2000 VCC and 2000 Trotanoy

[AlexR]

Six of us from several countries (Bordeaux is great for that!) enjoyed a dinner with great wines this past week.

We started off with a prestigious Champagne. I love Champagne as an aperitif, can drink it with food in a pinch, but downright dislike it with dessert (a common practice in France). In any event, this 1996 Grande Dame was brought out in honor of a Japanese-American friend who will be working on and off with Veuve Clicquot in the near future. La Grande Dame (60% Pinot Noir/40% Chardonnay) is their top wine and 1996 is considered a great vintage. At a quarter of a century, the wine was a deep amber-gold, definitely showing its age. The bead was tiny and still relatively vigorous. The bouquet was oxidative, with nutty, predominantly Chardonnay aromas. In true Veuve style, the wine was quite rich on the palate. In France, such old Champagnes are said to correspond to “le goût anglais”. Although I liked the wine, I’d have preferred it ten years ago.

Next up was an oddball wine, served blind, as were the remaining two. This was the 2015 white Château du Tertre. There was no hope of anyone guessing this since it consists of a very unusual blend of grape varieties: 42% Chardonnay, 31% Gros Manseng, 16% Viognier, and 11% Sauvignon Blanc. For that reason, it can only be sold as “Vin de France”, even though it comes entirely from du Tertre, a classified growth in Arsac (AOC Margaux).
In fact, this white proved to be more of a curiosity than a fine wine. It was rather hard to pin down and was somewhat tired even at 6 years of age. Still, it was an enjoyable discovery.
We sat back and tried to name all the white wines produced in Margaux and came up with chx. Margaux, Cantenac Brown, Palmer, Prieuré Lichine and, of course, du Tertre.

There seems to be a certain amount of revisionism going on about recent great vintages. 2000 was much heralded, made out to be the bee’s knees, and inevitably labelled the “vintage of the century” (already…). However, preferences are now being voiced for 2005, 2009, and 2010. Who’s right? As usual, vintage ratings need to be nuanced, not only based on Left Bank/Right Bank criteria, but also the performance of individual estates.
Be that is it may, I enjoy the 2000 great growths tremendously, and find that at age 21 most are drinking well now.
Anyway, these two heavy hitters from Pomerol have a loyal following and I was delighted with both of them.

Vieux Château Certan is owned by the Belgian Thienpont family who also have their fingers in several other Bordeaux pies, including the rare and famous Le Pin. Unassuming Alexandre Thienpont is a perfectionist who has done much to enhance the estate’s reputation.
2000 VCC showed extremely well in August 2021, and most of us around the table felt that it was on its plateau, feeling that, although it will be enjoyable for years to come, it is as good now as it ever will be. Appearing older than the Trotanoy, it featured a divine bouquet with spicy notes and complex, ethereal aromatics along with the inevitable hint of truffle. On bouquet alone, 2000 VCC probably edged out Trotanoy of the same vintage. But as we shall see, Totanoy has not said its last word… Anyway, 2000 VCC’s innate elegance came through on the palate as well, but in a, dare I say, feminine, Margaux-like way. We enjoyed the wine with grilled veal chops and chanterelle mushrooms, but I could see how a wine like this could partner the very greatest creations of French cuisine due to its tremendous class. The aftertaste was fresh, soft, and evanescent, like the bouquet.

We did well to taste 2000 Trotanoy after the VCC because the former was a much bigger wine. If we believe what’s printed on the labels, alcoholic degree does not explain everything here. The nose of the Trotanoy was very concentrated with sweet black fruit and earthy overtones. It was quite seductive, if more obvious than the VCC. 2000 Trotanoy was a revelation on the palate, with a wonderful velvety texture and plenty of body and richness. I might allocate demerit points based on an impression of alcohol, but also give this a fair chance of integrating with further age. However, the wine clearly will always be imposing – not that this precludes the refinement one expects from top tier Pomerol. The aftertaste was long and powerful.

The bottom line is that the competition between these two Pomerols was a draw. That being said, the same match in ten years’ time would probably yield different results, in my opinion.
For what it’s worth, here is the area under vine of three famous Pomerol estates:
Pétrus: 11.5 hectares
Trotanoy: 7 hectares
Vieux Château Certan: 14 hectares
Trotanoy’s second wine is called L’Espérance
VCC’s second wine is La Gravette.
Both are good value for money.
Never heard of a second wine for Pétrus…

Best regards,
Alex R.

