King of the Leovilles?

[Comte Flaneur]

The 67 Pall Mall zoom tasting tonight with Jane Anson compared the three Leovilles from the 89 and 09 vintages, recognised as similarly great - and warm - vintages. The line up pecking order was Barton, Poyferre, Lascases, and we started horizontally across the 1989 vintage.

1989 Leoville Barton, 12.5%

Initially shy, cool fruited; expansive palate and a long persistent finish. As it warmed up it became more expressive. Minerals, iodine, licorice, floral freshness, cedar and loamy earthy notes, truffle and undergrowth this wines distinguishing features are its freshness, classicism and svelte mid palate class, a beautifully refined and elegant wine. Plenty of time in hand, superb - 95

1989 Leoville Poyferre, 13%

A different wine which is more evolved with a more exuberant attack of herbs, spice, cocoa, camphor, iron filings but it was much less refined on the mid palate than the Barton, with some hollowness. This wine will drink well for a few more years but will not last as long as its flight mates. It is however a pleasurable wine in a good place - 91

1989 Leoville Lascases, na ABV

An alluring and classy attack of ash, cigar box, graphite and spice. It is powerful, intense and dense to the core with a bit more nervosity and edginess than the Barton. It is open for business but even after 31 years can still improve. A towering wine - 96

2009 Leoville Barton, 13%

Red fruited, primary, graphite, slate a more modern version of the 1989; great potential and class with a long life ahead of it - give it another decade - 96

2009 Leoville Poyferre, 14%

Lots of exuberant and very ripe blackberry and blueberry fruit. This was the only wine, if you tasted it blind, you would have no idea where this was from; a reasonable guess would be Napa ... or South America ... because its overripeness robs it of any recognisable Bordeaux typicity. Another example of the menace of Michel Rolland, who started consulting at Poyferre in 1994 his first left bank assignment according to Jane. This wine got its 100 Parker point rating, but was my least favourite wine of the six on show tonight. Impossible to rate this.

2009 Leoville Lascases, 13.5%

Powerful, intense, black fruited, pencil lead, licorice, cigar box, it has an impressive balance and harmony; the archetypal iron fist in a velvet glove. A wine that already delivers enormous pleasure but one which will last another four or five decades. Another towering Lascases - 97

This tasting reinforced all my prejudices about these three wines. Lascases is the king of the Leovilles but Barton runs it close. Poyferre is some distance behind. I preferred the 1989 to the spoofulated 2009 but it was still some distance behind the Barton and Lascases.

[Nicklasss]

Hi Comte. Very interesting comments, as always.

The three Léoville are all excellent to me, in very different styles. While I don't question that Las Cases is the King, from your text i would say that Barton is a serious Queen and Poyferré the Jester...

You taste these wines over a period of how many minutes/hours?

I had the 2009 Léoville Poyferré twice up to now (full bottles) and while i agree it is not a 100 points wine and it is a bit spoofulated. But with time and air, i think that wine offer a lot of pleasure and is still recognizable as red Bordeaux by it complexity. Of course, lot of ripeness too and medium acidity. You have to be in the good mood for that wine. But I have to admit that i had the 2003 Péby Faugères in the past, and this St Émilion is the most roasted and spoofulated wine i ever had...

I also had the 1989 Léoville Poyferré with JohnB in Seattle (2010 I guess) and i liked it more than the 2001 Cos d'Estournel that i brought at that dinner. The Poyferré again was showing ripeness, plums, tobacco but with a very serious blackberries character.

Nic

[JimHow]

Wow. Those are about the results I would expect.
Leoville Barton is such a BWE legend.
And it is interesting to see LLC reaching the heights expected of it.

[Blanquito]

Great notes, Ian.

Did we have the 89 Barton in Denver '19? I don't recall trying it.

[marcs]

I had the exact same experience at a tasting with the 2009 Poyferre, namely it SUCKED. This was at a Poyferre vertical too and it stood out even there as being bad — so gloopy! I am not an anti-Rolland ideologue either, I just want my wines to taste good. At that tasting I enjoyed the 05 Poyferre which felt quite smooth and “engineered” but at least had enough structure to be enjoyable unlike the 2009

[dstgolf]

Nice notes Ian and couldn't agree more with the comments about the Rolland influence at Poyferré. That 2009 is undrinkable for me and gloopy Napa sums it up pretty good. Someone out there must love their wines because they garner a premium price and they aren't going broke. Thank god for the style differences available through the Bordeaux region to allow most to find their favourites.

