FRANCE 2020

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:23 pm

Would love this to be my first bd meet. Not sure how to keep the embers aglow on this idea as a newbie but if I can help in anyway would be happy to do so. I guess we do have time.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:25 am

Folks
I have not been to any of the prior events but would love to come if my disagreeable digestive system allows for it.
Can anyone give me an idea of the costs involved?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:44 pm

Claudius, here are the details from 2015.
>>
BWE FRANCE PACKAGE DETAILS

Included in Package:

1. Transportation around Bordeaux Chateaux for week of May
18th-22nd, including refreshments, etc.
2. Lunch and Dinner, including wines, for May 18th, 19th, 21st
and 22nd.
3. All paid tastings scheduled as part of program for 18th -
22nd
4. Miscellaneous items, including tips, gifts, tram tickets,
etc.

Total cost of package: $1400 inclusive

Excluded from package:

1. Meals in Paris
2. Transportation to Bordeaux
3. Hotel accomodation
4. Meals on Wednesday May 20th
5. Dinner on Sunday May 17th in Bordeaux
>>

Some of the best items were free and likely cannot be duplicated, and the cost for 2020 will likely be higher. Maybe Tim and/or Alex can give a reasonable guesstimate.

tim · Post by **tim** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:13 pm

Compared to 2015:

1. The exchange rate is more favorable to the dollar now than in 2015.
2. Many chateaux have begun charging for tastings. We only had one paid tasting last time, but I suspect many of them will require payment.
3. The cost of meals at the chateaux have probably gone up as demand has increased.

So I suspect we are still looking at around $300-$400 per day, including transport, two meals and incidentals, excluding hotel. Hotel will be from $100 to $150 per day I'm guessing.

This was the breakdown:

: bwe 2015 budget.jpg (37.18 KiB) Viewed 2439 times

Tim

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:46 pm

Where were we as far as picking a week, were we shooting for like the last week of April / first week of May?
Again, I'm for a lesser amount of days and lesser amount of chateaux per day.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:47 pm

What about the following:

Monday, April 27, 2020: Arrive in Bordeaux
Tuesday: April 28, 2020: Visit chateaux
Wednesday, April 29, 2020: Visit chateaux
Thursday, April 30, 2020: Visit chateaux
Friday, May 1, 2020: Visit chateaux
Saturday, May 2, 2020: Depart Bordeaux

This would give people the opportunity to come in earlier, hang out in Paris or whatever the weekend before and the weekend after, etc..
We could do a Monday evening welcome dinner in Bordeaux.
We could do 3-4 chateaux per day from Tuesday through Friday, at a little more relaxed pace, maybe one chateau in the morning and two in the afternoon. One of the best parts of France '15 was the leisurely lunches.

Does that create problems with school semester schedules Patrick? I wouldn't have any problem moving it back a week or two into May.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:09 pm

I can’t make a trip between 4/1-6/15, so I’ll move to observer status. Have fun BWE!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:51 pm

I was going to yell at you, blanquito, but then I scrolled back and noticed that you mentioned those dates in your first message, so I'll give you a break.

I mean, technically, I'm unavailable from 1/1 to 12/31, I have only four homicide cases and about 800 other things going on -- not as busy as the Ottawa doctor with 24 weeks of vacation per year who may or may not have prime tix to the Masters who needs notice 18 months in advance, mind you -- but I'm willing to work my schedule as best I can.

I mean, come on, dudes. I'm too old for bullshit. It's not like we are asking about your schedules the week after next. If you're serious about going to Bordeaux, we'd LOVE to hear from ya'. MAKE it happen, like I and numerous others do, EVERY year.

If not, that's fine too. Honestly, if you can't make it, I completely understand, no hard feelings.
But, I mean, if you want to hear about scheduling issues, I'm more than happy to brief you on my situation....

I've been attending BWE conventions for 20 years despite, I will submit to you, the most insane schedule of anyone on this site. If you REALLY want to attend these events, let us know. If not, please, don't take this personally, but don't waste my time. There comes a point when the rubber hits the road. I have MANY other things to focus my attention on.

Harry C. · Post by **Harry C.** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:17 am

I am definitely up for this. Greg has some health issues that I cannot commit him until closer to the time. So put me down for 1+?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:18 am

Awesome, Harry!
And I really hope Greg can make it, sorry to hear about his health.
Give him my best.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:40 am

Do you have a heavy teaching schedule April 1 - June 15, Patrick? I generally do not take off for a week when I am teaching a core course. I plan not to teach in the spring or maybe teach only a topics course for advanced graduate students.

March is a pretty good time in Bordeaux, I think. Right, Alex? Heat can be a problem in late April and early May, and is almost certain to be a problem later in May. As long as our bus has good AC things should be OK, but outdoor activities may not be so nice.