[dstgolf]

Great notes Alex and nice to hear that you had company over to share a few great wines. We also had the 00 Trotanoy a few months ago and it was singing. Everything you described and more with the smooth concentration and goes on forever on the back palate. You got me salivating again on this one and sadly we drank our last bottle. The other 2 that I had we sacrificed too early in their life and never approximated the heights of joy the last one gave. Thanks for the memory.

[OrlandoRobert]

Six of us from several countries (Bordeaux is great for that!) enjoyed a dinner with great wines this past week.

We started off with a prestigious Champagne. I love Champagne as an aperitif, can drink it with food in a pinch, but downright dislike it with dessert (a common practice in France). In any event, this 1996 Grande Dame was brought out in honor of a Japanese-American friend who will be working on and off with Veuve Clicquot in the near future. La Grande Dame (60% Pinot Noir/40% Chardonnay) is their top wine and 1996 is considered a great vintage. At a quarter of a century, the wine was a deep amber-gold, definitely showing its age. The bead was tiny and still relatively vigorous. The bouquet was oxidative, with nutty, predominantly Chardonnay aromas. In true Veuve style, the wine was quite rich on the palate. In France, such old Champagnes are said to correspond to “le goût anglais”. Although I liked the wine, I’d have preferred it ten years ago.

Next up was an oddball wine, served blind, as were the remaining two. This was the 2015 white Château du Tertre. There was no hope of anyone guessing this since it consists of a very unusual blend of grape varieties: 42% Chardonnay, 31% Gros Manseng, 16% Viognier, and 11% Sauvignon Blanc. For that reason, it can only be sold as “Vin de France”, even though it comes entirely from du Tertre, a classified growth in Arsac (AOC Margaux).
In fact, this white proved to be more of a curiosity than a fine wine. It was rather hard to pin down and was somewhat tired even at 6 years of age. Still, it was an enjoyable discovery.
We sat back and tried to name all the white wines produced in Margaux and came up with chx. Margaux, Cantenac Brown, Palmer, Prieuré Lichine and, of course, du Tertre.

There seems to be a certain amount of revisionism going on about recent great vintages. 2000 was much heralded, made out to be the bee’s knees, and inevitably labelled the “vintage of the century” (already…). However, preferences are now being voiced for 2005, 2009, and 2010. Who’s right? As usual, vintage ratings need to be nuanced, not only based on Left Bank/Right Bank criteria, but also the performance of individual estates.
Be that is it may, I enjoy the 2000 great growths tremendously, and find that at age 21 most are drinking well now.
Anyway, these two heavy hitters from Pomerol have a loyal following and I was delighted with both of them.

Vieux Château Certan is owned by the Belgian Thienpont family who also have their fingers in several other Bordeaux pies, including the rare and famous Le Pin. Unassuming Alexandre Thienpont is a perfectionist who has done much to enhance the estate’s reputation.
2000 VCC showed extremely well in August 2021, and most of us around the table felt that it was on its plateau, feeling that, although it will be enjoyable for years to come, it is as good now as it ever will be. Appearing older than the Trotanoy, it featured a divine bouquet with spicy notes and complex, ethereal aromatics along with the inevitable hint of truffle. On bouquet alone, 2000 VCC probably edged out Trotanoy of the same vintage. But as we shall see, Totanoy has not said its last word… Anyway, 2000 VCC’s innate elegance came through on the palate as well, but in a, dare I say, feminine, Margaux-like way. We enjoyed the wine with grilled veal chops and chanterelle mushrooms, but I could see how a wine like this could partner the very greatest creations of French cuisine due to its tremendous class. The aftertaste was fresh, soft, and evanescent, like the bouquet.

We did well to taste 2000 Trotanoy after the VCC because the former was a much bigger wine. If we believe what’s printed on the labels, alcoholic degree does not explain everything here. The nose of the Trotanoy was very concentrated with sweet black fruit and earthy overtones. It was quite seductive, if more obvious than the VCC. 2000 Trotanoy was a revelation on the palate, with a wonderful velvety texture and plenty of body and richness. I might allocate demerit points based on an impression of alcohol, but also give this a fair chance of integrating with further age. However, the wine clearly will always be imposing – not that this precludes the refinement one expects from top tier Pomerol. The aftertaste was long and powerful.