[Nicklasss]

What is amazing is that Léoville Poyferré won the BWE WOTY twice, Las Cases once, Barton... nada.

Nic

[Blanquito]

Barton isn’t usually the wine I like the most in bordeaux — though it’s always excellent — but it’s probably the chateau I most respect.

[Nicklasss]

Personnally, I understand wine lover statements about the 2009 Léoville Poyferré like "my least favorite", "not the style i like", "too modern, too fruity, too ripe, not classic enough", but i don't understand such statements like "it sucked", "undrinkable", "not good". Especially that the Chateau received us with class in 2015 (one of the few Chateaux that hold the flags from their visitor countries), and nobody said anything like that while there.

BTW, i don't understand these last statements for almost any red Bordeaux or wine. Red Bordeaux lovers (or serious wine lovers) acting a bit like President Trump? Credibility is going down. Please, let say you're kidding, like I did for the 2016 Mouton Rotschild in Jim's poll!

Nic

[Claret]

I had 89 LLC twice. First after the release of the 90 in a mini vertical of 88, 89 and 90. All very fine or spectacular bottles. I ranked them 89, 90 and 88 then. The 89 second bottle was at a BWE offline at Arv's. WOTN for me. The 90 last year at Bill P's was a stunner.

[jckba]

Nice notes Ian. I think I fall into the camp that really likes older Poyferre but I also kind of feel as time progressed, they progressively went for more and lost their way. And while the 100 point 2009 might be a colossal wreck, I always thought the 2010 was the much better wine of the two. Happy to own both though!

[JimHow]

I'm drawing a blank, Nicola, I don't recall LLC winning wine of the year.

And I agree with you on Leoville Poyferre. I remember our dinner there in 2015. I simply do not recall the 100-point wines they served us that night as being so insufferable, so unbearable....

I was tired that night, but I recall it as a positive experience.

It has been a while since I've had the 2008 Leoville Poyferre, but I recall it as a classic St. Julien with a green streak that was compelling.

[Nicklasss]

BWE WINES OF THE YEAR

2000: 1996 Sociando-Mallet
2001: 1989 Lynch-Bages
2002: 1995 d'Yquem
2003: 1999 Haut Brion Blanc
2004: 2000 Pichon Baron and 2000 du Tertre
2005: 2000 Margaux
2006: 2003 Pontet-Canet
2007: 2002 Leoville Poyferre
2008: 2005 Burgundy vintage (protest vote)
2009: 1989 Lafite Rothschild
2010: 2005 Cantemerle
2011: 2008 Leoville Poyferre
2012: 2009 Giscours
2013: 2004 Smith Haut Lafitte
2014: 2010 Chasse Spleen
2015: 2012 Leoville Las Cases
2016: 2012 Barde-Haut
2017: 2014 Calon Segur
2018: 2015 Brane Cantenac
2019: 2016 Tour Saint Christophe

[JimHow]

Ah yes of course the 2012 LLC, we really loved that in our visit in 2015.

[marcs]

Personnally, I understand wine lover statements about the 2009 Léoville Poyferré like "my least favorite", "not the style i like", "too modern, too fruity, too ripe, not classic enough", but i don't understand such statements like "it sucked", "undrinkable", "not good". Especially that the Chateau received us with class in 2015 (one of the few Chateaux that hold the flags from their visitor countries), and nobody said anything like that while there.

BTW, i don't understand these last statements for almost any red Bordeaux or wine. Red Bordeaux lovers (or serious wine lovers) acting a bit like President Trump? Credibility is going down. Please, let say you're kidding, like I did for the 2016 Mouton Rotschild in Jim's poll!

Nic

Look, I call it like I see it. I only had one glass of that wine at a large vertical, but it was B-A-D bad. For the price and reputation, it sucked. Not a flawed bottle either, just sweet and flabby. I was honestly astounded given the critical praise.

Agree the 2010 was better. But in general that vertical did not make me want to invest more in Poyferre

[AlexR]

Hi Ian,

Fascinating tasting and thanks for sharing your notes.

Your scores correspond pretty much to market reputation and pricing, with one notable exception: 2009 Léoville Poyferré.

I can remember tasting the 2009s en primeur. If I were to generalizze, the right bank wines seemed incredibly marked by high alcohol, but the right bank ones were beautiful and much more in balance.
I was particularly impressed with the wines of Saint Julien and bought a few bottles en primeur.

I have a couple of bottles of 2009 L.P. and I look forward to tasting one with you down the line. My impressions when the wine was in barrel were quite positive. It will be interesting to see in a few years how it has developed.

