What’s your favorite vintage of la Lagune?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:07 pm

A board favorite, the highest classified chateau in the Haut Medoc, and a terrific bargain in the world dry red table wines.

I’ve had many vintages of la Lagune, stretching back into the 1960’s. For a while, the 82 was my favorite vintage, but my bottles of the 82 at least peaked around 2010. I had a wonderful bottle of the 85 recently— served blind, I thought it was a top drawer Graves. I’ve enjoyed many a bottle of the fine 86 la Lagune. I can’t recall having tried any Lagune from 90-99, though I won a bottle of the 95 recently on auction. The 04 was terrific on release.

But over the last 8-9 years, the best vintage by a wide margin of la Lagune that I’ve had has been the ‘78. I’ve had this wine 6-7 times including one a few weeks ago that was just terrific. It’s been fully mature over this stretch but shows no sign of fading.

What’s your favorite vintage?

Also, did the style change in 2005? The youngest I’ve tried was the 04, so I ask mainly because Parker started giving out scores of 95 in 2005, when he’d never gone above 92 in all the years prior.

William P · Post by **William P** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I thought the 1982 la La was special. It aged well also. I shared one with Arv when he moved back into town and that was a more than a few years ago.

Bill

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I too liked the 2004 La Lagune early on, then it went through a rough awkward stage, but it has now emerged beautifully.
Still very young, but displaying great structure and fruit.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:54 am

1982. The bottle of 1982 La Lagune who attended last year convention was glorious.

I really liked the 1995, very La Lagune, and claret.

I bought some 2016 and expect it would be great, as the 2015 at UGC was excellent.

Nic

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:34 am

It is hard to find a bad vintage of La Lagune. In 2013 La Lagune made a terrible La Lagune, but, recognizing that, they labelled it "Cabernet Sauvignon" (it contains no merlot). If you judge it as a cab it is not too bad; better at least than the other 2013 swill we tasted at BWE-2015. Even in e.g. 1987 La Lagune made a pleasant and true wine that was, of course, light. 1984 was less bad than the wine from most highly classified estates. 1992 was pleasant to drink and the 1993 had a wonderful nose. I have not drunk either recently.

Probably the best La Lagune is 1982. The good bottles are outstanding. 1978 is another one I love, but not all bottles have the ethereal bouquet that the really good ones have. I actually prefer the best 1978 to the best 1982, but then I put more emphasis on bouquet than most drinkers. 1979 is also fine but does not reach the highs that 1978 and 1982 do. I drank several cases of 1985, which I always preferred to 1986. 1989 and 1990 are great; it is hard to choose between them. I did not drink 1988 until the last few years. It is quite nice even if not among the better La Lagunes of the 1980s. 1983 is close to 1985 but more variable, at least in the last ten or so years. 1962 holds a special place in my heart as it provided Lucie and me our Bordeaux epiphany. I have not drunk it since the early 1980s, but it was still very good then, close in quality to the deeper 1961. 1966 has held up well. It was always better than the 1964, which was pretty good. 1967 and 1969 were good for the vintages. 1970 is a well structured wine. I think that for drinking now 1975 is better, though. The lighter 1976 I sourced a couple of years ago is surprisingly good now. I drank 1981 only once. Ian gifted me a bottle he bought at the Chateau in 2015. It was wonderfully fresh and appealing. You are in for a treat with the 1995, Patrick, as it is drinking well now. Early on it was less attractive. 2000 also was unappealing when it was younger, but the last few bottles we drank were very good even if not among the best La Lagunes. 1996 is completely different. It was so delicious young that I was worried, but it has held up wonderfully. We are into our third case of it. I should have bought more. 1998 and 1999 are just so-so for the estate. 2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008 are all OK but I think need more time. 2002 and 2003 are mature but still improving. The 2002 still has some hard edges that will smooth out in time. I own 2005 only in magnums that are sleeping and have not opened my case of 2009. I have only tasted more recent vintages. I don't see a big style change after 2005, but my drinking experience for them is limited.

