021-2030.



1989 Margaux, Château Palmer, 3eme Cru Classé

Whilst recognising its qualities I have had mixed experiences with this wine, and often preferred the less lauded 1990. Last night I finally got it and it was a splendid bottle of Palmer. Still quite an introvert it opens beautifully, and is classically styled with low alcohol (it said 12% on the bottle) with a pleasingly rasping, savoury edge, which marries beautifully with the blooming Margaux berries. *****97. Drink 2021-2050.

1989 Saint-Julien, Château Leoville Barton, 2eme Cru Classé

A late entrant and the least glamorous claret in the line up, it nevertheless held its own in such august company. Very old school and correct, with earthy notes, minerals, slate, cigar box, and dried herbs, I preferred this bottle to the one we had a few week’s ago at Hawksmoor, but not quite up to the one we drank at Jason’s Leoville Barton dinner last year. 94 ****1/2. Drink 2021-2040.

1989 Pessac-Leognan, la Mission Haut-Brion, Cru Classé Graves

Captivating and intoxicating nose of bonfire, ash, gravel, tobacco leaf, cigar box and many other things, leading to a sumptuous and very finely textured palate. Such a flamboyant and thrilling wine, it is full bodied and exuberant but has fine poise. 97 *****. Drink 2021- 2040.



1988 Barsac, Château Climens, 1er cru classé, Bordeaux, France

A good bottle of this perennial favourite. Rich, layered but not too sweet; medium-bodied with a pleasing symbiosis of sweet apricots and a tangy marmalade cut. **** 93


It was a four way contest for wine of the night, and it was a travesty that the 1985 LLC only came fourth, but it was my fourth rated wine too. For the group it was Palmer third, Mouton second while La Mission took the chequered flag.

I had Palmer third, La Mission second and as already noted Mouton first.

And in the Pantheon of great boxers Mohammed Ali should be rated a second…as Dr Spock used to say: “that is illogical captain.”

[JimHow]

Baby doll. Yeah, that 1985 Mouton is a stunner.
Indeed, those are pretty much all some historic BWE wines.

[JoelD]

Amazing lineup even with the cancelations. I really hope to try those 85's some day.

Very interesting to see how long of a life you give to the 82 Las Cases as well. I found this to be a very good, but not great wine. May have to check in on one of my 2 bottles left and see though. Had considered selling them for wines I liked better.

[stefan]

Fabulous tasting you had, Ian. It is interesting that 1985 faired so well. Most wines from this vintage were very good young, but I did not expect them to age so well as they have.

[Blanquito]

Dude (as my 5 year old has started regularly saying), what a tasting! Fantastic.

The 85s were such a great bargain for so long compared to the 82, 89 and 90s, but around 10 years ago or so the prices really shot up and pretty much pulled even in cost. I got a few before the surge —eg, cases of the wonderful 85 Canon, Talbot, Gruaud, Leoville Poyferre, Beychevelle, all for $60-$80. And except for their 82s, these 85s are generally as good or better from these chateaux than their 86, 89 or 90s.

I recall several incredible bottles of the 85 LMHB that Winona Chief brought to tastings, the first of which was extra enthralling:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3534&p=25191&hilit= ... ion#p25191

It seems like the only generally underrated 80’s bordeaux at this point are the 83s.

[greatbxfreak]

Ian,

Great tasting!

These two D.d.Chevaliers were white wines? If yes, I'm surprised by the low score for 2001 as this vintage was fabulous for white Bordeaux.

Mouton R. 1985 has always been among the very best in this vintage, if not the best. Tasted last time in 2015 - fantastic wine!

[Claudius2]

Guys
The 85’s have aged much better than I expected them to, and I wonder if I drank them too young?
The 85 Leoville Barton was the WOTN at a vertical tasting last year and the 82 seemed a little sullen though still very good.

I bought 48 1985 Gruaud Larose at auction in the mid 90’s and gulped it down by the end of that decade. It cost $A19 and incl fees around $23 and the AUD was only worth about USD 0.58 at the time. It was never a big wine like the 86 for example but very good with a floral nose and lovely balance.

I also fondly remember drinking numerous other classed growths such as DB, Beychevelle, PL, Lynch B and various St Emilions with much pleasure. At the time I did not think they would make old bones but clearly they have kept well.

Somehow the 85 Moutons that I’ve sipped were not nearly as remarkable as everyone else says and either it is about style or the case was atypical or at least a bit under par.

The last tasting I did before leaving Australia included 82 LLC and HB and both were the most preferred wines and the 85 Mouton which was one of my contributions was rated last of the combined 1st and 2nd growth flight. Yet I’d had five other bottles from the same OWC which were similar albeit a bit better. Even the 88 Gruaud Larose I also brought was rated above it and I thought it wasn’t a top bottle. I also wonder if too many wines imported into Australia are dulled by heat exposure.

Cheers
Mark

[DavidG]

Awesome report, well done!

Patrick, is your preference for the '85 Talbot and Gruaud over the '86 long-standing or recent? My preferences are reversed, but I haven’t had an '85 in a long time.