The bottom line is that the competition between these two Pomerols was a draw. That being said, the same match in ten years’ time would probably yield different results, in my opinion.
For what it’s worth, here is the area under vine of three famous Pomerol estates:
Pétrus: 11.5 hectares
Trotanoy: 7 hectares
Vieux Château Certan: 14 hectares
Trotanoy’s second wine is called L’Espérance
VCC’s second wine is La Gravette.
Both are good value for money.
Never heard of a second wine for Pétrus…

Best regards,
Alex R.

Alex, you win the weekend for the best tasting and notes, wow! I love love love both of these two estates, but with pricing, they really become almost special occasion wines, to be matured and revered for sure. I had the 2000s and 1998s of both of these over the past year or so. Both excellent vintages, but with a definite nod to 1998. The Trotanoy was my favorite in both vintages but barely, just barely.

I own a fair bit of VCC but hardly any Trotanoy. I really need to remedy that but these babies are now pushing $300. The second label of VCC is quite good, I buy it as well, but the cepage has less cab franc than the main label. I’ve never had the second label for Trotanoy. I’ve often joked that Trotanoy is the second label for Petrus, both so rich and exotic while the spline of red vein acidity keeping them fresh and structured. VCC is the more classic.

I have not tried anything beyond 2014, but both wines excelled in that wonderful vintage. I ended up buying another 6-pack of the VCC 2014 on Mark’s nudgings and ruminations. And as of early last year, you could find it for $150, which is around half of the 2015/2016 price.

[AKR]

Impressive wines, and thanks for the comments on the blanc du Tertre.

I've still got that (empty) Imperial of Trot in my garage, from that early aughts BWE confab!

[greatbxfreak]

Trotanoy 2000 was among the best wines in my Trotanoy vertical last year in March.

I have Trotanoy 2000, 2010, 2016, 2017 and 2018 in my cellar, one bottle of each. 2019 and 2020 are purchased en primeur, one bottle of each. I also managed to buy 2 bottles of 1946 Trotanoy chateau bottled this year. 330 Euros for both bottles. 1946 is my birth year.

Alex - those two bottles came from your cellar?

I have only a few vintages of VCC - 2005 at 140 Euros, 2008 at half that price and 2016 at 280 Euros.

[Comte Flaneur]

I was there and it was a very generous gesture of Alex to open these two splendid wines, which he served blind. They were both clearly top drawer. The first seemed left bank to me and probably Pauillac, and possibly Mouton. Both Tomas, another taster there, and I thought they were both lefties, though I thought the second wine could be a rightie, and I suggested Dominus, which can taste like a right bank. Sera the Japanese woman then announced that she thought they were both right banks. Spot on! Sera has ‘previous’ in this regard at the last dinner we met her several years ago now, picking out wines and grape varieties, while we were barking up the wrong trees. She will soon become Japan’s second MW. Both of these 2000 righties were outstanding, and of first growth quality, and it was difficult to choose a favourite. I have had then both before, and surprisingly to me the VCC was the more evolved of the two. But both were drinking very well even though each had plenty of time in hand.

Alex also hosted an Italian wine dinner for when I arrived last Sunday night. The main event was a Tuscany (home side, Sangiovese) vs Piedmont (away side, Nebbiolo) event and the home side won 2-0. The first wine was an Antinori Chianti Classico Riserva ‘Tignanello’ 2017, which was surprisingly excellent, which perhaps explained its ~50 euro price tag. It was true to the Sangiovese cherry pit stone signature and was light on its feet. The Sesti Brunello 2010 which followed was in a higher league, with more depth, length and complexity, even if it was starting to get a little warm. The Nebbiolos did not impress. The Pio Cesare Barbaresco Il Bricco 2014 had hard tannins, and needed more time, while the Gaja Dagromis Barolo 2012 was conspicuously over-oaked, clunky and out of sorts. Not pleasant at all. The Roagna Barolo Pira 2012 was the pick of the Nebbiolos but by the time it came on stage it was already struggling as it was already up to room temperature, which was probably at least 75F. In my experience Barolos, and Nebbiolos more generally, perhaps more than any other wine, tend to become grumpy and not show well at warm temperatures. But I suspect that the disappointing showing of the Nebbiolos was not solely a function of temperature.