All the best,
Alex

[Chateau Vin]

Thanks Comte...Great notes...

I don't have much of LP in my cellar. Just have couple of bottles of 05 and 4 bottles of 08. I have had 95, 02, 04 of LP before, and I liked all of them...I prefer L Barton to LP, and consequently, I have more of L Barton...And of course, LLC is out of my league but I think I have couple of bottles each of 07 and 12 vintages...

[Antoine]

None of these vintages in my cellar I am afraid. Just Leoville Poyferre 2000 which is good but still a bit young, 2004 LLC and 2008 Barton which I am still to open as they are quite young. Hope they don't suck...
LP 2000 does not look too spofulated ...for my taste did you have it Ian?

[dstgolf]

Nic,

I don't disagree that we were treated very well and received like dignitaries at LP in 2015 on our visit but I wouldn't go as far far as saying that should sway our personal opinions of the wine. Personally I don't have or have never had a single bottle of LP in my cellar as it has never turned my crank. I loved our visit and the tour/meal was great but that doesn't mean that should change my opinion about the wine itself and especially the 2009 which I can't believe was rated 100pts. To each his own. BWE wines of the year have been controversial at times and the ones ones that come to the forefront was the protest vote for 2005 Burgundy which I think Jim in hindsight again was bang on as he recognized/acknowledged a great vintage outside of the Bordeaux realm. That 2012 Barde Haut I'll never find any love for and I never understood the vote for the Poyferré or Las Cases for that matter. Only half the group went to Las Cases in 2015 then it comes out WOTY because some loved the 2012 that you tasted. I see nothing hypocritical about personal taste and why would I or someone else pass a critical comment about not enjoying the wines in front of a gracious hostess at LP?? We've said many times how much we respect personal opinion and an individuals differing tastes have always been respected mores on this board than others. Just because you like something doesn't mean you are right and someone else is wrong. Generally great wines seem to have a common ground amongst wine lovers but there are some that will always remain controversial and it is still nice to have a peaceful discussion around these wines and not rub someones nose in it.

Enjoy a few photos of that memorable day in 2015 visiting both Barton and Poyferré in 2015.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WFjKhEu5agZXSo4dA

[robert goulet]

Speaking of Leoville...here is a recap of a recent dinner with my sugar daddy Bobby Orlando


Re: Impromptu Guy’s Night w/04 VCC, 04 Leoville Barton, 2016 Dalla Valle, et al
#15 Post Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:25 pm

What a night with the boys...

Jeeezus...these guys goaded me into ordering some gargantuan slab of sauropod meat...Good lord Alfert, was this thing the rump of some beast from the Jur’ass’ic Period? This marvel of marbled meat had every Vegan within a 25 mile radius wallowing for their Watercress. This thing had enough growth hormone to make Phil Spector and Robert Blake burn all their lifts. This is serious meat and after one bite, you fall under the spell of its grizzled goodness. Increds...

This was my first visit to the Osprey. Quite a posh establishment, which sits on the Main Street, well within the confines of affluent Baldwin Park. I added a link for it: https://www.theospreyorlando.com/

We started w/ the ‘17 Patricia Green Pinot reserve brought by our physician buddy. I like the nose here, some of that Burgundian funk. On the palate it is a bit simple, has some crunchy tartness and cool red fruits. It worked fine here with the oysters

Then to the ‘04 VCC. This is actually my first VCC and it did not disappoint. I just loved the savory herbaceous leaf notes along with the crisp red fruits. Not super complex, but has a lovely balance and no traces of global warming or over-oak influence. A wonderful classically styled claret.

Next was the the ‘04 Leoville Barton. This is just another level up here. Fans of classic old school Bordeaux can look no further. The Leoville was offering up all the charms that ‘true’ Bordeaux fans long for. Almost a paulliac type feel here but just not as masculine. This is a mid-weight claret with heavy-weight class. On first sip the wine builds in the mouth, tobacco leaf, sage, wet earth, mineral and hints of smokiness. This is at peak, so do not hesitate to pop one now. I am kicking myself for not buying more.

Interesting note about the Leoville Barton label for those newer to Bordeaux. That is not the Leoville Barton chateau on the label. Leoville Barton wines are made at Langoa Barton, so that is the Langoa chateau portrayed on the label.