Lucie and I are keeping our calendars free until we know if and when BWE-Bordeaux-2020 will take place.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:51 am

March might be better for me, how does the second or third week look?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:53 am

[quote="JimHow"]
Wish I could say I am in but an upcoming master bedroom remodel will take all my available funds (and free time) for the next year or so.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:54 am

Will do, Racer Chris, should be 2020.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:15 am

I really want go, and I can pretty much make 9.5 months a year work, but my job doesn’t have normal vacation options. When teaching a full load, there’s no relief — but the rest of the time I have full flexibility to work from home, the road, at night. Conventions are different as only a long weekend, but France merits a full week off.

I totally get it if the majority wants an April or May date.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:49 am

I would like to delegate this project to Tim/Alex.
I tried to reach Tim last time we were in Paris but he wouldn't answer my calls when we were trying to find a seafood restaurant in the Moulin Rouge arrondissement, he may not even be in Paris by next spring for all I know, Alex we have relied on heavily in these matters, as for me, I'm just a country lawyer from Maine, I can't organize it. (We ended up finding this lovely little fish place through Yelp, the staff was so friendly.)
I hereby authorize Tim/Alex to pick a week along the lines of that Tuesday-Friday schedule I outlined above, any week, just tell me where to go as soon as possible, if you give me notice soon I will make sure my calendar is blocked off, whether I am in Maine or Alaska. As busy as my schedule is, I have like NEVER had a problem scheduling six months in advance.
Anyway...
That's the extent of my involvement in France 2020. Just tell me where to go. Or not.
Now, back to my studies on Deoxyribonucleic Acid.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:05 am

stefan
That sounds pretty reasonable.
I assume that you mean greenbacks but in any case, I have an unused pile of Euros in the safe, not spent on previous trips.
So can I put my name down with a caveat about internal health.
Wendy is asking for time off work in advance so we may be able to both make it.
I doubt that I will be able to take part in future events so this is likely to be a once-off chance.

I can easily fly into Bordeaux from Singapore - the flights are pretty cheap these days, and I'm used to getting around Bordeaux from various previous trips.
cheers
Mark

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:47 am

Jim, et al.

Not sure what circumstances that I wasn't able to answer your calls during your visit, I do apologize. Although not sure I would have been much help, I am so out of the Paris restaurant scene these days that I haven't a clue what to recommend anymore.

As for France 2020, as Jim mentioned, I don't know if I will be in France then. As of the moment, I am planning to move back to the US. It all depends on my current job and whether we get a round of investment this fall or not. But I would still plan to fly back if I can.

The past two years have been a bit tumultuous to say the least. Apart from the couple times when I've met BWE folks, I haven't opened any good bottles this year. And I haven't made a cellarable wine purchase in at least 18 months. Between family crisis, a difficult commute, work conflict, sick pets, a 2/3 salary cut from my previous job, a few minor health challenges, and uncertainty with the current job and job location, social activities have all but disappeared.

I still lurk here, and I participate in the politics section of another wine board, but beyond that I haven't really contributed much to the world of wine lately. I will help with France2020 any way I can. But given the turmoil in my life right now, not sure I can do as much as last time.

Cheers,

Tim

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:44 pm

Sorry to learn of your many problems, Tim. I hope your life stabilizes soon.

As BWE-Czar in 2015, Tim did a fantastic job, but it was obviously a lot of work for him. Alex did much of the local planning, including contacts with wineries and other places. That was also a lot of work. Basically it took these two people who had great expertise working very hard to make BWE-2015 a huge success. Ian and I were on the committee, but my role was very limited and Ian's pretty limited. Certainly I would not have been able to do ten per cent of what either Tim or Alex did even if I had put in as much work as they did.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:57 pm

Ouch Jim. Didn't your mother teach you that you'll get more accomplished with a tincture of honey. Life must be rough and if anyone understands burnout its me and maybe you should chill a little before lashing out at old friends. We are all getting older and have different sets of problems that we have to deal with. I'm sure you must feel wonderful for striking out at Tim and hearing he's been through hell the last while. I won't begin to talk about injuries,health issues, hospital/partnership issues that drive me crazy forcing me to continue to cut back to save my sanity. Maybe you should do the same instead of just talking about it. When you die of a heart attack stressing over someone throwing another brick through your front office window and wondering why I'll bet nobody will give a rats ass. Start thinking more about your own health and taking care of yourself because the stress shows in the comments on this board. Take care of yourself my friend before it's too late.