I have a tough time rating La Lagunes. I guess my favorites among the mature but not really old* La Lagunes that I have drunk recently are 1982, 1978, 1996, 1985, and 1983, not that these are objectively better than some others, such as 1989 and 1990.

*That is, not older than my children.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:30 pm

I would have to say 1982 but I have had good bottles from 1970, 1975, 1978, 1989 and 1990.

William P · Post by **William P** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:22 pm

Has anyone tried the 2014 yet?

Bill

AlohaArtakaHoundsong · Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:47 am

The only one I've had (I think)--1983. (Although maybe Patrick poured the '88 once in Denver?).

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:22 am

Art, my CT notes say we had the 86 Lagune with Tom and locals in Denver in June 2010.

Winona Chief · Post by **Winona Chief** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:42 pm

Haven't had all that many vintages of La Lagune but I have had their 1982 many times and I like it a lot. So I guess that's my winner by default. The bottle of 1982 I opened earlier this month in Minneapolis with Gary Rust was fully mature, maybe a little past peak but still showing very well. I do have a 1978 standing up, ready for consumption - need to give it a try soon.

Chris Bublitz

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:00 pm

My bottles indicate that the 78 will outlive the 82.

Not sure if it means anything, but I’ve seen lots of mid to high shoulder bottles of the 82 on auction for years. I never buy them, as pristine bottles of 82 Bordeaux should have better fills than that. Maybe a bunch of 82s were cooked at some point or the corks are leaky.

Mintonly · Post by **Mintonly** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:32 am

2014 is what i want to try now has anyone tried it yet?

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:22 pm

To all of need of recent TNs concerning La Lagune, f.i. 2014, please check this link:

http://greatbordeauxwines.com/chateau-p ... /la-lagune

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:31 pm

I think there is a typo on your note of the 2016 Izak...thanks for those notes...you can buy the 2016 here for £440 in bond...seems a bargain judging by your notes...

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:29 pm

Will go with the 90 though the 05 may be there one day. As Stefan said, the 2000 has improved and is quite pleasant. I've only had the 82 once so can't judge.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:24 pm

I enjoyed your notes Izak.

I found this passage in Izak’s profile notable given the change in scores given out to Lagune by many critics:
“[Caroline Frey] started to manage La Lagune after her parents bought this property in 2000. Caroline has steadily pushed the quality up, bought some more land and made a lot of improvements.”

So things have changed at Lagune since around 2000 or so, and based on the notes and scored from reviewers like Izak/Parker/Leve, many think for the better. I need to try a younger Lagune.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:08 pm

Comte/Ian,

Thanks for pointing out the typo, now it's corrected.

I bought 2016 La Lagune en primeur for app. 44 £ per bottle all taxes included and 2014 La Lagune en primeur for 30 £ per bottle!

It's 3rd Growth with great qpr!! I adore its wines!

Blanquito,

Caroline Frey took over the management in 2004 after having taken wine-education. 2005 was her second vintage and what a beautiful wine it is!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:23 pm

Izak, FYI:

Scroll to the bottom of this thread

https://wine-pages.com/community/thread ... 863/page-6

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:31 pm

Thanks Ian.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:32 am

I wish you guys would write about how lousy La Lagune is instead of driving up the price. Say that you agree with the distinguished Margaux winemaker who pointed out that La Lagune has lousy soil.

I don't mind BWEers knowing about La Lagune's quality, but your blogs are read by millions, including hundreds of thousands who have a lot of money and drink only wines recommended by you. Recommend that they drink Pavie. They won't know the difference.

William P · Post by **William P** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks Izak for your link.

Bill

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:59 pm

La Lagune sucks eggs!
Every vintage I've had has been thin, green and vegetal. Talk about supermarket swill, La Lagune hopes to be Grand Puy Lacoste when it grows up. In the meantime, Trump's North Carolina Cab runs circles around that imitation of a wine.

