A sad thread

[stefan]

It is maybe bad form to do this, but then I am not a PC person. The thread

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi ... 1&t=182251

on a forum that I peruse from time to time made me very sad. I cannot identify with anything in it. Is drinking wine a competitive sport? Is it something that does not give enjoyment otherwise? Must you hit a new high at every dinner? I mean, come on, folks. Wine is a nice beverage that complements food you like. It is also for most of us a hobby to enjoy with like minded individuals.

[JimHow]

Jesus, what a pathetic, self-loathing thread.
Is this a site you guys visit regularly?
Honestly, I don't want to sound like a snob, but that berserkers site has always seemed so gross to me.
I know that a few of you dudes like OB etc frequent it regularly, and I love you guys nonetheless, but to me it is just yucky.
For one thing, on the very rare times I go over there I see that Victor Hong dude posting like EVERY time. 100% of the time.
That's the dude who used to bring like $9 supermarket wines to events when the rest of us would bring like Montrose and Pichon Lalande.
Is that dude still around? Really? When you go to that site do you have to read notes from that dude?
THAT'S what "Wine Berserkers" <rolls eyes> is all about?
Gross.

[DavidG]

I can relate to almost every one of the posts in that thread.
Nowhere did I get a sense of having to drink ever-better wines to maintain interest.
I got a sense of disenchantment and burnout, and some depression.
You guys must live charmed lives if your interest, in wine or life, has never lagged.

There’s a ton of info on WB and a lot of good folks. It’s way too big to have the intimacy of BWE, though there are groups there that are very close friends. I don’t think it’s fair to judge them all based on a selection of the most annoying. For those too easily annoyed, there’s always the option of skipping the aggravating posts. And if that’s too difficult, they have an "ignore" button that allows you to hide all the posts from those you can’t tolerate.

[JimHow]

I guess so, David. I consider myself a pretty open minded guy.
For whatever reason, every time I come away from that site I feel like there is a different, pretentious attitude there.
But that's just my anecdotal, biased opinion. I could be wrong.

[DavidG]

Well, if all you see are Victor's posts, I can see where your opinion would be influenced by selection bias.

[JimHow]

I go to that site like once a year, maybe every two years. I swear, every time I go there, Nine Dollar Victor appears on my screen, opining about something meaningless.

[SherilynDominion]

Really sad.

[Racer Chris]

Even Victor has value at WineBerserkers.
I am bothered by some members over there though, like the guy who thinks its ok to be abusive to sales clerks because he didn't get all the DRC he ordered.


I like reading and occasionally participating in threads over there. I was even tempted to impart some words of wisdom in the referenced topic.


One of my favorite recent threads was the one about an unopened case of '74 Heitz Marthas Vineyard, which ended up selling for around $30K. :O
It was timely for me, having just experienced that wine a few weeks earlier.

[stefan]

>>
You guys must live charmed lives if your interest, in wine or life, has never lagged.
>>

I guess I have lived a charmed life, David. In fact, I know I have.

>>
There’s a ton of info on WB and a lot of good folks.
>>

I agree. I especially appreciate contributions from Oregon winemakers, Marcus Goodfellow being my personal favorite. But most threads I do not open or simply scroll through quickly. On BWE I read every thread. Viewing even the worst posts here is better than grading papers.

[DavidG]

I agree, Stefan, I read every thread here and enjoy almost every one. The others may not be of interest but are rarely annoying.
WB has way too many threads to even try to read them all. The trick is to pick and choose.

As to a charmed life, I feel pretty darn lucky with my lot but gotta admit I still have my ups and downs.

Jim, LOL "Nine Dollar Victor." You're not the only one he annoys, and he is all over the site. I think someone once did a poll on "Who do you have on ignore" and he was up there in the standings.

[AKR]

Fortunately I had avoided even looking at that thread.

I would suspect a 'Nathyn Smyth' is the most 'ignored' member on WB.

[gene m.]