Tim,

I hope that things work out and there's nothing worse than stress/uncertainty in the work place to infiltrate through ones life. Hopefully you've got a solution on the forefront. If you want to chill for a bit on this side of the pond over a bottle of wine or two our door is always open.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:02 pm

I'm just giving you the business Danny, you are so sensitive.
You can sure dish it out but you don't take ribbing very well.
Life is too short to be so easily offended.

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Danny, I'm willing to give Jim a little slack on this one as he is really stressed about this Alaska case. With all of my challenges right now, I cannot imagine holding a man's life in my hands because he may have been wronged by a system that routinely falsely convicts people. Doctors and lawyers (especially criminal lawyers) deserve all the downtime they can get, as they routinely impact people's lives far greater than a software guy like me.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:47 pm

Tim - what is going on with your pets?

Our cat is having dry eyes. So she is supposed to be getting eye drops. Treatment plan is something she doesn't cooperate with. We try every few days, forgetting what it was like the last time.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:10 pm

Sorry Jim but this has been one miserable summer after falling off a ladder trimming a tree in May ripping up my back. 2 months unable to do anything mostly agonizing on a couch, chiro, physio and massage therapists through the ying yang and just starting to see the light of day starting to swing a golf club let alone walk has had me and not say the least about Danielle a little down because she has been bearing the brunt of my misery. Oh yes and then there has been a patient load with unrealistic partnership expectations and you say lighten up. Danielle's been dealing with an arthritis flair for a year just starting back on meds after being off secondary to complications and has trouble getting through a day. Being kicked when your down doesn't feel very good. I think you've been listening to Trump for too long and it's rubbing off. I can take take a joke with the best of them but when life seems collapsing around you just before retirement I don't need to have my nose rubbed in some successes as they seem so far from reality when life has thrown you a curve ball making one feel so vulnerable. Sorry to rant at a time when we're down but a little sensitivity goes a long way. Ribbing doesn't come off the same way through a blog as it does in person especially when you don't really know what's happening in ones life. We'll get over it once we heal physicically but when when you think your life is so tough others may just be going through a rougher patch than you think.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:13 pm

crazy fares to CDG

https://www.theflightdeal.com/2019/08/2 ... all-taxes/

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:26 pm

Arv, one cat passed on last year (he was old and sick so it wasn't a surprise). The other has diabetes, which means twice daily insulin injections. The challenge with that is that it is impossible to find someone to take care of her when I travel, as no one wants to be responsible for doing the injections. I used a cat hotel but it is always full. And I need to travel for my job. So... it's been pretty much a nightmare.

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:29 pm

Danny, sorry to hear of all the challenges. I understand completely. And my best to Danielle!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:26 pm

Danny, sorry to hear about your recent problems. Remind me to tell you how to protect yourself against yourself when you are getting old. Come to think of it, I should remind myself as I am still suffering from a hamstring pull that I got 1.5 months ago on the beach playing soccer with my 8 and 11 year old grandkids.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:44 am

Tim and Danny, hope you get trough all these unfunny issues quickly. Job uncertainty or serious injury aren't the thing you wish yo any of your friends. Myself too being on a slow pace since those 5 seconds on my right elbow in a fire pit... ansince August 5, serious home improvement going out so we're out of our house until 2nd or 3rd week of September, changing place often for staying (friends, my parents, MC parents) impacting fun, liberty and sleep. And now the kids going back to school...

I guess that the organization of a 2020 trip to Bordeaux seems to be a challenge. Choosing a week won't be easy and won't please everyone. Maybe I have an idea/proposal:

Comte Flaneur already wrote that a small group could be more manageable. Why not planing the same program, two weeks in a row (example last of March and first of April), for two smaller size BWEers groups? And a huge dinner all together in the weekend in between? Hat could help to have many attending, and maybe easier for the Châteaux. I'm just trying to think differently, to accomodate most of us.

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:22 am

When I write things here where I am acting like a dink I do so under the assumption that I have met almost everyone here so many times in person over the past 20 years and I assume that people know that, in reality, I'm really not a dink, that, surely, if I say something "mean" <rolls eyes> (ooh, that guy you have met so many times is SO mean!) here online, surely you know, based on your MANY interactions with me, that I am really not THAT mean? Thus, when I say, that Ottawa doctor takes off 24 weeks per year and still can't get to BWE conventions two out of every three times, it has absolutely nothing to do with how stressful my life is, it's like, hey, Danny, come on dude, this is Jimmy you talking to, yo, we trying to scedule this thing in France like 9 months from now, yo, just pay off one of your associates to cover for you for a few days, let's get this done, yo. I mean, come on, people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now....

I mean, we hang out in person and we all love each other, and yet if somebody posts something here on line, oooh, aaah, it takes on all kinds of dark significance. Pretty ridiculous. Lighten up, folks.

I don't like your suggestion, Nicola.

