Advice needed from Tom and other Italian wine lovers

[sdr]

For the last 20+ years, my entire Italian wine collection consisted of - zero bottles. Never really liked the stuff; too thin, too acidic (as in Chianti). An occasional bottle of Bruno Giacosa or Gaja at a store tasting or wine seminar was just enough to show me I was wrong. But with so much Bordeaux and Burgundy to buy, plus the occasional Cal Cab, I never felt the omission.

But recently, a really good Italian restaurany has opened nearby, yet another from the Todd English empire (Olives, Boston, and most of the rest of the world), da Campo Osteria (http://www.dacampofl.com/). There's a mix of very traditional as well as some more modern items (the fig and prosciutto pizza is fantastic). Neither Burgundy nor Bordeaux seems the right match there.

So, what I'm looking for is a brief list of nice Italian wines currently available (or soon to be) under $100/bottle. The second qualification is that they should be drinkable now and not for long term aging. I'm thinking one way to ease the transition for my francophile palate would be to start with the Super Tuscans. I just bought a couple of bottles of Tenuta Guado al Tasso ('04 and '05) since even I had heard of it. I know the '04 Brunellos are in or on the way.

Any ideas?

~stuart

[Comte Flaneur]

Stuart

I think the crash of 08 exposed some Italian wines as being a bit over-priced and over-hyped. Guado (60% can, 30% merlot + syrah) is a modern-style wine, which I used to like but have gone off it. I wouldn't buy it now. Here is my 2c (I only know Tuscany and Piedmonte)

Tuscany

There are a lot of good chiantis out there - Fontodi , Felsina and Ruffino (discussed here a few weeks ago) - Castello Di Ama is great but v pricey
Brunellos - I like Caparzo, and in 04 Argiano and Il Pogione are very good...Salvioni is v good but >$100
Rossos (di Montalcino) - generally good value and a lot of juicy fun relative to big brother brunellos
Super-Tuscans - I like Petrolo Torrione - lot of the other stuff is expensive and I haven't bothered to keep up with each new one - but to be fair, the first S-Ts: Sassicaia is very good now, as is Tiganello...they have a great track record of being able to age well...Castello Dei Rampolla Sammarco is a perennial favourite

Piedmonte

So many great and good wines...an embarrassment of riches

I will just mention the producers I have bought recently (mainly barolo) - Burlotto, Cavallotto, Ceretto (ubiquitous), Pio Cesare (even more so - the 2004 was in the top ten in the WS top 100...), Clerico, Aldo Conterno (supremely elegant), Giacomo Conterno (arguably the pinnacle - his Cascina Francia is not his trophy - that is Monfortino - but is actually good value when you can get it under $100), Einuadi, Feyles (v rare), Massolino, Ratti, Sandrone

Many other good and famous producers not mentioned I would say this is the most exciting wine region in the world.

Hope this helps

Ian

[stefan]

Stuart, the famous super Tuscans, such as Sassicaia and Tiganello, indeed are good, but personally I would rather buy Bordeaux. Branching out from Bordeaux, I would suggest Brunello di Montalcino, of which there are many good ones. The 2001s are great, if you can find them, but still very young, and the 1999s are pretty good and more forward. 2004s are definitely worth a try, but they are hard to drink now for someone who likes properly aged Bordeaux. As Ian mentioned, the baby Brunellos (Rosso di Montalcino) are worth trying as they can be drunk young and give a hint of the greatness of Brunello di Montalcino even if they are more fruit driven.

stefan

[Tom In DC]

Hey Stuart,

I'm in pretty deep as far as vini d'Italia is concerned, so I may not be the best person to answer this question from a "sticking a toe in the water" perspective (...paging Pappdoc... call for Pappa...) but that won't stop me from trying!

The Comte covered the high ground pretty well, but he doesn't get full points as he must not have read the question! I also agree with stefan that the "aia's" (the Bordeaux blends such as Sassiacaia, Solaia, Ornelaia, etc.) -- while terrific wines (and all residents of our cellar) -- aren't sufficiently different from Bordeaux and/or California cabs and merlots to entice a Francophile.

Sangiovese in Italy -- the main grape in Chianti and the only (legal) grape in Brunello di Montalcino -- makes acid-driven wine, so it might be hard to find examples that won't remind you of your "too thin, too acidic" experiences. Many of the original "Super-Tuscans" came from Chianti producers who wanted to make a better wine that the region's regulations allowed. When Chianti required a mixture of grapes, including at least 10% white grapes, these producers took the bold step of making 100% sangiovese wines, often aged in small oak, which could only be identified as vino da tavola, the most basic of Italian table wine designations. Many of these are in fact big, rich wines that leave the typical lean-and-mean Chianti profile far behind. Some bottlings to look for are Felsina's Fontalloro, Fontodi's Flaccianello, Podere il Palazzino's Grosso Senese, and Barone Ricasoli's Casalferro. All of these develop with age but meet the criteria of drinking well on release and being priced under $100.

stefan's suggestion of Brunello from 1999 is a good one, and many of the wines should still be available at or below $100. You could also look for BdM from 1995 and 1993. You should focus on the more fruit-driven producers, such as Altesino, Banfi, Caparzo, Casanova di Neri, Gaja's Pieve Santa Restituta, and Uccelliera. Valdicava makes a beautiful Brunello that appeals to cabernet palates but is beyond the $100 limit; however, their Rosso di Montalcino (usually young vines, second-use barrels, etc.) is often as good as many other producers' Brunello!