I was invited to WB to join in on some offlines in Napa 10+yrs ago. I went to my last WB offline in Forestville last weekend.
These folks are still my dear friends. The heritage old vines group and the traveling nomads from all over meet up for burgs/bdx throughout the year.

I like the updates on wine growing and the winemaker threads as I can vicariously experience what it was like since I dropped out.

The Asylum, Politics subforums are intentionally set up for the more degenerative discourse/rants/trolling that message boards attract and devolve into, so it's not where I choose to spend my time.

BerserkerDays are fun to try some new producers, I found Morgan Peterson's Bedrock, Will Sheaffer, met Jean Hoefflinger, Roy Piper and host of others that make some seriously outstanding wine andor farm some great sites.

Some of the wine tasting / wine dinner notes like Francios Audozes or Paul Seah are poetic, insightful and even moving at times.

I use WB like any EBB/Internet stuff, for my enjoyment, and oblige others to let them use it for theirs.
When the soul sucking lament or attention grabbing provocation comes out, I might take it up privately if I know the person.

[Racer Chris]

It is maybe bad form to do this, but then I am not a PC person. The thread

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi ... 1&t=182251

on a forum that I peruse from time to time made me very sad. I cannot identify with anything in it. Is drinking wine a competitive sport? Is it something that does not give enjoyment otherwise? Must you hit a new high at every dinner? I mean, come on, folks. Wine is a nice beverage that complements food you like. It is also for most of us a hobby to enjoy with like minded individuals.

The Berserker thing to do would have been to post this on that thread.

[AKR]

I was invited to WB to join in on some offlines in Napa 10+yrs ago. I went to my last WB offline in Forestville last weekend.
These folks are still my dear friends. The heritage old vines group and the traveling nomads from all over meet up for burgs/bdx throughout the year.

I like the updates on wine growing and the winemaker threads as I can vicariously experience what it was like since I dropped out.

The Asylum, Politics subforums are intentionally set up for the more degenerative discourse/rants/trolling that message boards attract and devolve into, so it's not where I choose to spend my time.

BerserkerDays are fun to try some new producers, I found Morgan Peterson's Bedrock, Will Sheaffer, met Jean Hoefflinger, Roy Piper and host of others that make some seriously outstanding wine andor farm some great sites.

Some of the wine tasting / wine dinner notes like Francios Audozes or Paul Seah are poetic, insightful and even moving at times.

I use WB like any EBB/Internet stuff, for my enjoyment, and oblige others to let them use it for theirs.
When the soul sucking lament or attention grabbing provocation comes out, I might take it up privately if I know the person.

I actually listened to a podcast last night on the origin story of WB. Many years ago when Squires ruled the eRP site with the gentle touch of Kim Jong Kook, there was a mass excommunication on cruel day. Even famous Alice Feiring - purged for her red hair and devotion to natural wines. So many fell that day. Even I was caught - moi - for crimes my avatar was suspected of! Like Hugenots who had to flee to free lands, the exiles found/formed WB. And now, a decades of vintages later, no one hears of eRP (nor even the great man himself) as the company seems to have aligned itself with a French tire company, finding synergy in such.

[AlexR]

As for being jaded with wine, I agree with David that this is something most geeks, myself included, have felt at one time or another. Fortunately, this has never lasted very long for me. That was usually due to health reasons (Jim, how long did you go without drinking any alcohol?).
But then there have also been times when I got fed up with the fine wine game, the pissing contests and bragging as opposed to pure, simple, sensual enjoyment.

Just yesterday I had a shopping cart full of groceries and when I checked out I realized that the total value was considerably less than one bottle of wine I was planning on serving in the coming week. For those of you who are well off, that is probably not a consideration. But it made me stop and think.

And then, there are occasions that I love (often in a particular context – location, food, dining partner, frame of mind, etc.) when I delight in drinking an uncomplicated fruity, *inexpensive* and delicious wine and I say to myself “If I never had anything better than this, I would still love drinking wine with my meals”. At such moments the (please pardon my language) intellectual masturbation of fine wine seems especially absurd and effete.

