Hello, I'm new here and would like some advice on investing

[adrianvincent]

Hello,

My name is Adrian, I have been living in France for the last 7 years and have built a nice collection of Bordeaux. I enjoy drinking wine and watching my collection grow however I do find the hobby rather expensive. I was thinking about investing in wine on BBR so that I could sell on bottles to pay for my drinking and maybe make some money to buy more expensive wines... and have my collection grow that way.

I know everybody recommends buying only the top class wines like Ch. Margaux, Lafite, Latour etc... but just how hard is it to get your hands on a case of 12 75cl bottles from these chateaux en primeur? What should I be expected to pay out for a 12 bottle case of Carruades de Lafite, or Haut Brion en primeur?

Do you guys have any suggestions on how I should go about investing, do wines sell quickly on BBR?


Thank you

Adrian

[DavidG]

Hi Adrian, welcome aboard.

It's not that hard to get your hands on cases of first growths en primeur, but it is next to impossible to get the first tranche price as quantities released are miniscule. They are testing the market. Like trying to get in on the ground floor of a hot IPO.

If you look at the "'09s are not selling well" thread here you will see that some of us feel that the rapid price appreciation one has been able to rely upon by buying Bordeaux futures may be a thing of the past. And that some of us are wondering if there is a bubble in Bordeaux pricing ready to burst.

In my opinion, the immediate appreciation is probably gone from the system forever. But there may still be significant opportunity in buying the first growths, Petrus, etc. if one is willing to hold them 5-10 years past release. However, that exposes you to the risk of a bubble bursting.

Bottom line, the best advice I can give you is...

...don't take investment advice from me.

[JonoB]

Generally I advise people not to invest in wine, but to buy to drink. If you end up something something expensive enough to sell, then that is your decision to make.

Getting first growths at original prices is hard. If you are willing to sit for at least 10 years and pay for storage then it can be worthwhile.

A riskier option is to buy wines that are popular and people buy to drink, like GPL, Duhart & Pontet (in the past), and a whole list of others. It is more risky and you need to buy in quantity to make significant returns, but like many on here I think there is a massive bubble waiting to burst.

I also wouldn't simply look to BBR but other avenues as well.

Get and in bond account (Seckfords is the cheapest for storage) and have everything sent there from various merchants.

A list of good ones to look at for EP:

BBR
Justerini & Brooks
Farr Vintners
Genesis Wines
Bordeaux Index
Seckfords

For value:
The Sampler
WineBear

There are a whole host of other good merchants!
For whatever you want, when you want it (so long as available) you could use a broker or consultant. Someone like myself.

[adrianvincent]

Hello and thank you for the replies guys,

Well I don't want to make money out of wine as such (as a living), I just want to make enough to be able to buy more wine without dipping into my pocket all the time . I do realize how much wine has gone up in price over these last few years, and I still don't understand the pricing in the UK, Ch Brane Cantenac 2004 retails at my local supermarket here in France at €22, on the internet ad through brokers they all seem to be around the €50-60 mark, Lynch Bages 2005 45 euros - at intermarche..... again big differences in price.

An over-inflated bubble about to pop doesn't bother me too much as long as I don't lose too much on the wine I buy, I just want to watch my virtual cellar (in a bonded warehouse) grow and grow for the next 20 years without putting much into it hahaha, well at first yes but with the aim of getting my original investment back and having lots of wine stored that I didn't have before for drinking, and funding future purchases. I won't be happy until I have around 600 bottles paying for themselves.

Adri un Vin cent percent accro

[JonoB]

Adrian... If for drinking, then buy stuff locally (unless you are tempted to open it ).

Pricing is a mystery and mainly based in fantasy for my mind. If you buy things to drink, then don't buy first growths. Use the buy three cases and drink one or two system (depending on how much return you get on the money). In the past you could do this and only ever drink first growths, but you can still do it and make enough for your drinking to be self funded by buying anything that has more than just a small demand!!

[adrianvincent]

Well the only problem for me is I travel frequently and don't have adequate storage for a large wine collection, I'm gonna go ahead and start buying when the 2010 stock comes on the market in the next few months and I would be tempted to drink it