On the Monday night the theme was 2011 Burgundy. As on the Tuesday night for the two Pomerols it was unseasonably cool which certainly helped. On that refreshingly cool Monday night we compared two 2011 red burgundies, the Grivot NSG 1er Cru Boudots was a present to Alex and myself from Antoine, whom I stayed with one night in Provence before the 400 mile drive to Bordeaux. The other, a Taupenot-Merme Chambolle Combe d’Orveau, was slow to open but when it did it was floral and spicey with a fine texture in the mid-palate. It was, however, outshone by the outstanding Grivot, which had much more going on than the T-M, with alluring black fruits allied to earthy and mineral notes, a description which hardly does the wine justice. A complete and satisfying red burgundy from a useful vintage drinking really well.

[Comte Flaneur]

For some reason this is the only photo the system allows me to attach:

[Blanquito]

You are drinking well, gentlemen. Those of us on the Medoc side of the pond have our work cut out for us to match such exalted Pomerols, in DC, in just over 5 and a half weeks from today (I am giddy just typing that, the Convention is nigh!). I think a Pomerol sub-theme for DC ‘21 would be a great addition— we never drink enough Pomerol, but who does?

How is visiting France right now? Has the Delta variant made things worse since Howard’s visit? Things trending better or worse in the old country?

[jal]

For some reason this is the only photo the system allows me to attach:

B165BD29-C58C-4774-BA19-8587F6D1ACB1.jpeg

I put a 3mb limit per photo, Ian. It used to be 256k which was too low. Without a limit, we would overwhelm the posts with huge photos, so try to shrink your pics a bit.

[jal]

Ian, I increased the size allowed for each photo to 4mb. Hopefully, that'll help.

[Comte Flaneur]

Thanks Jacques, this works now:

[Comte Flaneur]

[jal]

Thanks for the notes guys, what a great time, Alex and Christine are wonderful hosts.
Some quick comments.
I am not familiar with Taupenot Merme but Combe d'Orveaux is my second favorite Chambolle 1er after Amoureuses.
I like Grivot's wines but they are a little hefty for me.
Gaja is an acquired taste that I have not acquired yet, for the price, it's an easy pass.
The Marchese Antinori Chianti is a perennial favorite. Too bad the constant name change is confusing, at least the label doesn't change. I'm surprised it is so expensive in Europe, here it goes for about $40.
I love Roagna. Nice. Like you, Ian I prefer Barolos in colder weather. Tuscany vs Piedmont, only in wine can Fiorentina beats Juventus, and then only in warmer weather
Jill loves La Grande Dame, I am not a fan of the style but I appreciate the effort of the winemakers to make it consistently rich and powerful.
About the Bordeaux, great tasting! And pairing Pomerol with veal chops and chanterelles sounds heavenly.
I will look for the 2nd wines of VCC and Trot.

[stefan]

Great wines, great dinner (Lucie and I are lucky to have been hosted by Alex and Christine), and, most importantly, great company.

I did not realize that Trotanoy is so much smaller than Petrus. Petrus' production is only about 20% more than Trotanoy's and the latter produces L’Espérance as well.

[marcs]

I could contribute a 2001 Vieux Chateau Certan to our DC event, a good 20th anniversary wine. Maybe also a 2011 VCC as well for the decade vertical? Surprised the 2000 is drinking so well as a 2004 Joel and I had about 6 months ago was quite shut down.

Perhaps my best auction score of 2020 was a case of 2009 Trotanoy at $236 per bottle. Haven’t touched any yet but they should keep me company into old age.

Speaking of 2011, it seems like that vintage in Burgundy may be underrated? People were classing it with 2004 and there is a major price discount compared to surrounding vintages

[JoelD]

On the Monday night the theme was 2011 Burgundy. As on the Tuesday night for the two Pomerols it was unseasonably cool which certainly helped. On that refreshingly cool Monday night we compared two 2011 red burgundies, the Grivot NSG 1er Cru Boudots was a present to Alex and myself from Antoine, whom I stayed with one night in Provence before the 400 mile drive to Bordeaux. The other, a Taupenot-Merme Chambolle Combe d’Orveau, was slow to open but when it did it was floral and spicey with a fine texture in the mid-palate. It was, however, outshone by the outstanding Grivot, which had much more going on than the T-M, with alluring black fruits allied to earthy and mineral notes, a description which hardly does the wine justice. A complete and satisfying red burgundy from a useful vintage drinking really well.