As for Wine Berserkers, it’s like a garden that needs to be weeded. There’s lots of pretention and narrowmindedness on Berserkers – but also lots of expertise... Some of the tastings mentioned there are mind-blowing, however, many people enjoy showing off too: showing off their expensive wines and their (real or imagined) knowledge.

BWE is a fun place. Sure people disagree, but flame wars are pretty rare.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[JimHow]

I’m sure berserkers is fine, it’s just not my cup of tea. Who am I to judge. I’ve been obsessed with wine for about 25 years, since about the mid 1990s. I try to go three (generally non consecutive) months per year without drinking, although I only did one month during Covid. I’m in a fast right now due to a big murder trial starting in four weeks. I may just stop altogether and sell my cellar at some point, especially if my friend moves to Maine, she does not drink alcohol.

[OrlandoRobert]

I can relate to almost every one of the posts in that thread.
Nowhere did I get a sense of having to drink ever-better wines to maintain interest.
I got a sense of disenchantment and burnout, and some depression.
You guys must live charmed lives if your interest, in wine or life, has never lagged.

There’s a ton of info on WB and a lot of good folks. It’s way too big to have the intimacy of BWE, though there are groups there that are very close friends. I don’t think it’s fair to judge them all based on a selection of the most annoying. For those too easily annoyed, there’s always the option of skipping the aggravating posts. And if that’s too difficult, they have an "ignore" button that allows you to hide all the posts from those you can’t tolerate.

Bingo.

I posted on that thread. I didn’t find anything bothersome at all. In fact, I posted that I’m going through a similar wine doldrum right now. Thank God there is whisky!

[jal]

My big issue with WB is that it's too fast, too many threads, too many posts, did someone ask something? Who knows? Who remembers? How to find out?

Some issues with arrogance and annoying posts, but I'm there so seldom that they're easily ignored.

I do read 99.99% of posts on BWE, more my speed.

[Winona Chief]

I occasionally read some of the threads on Wine Berserkers but try to focus on the posts by people I know and respect. I try to ignore the posts by some people that I find annoying. I found the aforementioned “sad thread” pretty irritating. I drink a fair number of big name wines but I have no trouble finding very good, pleasant and enjoyable wines priced between $15 and $40.

Chris Bublitz

[OrlandoRobert]

I was invited to WB to join in on some offlines in Napa 10+yrs ago. I went to my last WB offline in Forestville last weekend.
These folks are still my dear friends. The heritage old vines group and the traveling nomads from all over meet up for burgs/bdx throughout the year.

I like the updates on wine growing and the winemaker threads as I can vicariously experience what it was like since I dropped out.

The Asylum, Politics subforums are intentionally set up for the more degenerative discourse/rants/trolling that message boards attract and devolve into, so it's not where I choose to spend my time.

BerserkerDays are fun to try some new producers, I found Morgan Peterson's Bedrock, Will Sheaffer, met Jean Hoefflinger, Roy Piper and host of others that make some seriously outstanding wine andor farm some great sites.

Some of the wine tasting / wine dinner notes like Francios Audozes or Paul Seah are poetic, insightful and even moving at times.

I use WB like any EBB/Internet stuff, for my enjoyment, and oblige others to let them use it for theirs.
When the soul sucking lament or attention grabbing provocation comes out, I might take it up privately if I know the person.

I actually listened to a podcast last night on the origin story of WB. Many years ago when Squires ruled the eRP site with the gentle touch of Kim Jong Kook, there was a mass excommunication on cruel day. Even famous Alice Feiring - purged for her red hair and devotion to natural wines. So many fell that day. Even I was caught - moi - for crimes my avatar was suspected of! Like Hugenots who had to flee to free lands, the exiles found/formed WB. And now, a decades of vintages later, no one hears of eRP (nor even the great man himself) as the company seems to have aligned itself with a French tire company, finding synergy in such.