I say Tim/Alex pick four days in mid/late March, we do 3-4 chateaux from Tues-Fri, and we get it done, with as many BWEers who want to attend participating, whether it is 14 or 28. I know it can be done. It is not rocket science. You want to hear about a complicated project? Let me tell you about my Alaska murder case, which I will submit to you is like 100 times more complicated than organizing four nights in wine country. Jesus Christ. Should we call this off because we can't rent a fucking bus and schedule some wine tastings at a dozen chateaux?

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:37 am

tim wrote:Arv, one cat passed on last year (he was old and sick so it wasn't a surprise). The other has diabetes, which means twice daily insulin injections. The challenge with that is that it is impossible to find someone to take care of her when I travel, as no one wants to be responsible for doing the injections. I used a cat hotel but it is always full. And I need to travel for my job. So... it's been pretty much a nightmare.

Yes, a number of boarding places won't deal with ours anymore, but mostly because of her (ill)temper. It's hard to find trustworthy places.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:44 am

Jim - you are acting like a dink! These trips take a Herculean amount of effort to put together and I hope we can pull another one off. (And by "we" I mean other people than me.

)

Gail and I are in depending on the schedule. We don't have much planned yet for next year, but as AKR noted elsewhere we have spent a lot of time traveling this year!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:49 am

YOU are a dink Tom! So there! It's a project, for sure. It involves work, and phone calls, and a few emails, yes.

"Herculean".. ooh.. aahh.. No.

Please, Tom.

I appreciate all the hard work Tim and Alex put in. A significant amount of work, I have no doubt.

Let's not be ridiculous though. Hardly "Herculean." On line, I'm sure that will be translated into some sort of lack of gratitude for all the hard work that Tim and Alex put into organizing the France events. It has involved a TON of work over the past 20 years for me to maintain this site -- AND expense, by the way -- but i will tell you, running BWE has not been "Herculean" in my mind. It has been a project that I have run for 20 years, without a whole lot of drama and bitching and need for recognition.

I may just bow out, this is just seeming to take a bad turn. I'll probably be too busy in the spring anyway. Too much self righteousnous and pissyness and easily hurt feelings going on here. No time for it.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:14 am

Jimmy, it is a lot of work, but I think it is more a question of focus. The hard part is when it is secondary to all the other things going on in life.

Nonetheless, I'm willing to put in the effort. Of course I expect you to be there (barring any judicial requirements for you not to be).

Alex hasn't chimed in, but now that he is retired he should have some free time to devote to this too.

The big question usually is: how many people. That is the first question that we need to know before approaching the Chateaux. So having a semi-accurate count before beginning the organization helps tremendously.

The bus is easy. The accommodations are easy. Making everyone happy at the end is trickier. But as I said before, we've done this enough times that most of the logistics are nailed down. I even have some fun ideas to add some activities this time.

So let's do this thing?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:10 am

If moved to March, I am 100% in and Brendan is 90+%. And as much as I can do from Colorado, I am ready to help.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:25 am

Tim and Danny sorry to read of your travails.

I think second half of March would be an excellent time to go, because the weather will not be hot and could be pleasant, it is before the big April tasting for the new vintage and it is a relatively quiet time which will improve chances of gaining access to key estates.

I think there is a lot of merit in Nic’s idea but I have a slightly different suggestion, assuming the numbers are 20 plus. That is that we have two parallel schedules over the same week for two groups which can be interchangeable.

For example we could schedule two visits to Chateau X, one in the morning the other in the afternoon, or one in Tuesday, one on Thursday, or if Chateau Y will take 20 plus we all go together. Some some estates we split into two groups others we go as a big group.

Latour was the only Chateau that limited numbers last time but I think it will be stricter this time. If we want to get into Cheval Blanc we may have to do it in two separate groups. The only logistical problem would be to have two smaller mini buses.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:32 pm

Sounds like second or third week in March might work, perhaps we should pick one of those weeks and sit on it for a few days and see how it works generally for people.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:45 pm

Week of March 23rd?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:55 pm

Arrive in Bordeaux on Monday, March 23rd...

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:56 pm

Assuming we have a big group, I like Ian’s idea of splitting into 2 smaller groups during the day as it (a) gives us flexibility to depending on our final headcount, and (b) keeps our options open for getting visits into smaller/more exclusive addresses.

Once we have a week selected, we can start the process of getting a firmer headcount. Late March is only 7 months away! Let’s get serious! I’ll start a list of likely attendees based on comments so far, please chime in with additions and corrections.

Unofficial BWE March Bordeaux Trip — Who’s In?:
—————————————————————————————-
JimHow
Comte
Tim
Alex
Nic
Stefan and Lucie
Patrick
Brendan