There's just no getting around the fact that Nebbiolo really needs age to show well. Given that, I'd look for Barolo and Barbaresco from 1998, or better still 1993 and some 1995's to get ready-to-drink wines that will reflect the grape and the place. Look for wines from Vietti, Aldo Conterno, Corino, Grasso, Einaudi's basic Barolo (his cru's are too oaky for my taste), Ratti, and even Roberto Voerzio should be in your price range in '93 and '95. You could also look for Nebbiolo d'Alba with some age on it, pretty much from the same producers but you could add Giacosa to the list. You should still look for 7 to 10 years in the bottle, so maybe from 2001 back...

OK, so we've hit Tuscany and the Piedmont...

...to be continued...

[Michael-P]

Some 7 or 8 years ago I was at a Christies London wine auction and had just won a lot of Bordeaux. The next lot was a dmag of Einaudi 85 and it must have been at no reserve because it seemed absurdly low priced for a dmag of anything and had little interest in the room. Knowing nothing about Barolos despite my last name and 50% Italian heritage, I threw my hand up and won it.

When I had a dinner party at my place to share it, as openning large formats are always fun at dinner parties, with back ups of Bordeaux and CalCab in case it was plonk, it was pretty amazing juice. And accordingly made it one of my more memorable buys. That got me to occassionally buying a few bottles of Barolos here and there, but I still almost always reach for the Bordeaux unless there's some particular reason. And I haven't found any 85 Einaudi at auction at a reasonable price since.

I think SF-Ed + Lisa and I had a couple of older (67? 71?) Barolos once and one was very nice, the other just drinkable. Sorry, I don't have the details....

[jal]

Stuart,

You who like aged Burgundy would really appreciate Barolos or Barbarescos. They are imho more similar to Pinot Noir than different. Even older single vineyard Produttori di Barbaresco are delicious and I found some 1988-89-90 a few months ago for less than $100.

I find some of the aia Super Tuscans (Sassicaia, Solaia, Orenlaia) really delicious and bright. I hate comparing them to Bordeaux, though. Chiantis, even young ones from 2004 and 2006 are drinking very well but will get even better with age. The names Ian and Tom mentioned more than cover the essentials. My personal favorites from 2004 are Felsina Rancia and Marchese Antinori Riserva.

[PappaDoc]

Tom, and Jacques made excellent suggestions. The 2004 Fontalloro is drinking well even though it will be better in three to five years. It's worth sampeling a btl to see if you like the style, and sells for about $40.00. If you can find a 97 or 99 Fontalloro, they are both beautiful and in the early stages of maturity.

2004 Marchese Riserva Chainti from Antinori is in a sweet spot now and sells for about $25.00. I don't care for the Peppoli (merlot in the blend) as it's a little too modern for me. The Marchese is more traditional.

I drank a 1978 Produturi "Montestefano" Barberesco last Dec that was totally singing. I got it on Wine Bid for $125.00, I'd buy it again! The 85s from them are ALL top notch and under $100.

I'm with these guys on "I'd rather have Bordeaux" than Super Tuscan that has Cabernet or other French varitals. I do like some Merlots form Umbria as an exception Galatrona Petrola 1998 is gorgeous.

Try D'Angelos Aglianico del Vulture from Basilicata. Aglianico is a grape varity brought from Greece by the the Etruscans in pre-Roman times. It is a different clone than the Agianico grown in Campania (Taurasi). For me, the Aglianicos from Basilicata mature sooner as the Clone from Campania has smaller bunches and is more tannic. D'Angelos Riserva should cost about $25.00 and drinks well in 7-10 years Taurasi costs considerably more and takes at least 15 years to open up, but will live 50 in a great year. Taurasi is nicknamed "The Barolo of the South" and is probably the most regal wine south of Tuscany.

I'm not a fan of Amarone, with all respect to Tom and Jim. I find them too raisiny, almost Australian Syrah in some cases, with residual sugar. I have enjoyed some Bertani (restrained) but have had Dal Forno and Quintarelli (I do like the Valpolicella very much!)about six times and was always underwhelmed. It is totally a matter of taste, as I'm not crazy about Zinfandel but do recognize the quality in the best examples.

Lastly I tasted about 40-50 2004 Brunello and I prefer the 2001s, 99s and 97s. Carpazo"La Casa" is great, Uccaleria made thier best ever, Il Poggione, and about four or five others are outstanding!