How's that, Stefan? Better?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:37 pm

Great, Jacques!

Now if can get Ian n Izak to put that on their blogs....

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:28 pm

La Lagune - yech, yuck...green and skinny, and pretentious overpriced dross and spoofulated Shiit...the worst of all worlds ...

(Am I forgiven?)

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:44 pm

All faux Lagune bashing aside, everything I’ve read recently makes me wonder if the La Lagune we once knew and loved is no more. This is not to say that the new Lagune isn’t good or even very good (or as some would maintain, even better!), but it sounds like it is different. A New-and-Improved La Lagune, a wine that Parker suddenly starts to give 95 points — after literally decades of handing it ‘only’ 85-92 pts — all coinciding with a new ownership committed to ‘ever better wines’. We’ve seen this movie before, and it’s not my preferred genre at all.

I sound like a reactionary. I’ll take Stefan’s word on this one, that the recent incarnation is still La Lagune.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:17 pm

What can one do? Global warming is making everything riper.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:25 pm

stefan - afaik I’d there was a new regimen it was around 2004 when Caroline Frey really took the reins and the investment cranked up. But when we visited the estate in 2015 I didn’t notice any distinctive regime change with the younger vintages. Patrick my impression is that this is quite a benign evolution with the emphasis more on quality than modernity for modernity’s sake.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:02 pm

Comte,

You're so right!

Blanquito,

You don't like changes? Parker has given many wines out of sudden 95 points.

Since Caroline's entrée, La Lagune has got more precision, more focus and of course more ripeness. But imho it's never been modern style wine and for me it's representing greatly it's soil and done it for years.

With more than half of Cabernet Sauvignon in the blend, La Lagune marries it well with Merlot.

Not to forget the contribution of La Lagune's talented cellar master, Maylis de Laborderie, 2017 is her fifth vintage.

Stefan,

Actually, Pavie has changed vinification and style since 2014 vintage. I talked to manager, da Costa last year during primeur, and he told me that they decided to leave the rich, alcoholic and extracted style Pavie had for years and go back to traditional style, Cuvaison was greatly shortened, amount of oak greatly decreased and they put more Cabernet in the blend/replant the vineyard with more Cabernet. When I told my collegaues among wine writers last year, that I found Pavie 2016 to be an elegant and stylish wine, they looked me with disbelief and thought I was drunk/s...../gone mad.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:01 pm

Actually, Pavie has changed vinification and style since 2014 vintage. I talked to manager, da Costa last year during primeur, and he told me that they decided to leave the rich, alcoholic and extracted style Pavie had for years and go back to traditional style, Cuvaison was greatly shortened, amount of oak greatly decreased and they put more Cabernet in the blend/replant the vineyard with more Cabernet. When I told my collegaues among wine writers last year, that I found Pavie 2016 to be an elegant and stylish wine, they looked me with disbelief and thought I was drunk/s...../gone mad.

I'm sure nobody would say it out loud, Izak, but what is your sense, is any of this connected to the departure of Parker?

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:25 pm

JimHow wrote:
Actually, Pavie has changed vinification and style since 2014 vintage. I talked to manager, da Costa last year during primeur, and he told me that they decided to leave the rich, alcoholic and extracted style Pavie had for years and go back to traditional style, Cuvaison was greatly shortened, amount of oak greatly decreased and they put more Cabernet in the blend/replant the vineyard with more Cabernet. When I told my collegaues among wine writers last year, that I found Pavie 2016 to be an elegant and stylish wine, they looked me with disbelief and thought I was drunk/s...../gone mad.
I'm sure nobody would say it out loud, Izak, but what is your sense, is any of this connected to the departure of Parker?