Looks like a great lineup Alex, I'm glad to hear the the 2000 VCC is drinking well again, as I had heard that it had shut down the last few years. I'm hoping by the time I open my bottle in 3-5 years that it will be singing again.

Ian, I had that 2011 Grivot Aux Boudots about a year ago and it was awesome right out of the gate. Great complexity, dark fruit and balance. It did however fall off a bit after 1-2 hours open in bottle. After that experience I nabbed all three bottles of the 2014 that I could find at around $105. I think it will show well in that vintage as well. I love Grivot in general.

[marcs]

Speaking of Grivot and Combe d’orveau, I have 8 bottles of the 2015 Grivot Combe D’Orveau — I had a couple of bottles out of the case early on and they were amazingly lush, open, and hedonistic but have since closed up, going to wait a few years on the rest

Also have some Grivot Vougeot and V-R Bossieres in town, maybe to bring to some of our BWE dinners

[JoelD]

Speaking of Grivot and Combe d’orveau, I have 8 bottles of the 2015 Grivot Combe D’Orveau — I had a couple of bottles out of the case early on and they were amazingly lush, open, and hedonistic but have since closed up, going to wait a few years on the rest

Also have some Grivot Vougeot and V-R Bossieres in town, maybe to bring to some of our BWE dinners

I was actually going to mention. Thats how you and I met Marcus, fawning over the 2015 Grivot Clos Vougeot at the Zachys Bordeaux tasting. That was my intro into the great BWE land, more or less.

[marcs]

I remember it well! David was there as well, great evening, and yes it was the night that turned me on to Grivot, at some considerable pocketbook cost! I also remember wondering if you were going to sell me something (you mentioned you were in business I think), but you turned out to be a 100% authentic crazed wine fanatic LOL. My big recruitment coup for BWE since you represent our young blood.

Thinking about bringing a 2010 Grivot Clos Vougeot to the Friday dinner, it's got a great rep and not sure the 2015 is ready to go yet.

[JoelD]

I remember it well! David was there as well, great evening, and yes it was the night that turned me on to Grivot, at some considerable pocketbook cost! I also remember wondering if you were going to sell me something (you mentioned you were in business I think), but you turned out to be a 100% authentic crazed wine fanatic LOL. My big recruitment coup for BWE since you represent our young blood.

Thinking about bringing a 2010 Grivot Clos Vougeot to the Friday dinner, it's got a great rep and not sure the 2015 is ready to go yet.

Didn't know David was there but glad I got to meet him at that Dec '19 burg tasting. That 89 Huet still amazes me. I picked up a couple bottles.

And I would be Very interested to try that Grivot as I've been thinking of buying some of the 2010 actually.

PS, sorry for highjacking this great thread Alex and Ian!

[DavidG]

Yeah, that Grivot was the one Burg at the Zachys DC tasting that really tempted me. The price helped me avoid plunging down that rabbit hole.

[JoelD]

Yeah, that Grivot was the one Burg at the Zachys DC tasting that really tempted me. The price helped me avoid plunging down that rabbit hole.

Were there other burgs at that Zachy's tasting? The Grivot was so good that I don't even remember. I wonder if it was in a pre shut down phase or if it's so good that it never will.

Happy I was able to pick up a bottle of the 2014 @180 all in. (Although it isn't supposed to be as good as the 2015)

And starting to feel that I may have missed out on the 2010 @ around 280. Hopefully I get to taste some of Marcus's sometime!

I think there were a few but like you, for me they were just background noise.

[marcs]

Kind of vulgar to to talk prices, but what the hell…I was able to get a couple of bottles of both the 2010 and 2015 at $240/bottle back in 2019, shortly after the Zachys event. They’ve since gone up to around $300 give or take in the US — less of an increase over the past two years than a lot of Burgundy has seen