Guys
The 85’s... I wonder if I drank them too young?

Mark, I’m wondering the same thing.

[Nicklasss]

Very nice tasting Comte.

Count me as a fan of the 1985 Léoville Las Cases. A great complex and balanced LLC.

In the story of BWE generosity, i remember at a convention (it was 2007 or 2009 if i remember well), someone put one bottle of the 1985 Mouton Rothschild at each table (was it sdr?). The Pauillac was delivering all the goods that night, only contender was a bottle of the 1999 Leroy Gevrey Chambertin 1er Cru Les Combottes...

The 1985 red Bordeaux have mostly been all excellent to me. The 1985 Margaux is exquisite too in the First Growth. And of course, there is the magnificent stories about the 1985 Grand-Puy Lacoste in 2002 and 2016.

In your report, even with the small samples of each vintage, it is like 1989 are in a better place than the 1982, today. With all the 1989 we had in Denver. Hard to say the opposite, but of course, it is a matter of taste.

[AKR]

Very impressive.

[Blanquito]

Awesome report, well done!

Patrick, is your preference for the '85 Talbot and Gruaud over the '86 long-standing or recent? My preferences are reversed, but I haven’t had an '85 in a long time.

Guys
The 85’s... I wonder if I drank them too young?

Mark, I’m wondering the same thing.

Good point, DG. Talbot is the one wine where I have a clear preference for the 86, though the 85 is still excellent. I’ve acquired all of these via auctions, and for whatever reason I’ve had a much easier time finding well stored 85 Talbots than 86. Maybe the 86s are flipped more given the high Parker score. I do think the 85 Gruaud = the 86 Gruaud. They are in a different style but I think the 85 is more complex and shows more charm. I think the 85 Poyferre is much better than the 86, FWIW.

[DavidG]

Thanks Patrick. An ‘85/‘86 Talbot/Gruaud shootout would be fun.

[Blanquito]

Thanks Patrick. An ‘85/‘86 Talbot/Gruaud shootout would be fun.

Yes! Thursday or Saturday night at DC ‘21?

[Claudius2]

David
Yeah I think so.
But they were silky, medium bodied wines with red fruits and moderate tannins. They were quite delightful. I wonder if I will ever see Bordeaux like this again…. I suppose I realise I’m just getting old when I reminisce about old wines.

In relation to 1986, the style is entirely different and side by side I think in the left bank, 86 is better and produced many legendary wines. 1985 was better on the right bank with some exceptions.

So I say 86 is better overall but the firm tannins in some wines reminded me of 1975, which ended up being a much better vintage than expected.

The 85 GL was a wine I could drink every day. Fragrant, red fruited, lovely balance and well balanced. The few times I’ve drunk the 86 it was a different animal entirely. Firmer, more tannic and if I’m allowed to say it in 2021, a masculine wine.

I just wish I could buy 85 GL for the same price now. The 85 Mouton cost me (I think) $A71 a bottle by the case and at the last auction I went to, it was ten times that, accepting a time differential 40 odd years.

Cheers
Mark

[DavidG]

Mark, the thing about '86 is that the wines were so tannic early on that we knew we had to put them away for a looooong time. Some thought they'd never come around. Many were outstanding if one had enough patience - legendary as you say. The '85s didn't seem like they needed as much time, and were easier to consume earlier on.

We're all getting older, and it's not just wines the likes of which we may never see again.

[Winona Chief]

Drank a lot of bottles of 1985 Bordeaux early on - they were so easy to drink, even at 5 or 6 years old. The 1985 Pichon Lalande was a clear winner at the May 21 event organized by Joel. Unfortunately it has become very expensive - saw it recently advertised locally for $459.

Chris Bublitz

[robert goulet]

Wow....killer line up...I know Orl Bobby has preached to me the joys of the '85 vintage. I am shamed to say I own none...don't judge little Goulet....from notes I have read '85 is an underrated and charming vintage... Is the 80's the best decade of Bordeaux ever?

I have been buying '83, 88, '96 and '01 ..and dare I say the '93, classified growths with merlot in the blend...a '93 D'issan note soon.. yes a '93 D'issan with an average critic score of 79pts lol

[DavidG]

Wow....killer line up...I know Orl Bobby has preached to me the joys of the '85 vintage. I am shamed to say I own none...don't judge little Goulet....from notes I have read '85 is an underrated and charming vintage... Is the 80's the best decade of Bordeaux ever?

I have been buying '83, 88, '96 and '01 ..and dare I say the '93, classified growths with merlot in the blend...a '93 D'issan note soon.. yes a '93 D'issan with an average critic score of 79pts lol

Certainly in my lifetime.

[Musigny 151]

The 1985s were compared to the 1953s by some of the more mature critics. Never a blockbuster vintage, but a lot of good beautifully balanced wines likely to be great over many decades. And so I think it has proved.

The 2016s may be similar.