And funny irony, the founder of WB is named French, Todd French.

They are all good blokes, the guys that run the site. I did a Bern’s trip with them right before Covid, and we are getting together in October again. Really fun guys too. It ain’t just about wines. I’d hang out with French, Jorge, Kane, Fu, et al, even outside of wine.

You guys have created a truly special place here. I really enjoy the culture, but with my ADHD and squirrel seeing brainwaves, the intensity and volume of WB really works for me. I’ve made many friends there over the years, and have broken bread with man. Some have even become clients of mine and vice versa. Two of my closest friends, Carnes and our very own Bobby Gould’s, I met on eBob and then we all rolled to WB. I assume I found this Bordeaux sanctuary from Goulet, the shorter, less handsome, but almost equally charming, other OB.

Sometimes places are what you make of them. Not many are perfect, but like life, if it hits 7-8 out of 10 metrics for you, that’s winning.

[Musigny 151]

I posted on the thread; over the years we all experience some kind of burn out. For me, wine is not a solitary pleasure, you need to share with friends.


Over the last year or so, for obvious reasons it has been difficult. Hopefully this year things will change, and we will have some normality again.

[AKR]

And funny irony, the founder of WB is named French, Todd French.

They are all good blokes, the guys that run the site. I did a Bern’s trip with them right before Covid, and we are getting together in October again. Really fun guys too. It ain’t just about wines. I’d hang out with French, Jorge, Kane, Fu, et al, even outside of wine.

Sometimes places are what you make of them. Not many are perfect, but like life, if it hits 7-8 out of 10 metrics for you, that’s winning.

I had a few dinners with Brad Kane way back when I was enprisoned in Manhattan, before I Snake Pliskened my way out of there.

[Blanquito]

I went through my first extended wine burn out a couple years back. Wine appreciation had become largely a reductionist experience, where each wine was critiqued for its flaws and the good bottles occupied an ever narrower space of fewest-flaws.

It was kinda scary. What was I going to do with all this wine, if the malaise lingered? Who would I spend time with, in person and online, talking about our shared hobby? Fortunately it passed, but I get it.

[JoelD]

I went through my first extended wine burn out a couple years back. Wine appreciation had become largely a reductionist experience, where each wine was critiqued for its flaws and the good bottles occupied an ever narrower space of fewest-flaws.

It was kinda scary. What was I going to do with all this wine, if the malaise lingered? Who would I spend time with, in person and online, talking about our shared hobby? Fortunately it passed, but I get it.

This has always been a worry of mine, but as I immerse myself more I tend to get more into it. Although I do have less patience for average and below average wines. Sharing wine and learning knowledge from like minded folks(especially BWE) has been great in continuing the trajectory.

[dstgolf]

I think that it is only natural to have ebbs and flows with wine. Sometimes it's health related, boredom and just need a break etc but we find ourselves over the years having many months where there is little consumption and others it seems to much. We always appreciate good wine and especially with like minded friends so I'm not afraid that we'll ever turn away from wine forever but we certainly drink less often than we did before and I think this is a natural progression unless you are Lucie and Stefan.

As for wine berserkers I've looked but never shopped!

[stefan]

Ha, Danny. Today I did not even have a glass of wine with lunch (after a morning BCG). Tonight no wine at all because we are eating Mexican food for dinner.

[Blanquito]

Ha, Danny. Today I did not even have a glass of wine with lunch (after a morning BCG). Tonight no wine at all because we are eating Mexican food for dinner.

[Another] sign of the impending apocalypse.

[JimHow]

Ha, Danny. Today I did not even have a glass of wine with lunch (after a morning BCG). Tonight no wine at all because we are eating Mexican food for dinner.

That may be the saddest thing I have read in the 21 year history of this site.

[JCNorthway]

Article about red wine and tacos!

https://www.chicagotribune.com/dining/d ... story.html

[Claudius2]

Guys
I’ve never contributed to WB though did post on the old eRP site some years ago, as well as an Australian site that somehow disappeared over time.