[dstgolf]

Stuart,

Great advice above. I'm a reverse convert when it comes to most Italian wines. It's the region that I cut my wine collecting teeth on with a good friend almost solely dedicated to Italian wines hooking me on to Sassacaia and Tignanello. Hands down any Sassacaia gets blown away by Bordeaux routinely at tastings with or against Bordeaux. Certainly can be a very nice wine but doesn't have the depth or complexity. Tig has been variable with the last great vintage tried being 97. Have been disappointed since and not sure if it's the wine or my palate changing.

I still have about 150-200 bottles in my cellar that I have difficulty getting through since my wife is even more put off Italians than I Every time I pull a Brunello,Barolo and even worse Chianti she cringes. There are some Brunellos that I still like (Campogiovani and Argiano) are two that we can still enjoy.
Agree with the Marchesi for Chianti and would add Monsanto as pretty good preferring the less expensive Classico than the Il Poggio.Ricasoli makes some good Chiati and I enjoy the Brolio but not fond of their Classico.Still hard to find a match for tomato sauce outside of the Sangiovese that helps cut through the acidity.Castelferrro(Supertuscan) is pretty good but can't hold a candle to Bordeaux.
Can't find any enjoyment in Amarone with the raisiny,hot stewed prunes concoction. The Quinterelli in my mind is an expensive joke for wine snots to ooooh and aaaah over it maybe because of the price and not the wine in my opinion.

Anything Gaja is always good even from their inexpensive wines of which Promis comes to mind. Their top end Barolo/Barbaresco stable are very good but overpriced and I'd certainly trade dollar for dollar Bordeaux.

Barolos tend to require too much bottle aging to get their benefit and are an almost stay away especially for short term consumption.

Sorry about the rambling but trying to do this between cases today. Thought that I had more time.

Danny

PS Campo Osteria was enjoyed by all this Spring following Stuarts recommendation. Enjoyed the tableside fresh mozarrella combos.

PSS If a date for Chicago can be nailed down soon maybe I can book off in advance and an Italian night would be fun with high end aged Italians to get things going might be nice. I have some older Sassacaia and Gaja that would be fun to share.

[Michael-P]

Danny:

I like the idea of an Italian night in Chicago, so count me in. Although it pains me to give up the potential for another Bordeaux night....

[sdr]

Thanks for all the terrific suggestions. Fantastic wealth of information.

It sounds like I need to try some of the better Chiantis, especially from '04, '01, '99 and '97. I'm guessing the ones you mention are not the bottles that are wrapped in a straw basket. Then, focus on the fruitier Brunellos from the same vintages from the producers you recommend. I like the idea of sticking with the traditional Italian grape varieties, so super Tuscan maybe not the way to go. Barolo and Barbaresco less likely to be enjoyable young since they are nebbiolo based, but I'll try a couple to get a feel for them, especially if I can find some older ones.

~stuart

[stefan]

Sounds like a good strategy, Stuart. Our tastes are fairly similar, so you may well end up doing as I do: using Italian wines as a change of pace rather than a staple, most often to be drunk with Italian food and dishes with tomato sauce.

stefan

[Comte Flaneur]

Stuart - in addition to Jacques's chianti (see other thread), one wine I would highly recommend is the Caparzo Brunello dM 1997, either the straight green label or the deluxe version, La Casa. Today I bought a six pack of the green label at 26 pounds a bottle, on sale here in London, slightly over $40.

[dstgolf]

Careful with many 97 Brunellos. We've found many to be over the hill and completely unenjoyable. Antinori Pian del Vigne comes to mind as being dead having had several bottles over the last few years from different sources. At least 5-6 other producers also have proved well beyond their prime however others have been excellent. Certainly after all of the hype regarding the 97 vintage we have been underwhelmed by the patchiness of the vintage and lack of staying power.

Danny

[Comte Flaneur]

Danny I have had some mixed experiences too...my Talentis went all weird on me...but the Caparzo I tried a couple of weeks ago was sensational, and still quite young...it contained all the best hallmarks of brunello...esp. dense cherry stone sangiovese fruit...that one I could recommend unreservedly.

[JCNorthway]

I have heard of some similar experiences with 97 Brunellos being seemingly over the hill, which seems very unusual considering their typical aging curve. I drank thru more than a case of Val di Suga within 2-3 years of release just because it was enjoyable to drink young. But it eventually "hardened" on me so I am letting my last couple of bottles rest. Within the past year or two, I have tried individual bottles of Livio Sassetti Pertimali, Angelo Sassetti Pertimali, Ciacci Piccolomini, and Uccelliera, all of which I felt had years of life remaining.

Interestingly, to Comte's comment above about Caparzo, I recently opened my last bottle of 1995 Caparzo La Casa and it was fantastic - best bottle of the case. Understand that I bought this for $25/bottle on a closeout where the distributor's storage was suspect - hence the pricing. And I would say that 1 out of 3 bottles seemed tired and lacking in fruit to me, even with decanting to open them up. But that last one was a joy.

Jon