[Claudius2]

The 1985s were compared to the 1953s by some of the more mature critics. Never a blockbuster vintage, but a lot of good beautifully balanced wines likely to be great over many decades. And so I think it has proved.

The 2016s may be similar.

Based on the few 2016’s I have tried, I’d say that 16 is a bigger, richer vintage and I’d argue that 2015 is somewhat closer to 85 than is 2016. But I’m keeping an open mind.

I think I made the spurious assumption that 85 would not age well as they were so accessible young.

Cheers
Mark

[robert goulet]

I really don't care much for the vintages of late...nothing tastes classic anymore...sigh


Maybe 25 yrs fixes this?

[OrlandoRobert]

I really don't care much for the vintages of late...nothing tastes classic anymore...sigh


Maybe 25 yrs fixes this?

I don’t think so. You definitely have a 1980s palate. I don’t think that can be replicated, unless we are talking about a select few wines like BAMA. Wines are cleaner, more polished, better phenolic ripeness. And more consistent. Yes sadly, many have lost that soul, that distinctiveness, that you and I adore. We are seeing some great wines, though.

[Blanquito]

That 2000 BAMA was truly a time capsule back to an 80’s style or older.

[jal]

The name of this thread is best vintages, and I agree, the best vintages of Bordeaux were in the eighties.
Maybe 1996 and 2001 left bank had some winners. Maybe 2000, 2004 and 2005 as well but nothing gives as much pleasure as 80s Bordeaux.

[JimHow]

Amen, my brother.

[gene m.]

The 80's do bring many treasures, even the "lesser" vintages like 81 (in Margaux) have much charm and 83, again in Margaux is spectacular.
82. 85, 86, 88, 89 are so good from many many appelations. (7 vintages of note)
80, 84 and 87 are the years few hold in any regard (though do have an 87 HB and some 84's)

I do have a spceial place for the 60's, besides the music as it is the birh years of many friends and som egreat horizontals:
1961, 62, 64 (in Pomerol), 66 some odd smattering of 67.
The 90's are no sloutch: 90, even 95, 96, 98 (left bank is good, and great in Rt bank St Emilion + Sauternes + Graves), and 99 left bank
only 90's vintages I skipped were 91, 92, as the 93 and 94 are OK.

I haven't dug into many from 2000, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 or 08 yet, buts some had promise in 2000 and 03, 05

[robert goulet]

So recently I popped a '93 D'issan...after tasting an enjoyable '91 Mouton last yr. my interest in these so called 'off vintages' was sparked....so what the hell, let's start exploring....recently I purchased this D'issan at a reasonable price, I figured I had little to loose and alot to gain academically...again the aggregate critic scores for this wine came to a whopping 79pts...lol

Initially it was quite musty, like old damp corner of the basement musty action... As it acclimated over time to more oxygen the wine begin to show more nuances..green herbs, leather, cool dewy moss, smokiness, leather, light tangy red fruits and believe it, still some tannin remained...this is a wine that goes down just so effortlessly...the kind of bottle that u can take down with a smile and still feel fine afterwards with no guilt...the kind of bottle that screamed for a brisk fall evening, sitting in Adirondack chair, overlooking a quiet peaceful lake....it def. parked itself well within my wheelhouse...so far that I didn't want to share this wine with anyone...and I didn't, thank God I was alone! I took the whole bottle down with absolute glee. What a fuqn gem!!

D'issan is absolutely one of the most underrated producers in Bordeaux

[robert goulet]

I guess no love for '93's ...I must be alone on this ...lol

[JimHow]

The 1991 Mouton was delicious, the 1991 Latour was one of my favorite Latours ever.
Lynch was excellent in '91 as well. Pauillac was a sweet spot in 1991.

[OrlandoRobert]

I guess no love for '93's ...I must be alone on this ...lol

Your palate, like your style, is dead.

[Blanquito]

One of the best deals I ever got, which I’ve posted about before, was a case of the 92 Talbot on close out in 1995 for like $8-9 bottles. And I swear that after 5 years in the cellar, this wine blossomed marvelously showing surprising depth, wonderful nuance, and superb aromatics. It was cracking up by like 2005/6, but like the candle burned at both ends, it gave off such a lovely light.

[robert goulet]

Nice...I recently had the second lable of Talbot...again another '93...it was not very complex but still really enjoyable...had all the old school charm but just lighter.

[Claudius2]

Guys
I tried all the first and second growths (except a
few lesser seconds) at least once and while this vintage was light, the wines actually tasted quite good. I bought a case of Margaux and it was (for Margaux) an early drinker but it actually had that effusive berry character of the estate and was quite delicious.

Of the other firsts both Mouton and particularly Cheval Blanc we’re very good and several seconds were also very good for the vintage. I have to say that 1993 reminded me of some of the vintages from the 60s and 70s.

1993 was better than either 91 or 92 and the 93 Leoville Barton I drank last year was quite a nice wine and as good as the 94. It had aged much better than I expected it to at 17 years.

Cheers
Mark

[robert goulet]

Good to hear Mark....merlot actually faired ok in '93 so I am sure there are some gems to be found.