I am terrible with food as I get rapidly bored with most dishes and keep trying different cuisines with some regularity but can’t handle the same food with any regularity with the exception of fruit which I eat by the fridge load.

However I’ve been drinking wine since the mid 70s and have never been bored with it. Like others I’ve had breaks sometimes for a few months at a time though mainly due to health issues. I currently drink wine 3-4 days a week and now virtually never drink beer or spirits. Never had a taste for spirits and while I can happily drink beer on occasion I get bored with it rather quickly.

I think one of my fascinations with wine is it’s endless variation. There are so many diverse styles, grape varieties and regions that if I get bored with one style then I stop drinking it for a while. Lately gone off Syrah but I will surely start drinking it again, and in any case the weather here does affect what I drink.

Interestingly wine consumption in my old country (Australia) increased 4% last year and 6% in Singapore though in the latter case from a low base. COVID-19 does seem to have stimulated some demand.

Whenever I want wine I start checking what is in the wine fridges and what I’m going to eat with it. Most of the time this takes only a minute but on some days I ebb and flow from one to the other. In an average week I drink white red and champagne in equal volumes, the reds being generally Bordeaux, Burgundy, Rhone, Aust Cabs or the occasional Italian or Spanish. I don’t love every bottle but I have been able to enjoy pretty well all of them without much effort.

The WB poster does not seem very contented and questions whether they are depressed. Yes that is sad but I don’t think wine has much to do with it. Rather it seems to be symptomatic of an underlying malaise.

Cheers
Mark

[Nicklasss]

Ups and downs in life is normal, wine included.

Personnally, i'm opening good wines (instead of regular wines) with non wine geeks. Always kind of a deception. But i just need to learn to open the right wine for the right type of persons.

At the opposite, if i drink only very regular wines, i tend to become like the non wine geeks : i drink more, without putting much attention on the wine, and feel down anyway.

Is that sad enough to do my first post on WB?

[Nicklasss]

Ha, Danny. Today I did not even have a glass of wine with lunch (after a morning BCG). Tonight no wine at all because we are eating Mexican food for dinner.

At least did you have sex? A day without wine or sex is a very bad day...

[stefan]

Can't have sex after BCG. In Australia, after BCG, you are advised not to have sex for six weeks. In the USA it is only(!) for two days. Dunno about Canada.

Margaritas with the Mexican food was pretty good. I used Dos Manos Anejo de Agave, Cointreau, and limes. Lucie let me have the worm. I doubt that any of the wines in the article Jon linked would have been better with the food.

[jal]

I doubt that any of the wines in the article Jon linked would have been better with the food.

The lambrusco would be the only one, I think. We just had tacos for lunch, Modelo works best imo.

[dstgolf]

Stefan,

FYI...CONDOMS!! Here is the recommendation US/Canada..."To protect your partner from coming into contact with BCG, you should not have sex for 48 hours after each treatment. Use a condom if you have sex at other times during the treatment course and for six weeks after treatment has ended." Sorry about the bad news but Lucie may be interested in the facts!! Nic you'd be doomed!

[stefan]

I thought I saw that on a Canadian site as well, Dr. Danny, but when I looked today I just found the info from Oz and the Cleveland Clinic. My urologist does not advise similarly. But then he makes more money if something goes wrong.

[Blanquito]

All this talk about sex is puzzling…. I thought we were all married??

[Winona Chief]

Being a prudish old man, I now have my eyes closed to this part of the thread.

Chris Bublitz

[dstgolf]

Patrick,

You are playing right into Nics hand....that's why he's not married or afraid to get married! Thank god that married shit and sex is a myth around here! Maybe not in Rocky Mountain high!

[Nicklasss]

Patrick,

You are playing right into Nics hand....that's why he's not married or afraid to get married! Thank god that married shit and sex is a myth around here! Maybe not in Rocky Mountain high!

Married or not, we're ll the same here : 1000 X more wine than sex!