Or was it more connected to just get into Premier Cru Classe A by securing more Parker points? And now that they are there and Parker scoring no more, they want to go more traditional?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:35 pm

All faux Lagune bashing aside, everything I’ve read recently makes me wonder if the La Lagune we once knew and loved is no more. This is not to say that the new Lagune isn’t good or even very good (or as some would maintain, even better!), but it sounds like it is different. A New-and-Improved La Lagune, a wine that Parker suddenly starts to give 95 points — after literally decades of handing it ‘only’ 85-92 pts — all coinciding with a new ownership committed to ‘ever better wines’. We’ve seen this movie before, and it’s not my preferred genre at all.

I sound like a reactionary. I’ll take Stefan’s word on this one, that the recent incarnation is still La Lagune.

Amen, brother.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:37 pm

Not to forget the contribution of La Lagune's talented cellar master, Maylis de Laborderie, 2017 is her fifth vintage.

Maylis was one of the highlights, among many, of our 2015 BWE Bordeaux trip.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:40 pm

We see Maylis in this epic BWE visit to Chateau La Lagune in 2015:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3kZaUnaPF8

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:26 am

as I was digging out that La Lagune video I came across this incredible two-part "Jim How interviews Francois Audouse" interview, I just watched it, there is some absolutely incredible stuff in there, I haven't seen this since BWE Bordeaux 2015:

Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-zmrqiR8ME

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wrh23Wu3vA

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 am

Great vids with Francois.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:14 am

And a crazy BWE afternoon on the back deck of some North Carolina dudes, featuring BWEer Rob Dayton on the harp with a guest appearance from a guy named Jean Nicolas from Quebec....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5OdWz_uPnI

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:20 pm

Chateau Vin wrote:
JimHow wrote:
Actually, Pavie has changed vinification and style since 2014 vintage. I talked to manager, da Costa last year during primeur, and he told me that they decided to leave the rich, alcoholic and extracted style Pavie had for years and go back to traditional style, Cuvaison was greatly shortened, amount of oak greatly decreased and they put more Cabernet in the blend/replant the vineyard with more Cabernet. When I told my collegaues among wine writers last year, that I found Pavie 2016 to be an elegant and stylish wine, they looked me with disbelief and thought I was drunk/s...../gone mad.
I'm sure nobody would say it out loud, Izak, but what is your sense, is any of this connected to the departure of Parker?
Or was it more connected to just get into Premier Cru Classe A by securing more Parker points? And now that they are there and Parker scoring no more, they want to go more traditional?

I heard this elsewhere too, and I am convinced it has everything to do with Parker’s departure. I don’t think we have seen anything so cynical as the abrupt change in style at Pavie, which started with the 1998 vintage which you are drinking at the convention. If Pavie is indeed reverting back to a more traditional style this is exciting news because it has a great terroir. The irony is that Pavie might start deserving its first growth status.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:24 pm

....Which brings me back to a question I asked a while back:

Did we lose a generation or two of Bordeaux because of Robert Parker?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:37 pm

I don’t think so Jim. I think Pavie was more of an exception. Of course other estates went more modern perhaps in a less blatant way, but modernisation would have happened anyway. Perhaps if it wasn’t for Parker the 2005 vintage would not be so extracted, the 2009 vintage would not be so opulent and the 2010 would not be so alcoholic. May be. But they are still great wines that we want to own. But it is why I like the 2016 vintage more than any other, because it really seems to mark a clean break from the Parker era.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Chateau Vin,

I think you are being cynical and ironic!

To my knowledge Pavie don't rely without exception on Parker points, the are getting the same from Suckling, Neal Martin and others. Why is it a crime to revert to traditional style?? Henrique da Costa, present manager of Pavie has joined it in 2005, so he wasn't involved in 1998 and 2000 vintage. I believe the manager and the owner have discussed the change for a long time.

I don't like why people slate wine estates for something which happened before and don't give credit to wineries which try to make wines more approachable.

Yes, Pavie has exceptional terroir and got elevated not because of Robert Parker points, merely by its wine-facilities, soil, last 10 vintages tasted by independent commission, etc.

Have anybody on this forum tasted 2015 and 2016 Pavie? If not........!

Coming back to Lagune. I will visit it in April during primeur.