Ok, so here are some very extensive detailed notes on the remaining Napa wines...it took me some time to put these together so I hope you guys can appreciate it...lol

2003 Les Pavot second label: Absolute plonk

2016 Dalle Valle: meh, bit oaky, nothing memorable

‘16 Moon Tsai: somewhat drinkable, best of the 3

And there u have it boys...until next wine

[stefan]

I can almost taste the wines from your descriptions, Ian. The '89 and '09 Bartons sound especially appealing to me.

[SF Ed]

Fully agree that LLC is the top of the heap of the Bartons.

Maybe the deal with LP is that because they go for over the top fruit, they comparatively do better in more "classic" vintages like 2002. I like 2002 LP a lot. Not as good as LLC, but great value.

SF Ed

[marcs]

Fully agree that LLC is the top of the heap of the Bartons.

Maybe the deal with LP is that because they go for over the top fruit, they comparatively do better in more "classic" vintages like 2002. I like 2002 LP a lot. Not as good as LLC, but great value.

SF Ed

Yeah, in the big LP vertical I thought the 2000-2005-2010 were the best vintages because the tannins were so strong they gave structure and avoided flabbiness. Still didn't really knock me out though. Of those three I actually like 2005 the best.

[jal]

Looking at Danny's photos, it seems that you guys were served artichokes at Leoville Poyferre. Need I say more?

[Comte Flaneur]

Thanks for all your interesting comments.

Just to be clear, re the 2009 Poyferre, my point was not that it was undrinkable but that for me it was not recognisable as Bordeaux. Blind I would have guessed a cult Napa, not my bailiwick. Something I would drink if offered, but I would imagine getting past the first couple of glasses would be hard work, and definitely something I wouldn’t buy. I preferred the 1989 Poyferre which at least showed some Bordeaux typicity even if in my book it was some distance behind the other two 1989s.

So I wouldn’t say that the 2009 Poyferre ‘sucks’ but I would say that the fact that this wine has clearly been manipulated in the cellar is regrettable. If the intention behind the manipulation was to achieve a home run Parker score, which it did, then that is even more so. This is because it seems to based on the cynical calculation that this is a winning strategy, which pays instant dividends in market pricing. This is the sort of calculation made by Bernard Magrez - one of France’s savviest and richest businessmen - with Pape Clement.

Jane made an interesting observation that Didier Culvelier hired Michel Rolland rather than Eric Boisssenot, who consults at Barton and Lascases, because he wanted to differentiate his product from the other two. Poyferre was the first left bank estate to hire Rolland and he has a heavy hand there.

I think Parker was just a big a menace as Rolland in egging on winemakers to craft these kind of wines. Somebody on the UK wine board professing their love for 1989 Lascases based on a recent encounter noted that ‘I believe I’m right in saying it’s not a highly rated year for the Chateau, wrongly so it seems.’ I went back and looked at Parker’s tasting note from the 2003 edition of his ‘Bordeaux’ tome, emphasis added:

Dark ruby (a far less saturated colour than the 1990), this wine offers up a somewhat internationally- styled nose of new oak and ripe black currant fruit with a hint of mineral and graphite. The wine is a medium weight, relatively elegant style of wine without nearly the power, density and layers of concentration that the 1990 possesses. Like so many 1989s there is a feeling that the selection was not as strict as it should have been, or that the harvest occurred perhaps a few days earlier than it should have been to achieve full phenolic ripeness. This wine will continue to improve for another 15 years or more, and while it is an outstanding wine it is hardly a profound example of Leoville Lascases. Anticipated maturity: now-2016, 90 points.

One of the many he got completely wrong.

[Nicklasss]

None of these vintages in my cellar I am afraid. Just Leoville Poyferre 2000 which is good but still a bit young, 2004 LLC and 2008 Barton which I am still to open as they are quite young. Hope they don't suck...
LP 2000 does not look too spofulated ...for my taste did you have it Ian?

Antoine, I had 2 bottles of the 2004 Léoville Las Cases and I guess you will like it when you'll open it. Very Las Cases but from a lighter vintage that make it approachable young, that is not the normality for a LLC. It reminded me the 2012.

The 1989 LLC in Denver was extremely good, and another bottle one or two years before was also rocking. But i remember having that wine also many years ago, and it was good but not giving as much as in the last 2-3 years. For the comment of Parker, I don't know if it is the truth or simply a supposition (there is a feeling...)... hard to tell. My perception is that Parker (and wine critics in general) has never been very welcome at LLC, so LLC kept the same style (vineyard, winemaking, oak aging) basically almost the same, since the end of 70's (under Michel and Jean-Hubert Delon).

Nic