1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

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marcs
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1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

I've been drinking Bordeaux for decades and not even I can remember every bottle I've had. So I can't guarantee that this is the worst non-flawed bottle of Bordeaux I've ever had. There might have been some other crap bottle I drank that I forgot about. Possibly this stands out more because it is Leoville Barton and I expected it to be good. But I can tell you that I cannot ever recall having a bottle of Bordeaux that was as bad as this one and wasn't clearly flawed by age or being cooked or corked.

Before getting to the ugly details of how bad it was, I need to say why I don't think it was flawed. Reason #1: Typically, flawed wine has either stripped / absent fruit, some obvious issue like intense brett or VA, or at least a clear structural problem. This had plenty of robust fruit, felt correct, it just tasted like crap. Reason #2: I had two bottles with fairly similar impressions (see below). Reason #3: A well-known critic had similar impressions to me tasting close to release (see below).

Anyway, without further ado, 1999 Leoville Barton: Perfect cork and fill. Robust and fruity palate, but nose absent and the flavors were very flat, bland, and sour. Opened up more to the point where it clearly wasn't corked, very full mid-palate, but it tasted so bad that you wished it was corked. A flat, thick, wine with a slight aftertaste of prune. Flavors of cheap burned coffee and a touch of something metallic. The combination of thickness/heaviness and bland but sour and unpleasant flavors gave a slight sensation of drinking mud.

Second bottle: had another bottle partially out of disbelief at how bad the first one was. The main difference was this one had an decent if not great nose, had a nice "grape sorbet" fruit intensity to it. But this somewhat nice impression from the nose disappeared as soon as you drank it, as the palate was extremely similar to my recollection of the first bottle. Slightly grating tannins, heavy and non-harmonious palate (again almost "muddy" in a weird way) with a forced quality and a pronounced bitter-sour midpalate. A heavy flat finish which is long but not in a way you would like -- that cheap burnt coffee flavor really lasts.

Adding to my sense that these were authentic and correct bottles, I looked up John Gilman's tasting note on this wine. For those of you who don't know (and I didn't until I started looking this up), Gilman considers LB one of the worst major left bank chateau (he rated the 2009 79 points). Here is his TN on the 1999, written in 2007:
I used to be a serious fan of Leoville-Barton, as wines like the 1983, 1985 and 1986 struck me as sophisticated and classic examples of St. Julien. Not so this remarkably poor and “suped-up” 1999 Barton, which has gone about as far over to the dark side as any French wine from good terroir could possibly go. The modern and predictably excessive nose is a blur of overripe fruit tones redolent of scorched cassis, prunes, tobacco, damp earth and of course, plenty of new oak. On the palate the wine is deep, full-bodied and completely dull, with low acids, a hint of soil that is almost mud, and a dead, flat and woody finish. This really sucks
Written 14 years ago, that is astoundingly accurate to the wine I drank. I even made the "mud" reference independently in my own TN before reading this, as well as the sense of something scorched or burnt. Hmmmm. I have a lot of LB in my collection, and have really liked the 2004 LB. I may have to check some of the other vintages to see if they are anything like this.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JimHow »

Other than d’Armailhac and I think d’Issan and SHL, I do not recall being thrilled by 1999. I recall Lynch and Latour as disappointments.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Comte Flaneur »

100% your wine was flawed Marc

Last bottle I had a couple of weeks ago crushed it, clearly one of the wines of the vintage imho better than any super second in this vintage.

Edit - just found my brief impressions from Feb 21 when I tried this: This bottle was absolutely brilliant, drinking beautifully. I think this would have easily held its own against the mightily impressive 01/02/04 tiumverate. This has such finesse with dark fruits and violets and it is now absolutely delicious. It is such an achievement for such a modest year and it has to be a wine of the vintage contender. These four vintages are so much a better bet than the grumpy 95 and 96 Leoville Bartons.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Blanquito »

I’m pretty surprised at Gilman’s take on LB. If he were talking about Poyferre, I could understand but Barton?!
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

As I said, between the perfect condition of the bottles, tasting two bottles, and Gilman's perspective, I'm pretty certain these bottles weren't flawed. Palates differ.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

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Blanquito wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:41 pm I’m pretty surprised at Gilman’s take on LB. If he were talking about Poyferre, I could understand but Barton?!
If Gilman feel this way about Barton, what could he think of Pontet Canet, Pape Clement, St Pierre, Beychevelle, GPL, etc, (all wines which have become more modern that Barton)? Or maybe such chateau never had “great terroir” in his estimation.

I hate to say it as I usually agree with Gilman (and especially for bordeaux wines), but this feels like gaslighting on his part.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

Blanquito wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:41 pm I’m pretty surprised at Gilman’s take on LB. If he were talking about Poyferre, I could understand but Barton?!
I got a year's subscription to VFTC and it's been interesting. He is highly opinionated about Bordeaux, to the degree he no longer tastes there, and very soft on pretty much all other regions. I wish he still tasted in Bordeaux as I find his opinionated quality there to be a useful differentiator. He has had some calls I disagreed with but he has also been uncannily accurate on calling some wines.

He really can't stand post-1980s Leoville Barton. I didn't know this when I had the 1999 myself, but when I went back to look at CT after the second bottle to figure out WTH was going on I found his review above. Here's his take on some other vintages:
2006 -- I have had so many lovely bottles of Leoville-Barton down through the years that I have purposely avoided tasting recent incarnations of the wine, given its strong praise in other circles that regard “spoofulization” much more sanguinely than I. However, I did finally cross paths with the ’06 Leoville-Barton, and it was everything I had feared, as it offers up a blend of raw new oak, cassis, resin, coffee ground, damp earth and a boatload of sawdust. On the palate the wine is full-bodied, bitter with uncovered oak tannin and dull, with good length and grip on the astringent, woody finish. Rather a caricature of the old style of Leoville-Barton, I have a very hard time imagining this wine ever delivering any degree of pleasure. ???

2009 -- The 2009 Leoville Barton is consistent with recent efforts from this estate, which is too bad, as there was a day not that long ago when Leoville Barton could be counted on to produce top flight examples of the vintage. But that day is sadly not today, and the 2009 is an over the top, cartoon-like example of the vintage, that offers up a modern and syrupy nose of blackberries, black raspberries, graphite, coffee ground and plenty of spicy, Taransaud oak. On the palate the wine is deep, full-bodied, closed and astringent, with a bit more complexity than the Langoa Barton, but about the same forecast for zero enjoyment down the road. ???

2010 -- The 2010 Leoville Barton is another terminally overripe and disappointing example of the vintage. The bouquet offers up a boring blend of syrupy black cherries, mochaccino, graphite and damp soil. On the palate the wine is full-bodied, fat and utterly four-square, with a chunky core of overripe fruit and a brutally tannic, astringent and dysfunctional finish that cannot end soon enough. At least aromatically, the 2010 Leoville Barton could be at home at a Starbucks, so it gets a few more points than the equally dismal Langoa Barton, but this is pretty sad juice once one puts it in one’s mouth. A fundamentally flawed wine from the outset, this will never provide any pleasure. Caveat emptor. ???

2011 -- The 2011 Leoville Barton is another very modern wine that is most impressive in its complete lack of soil tones on both the nose and palate! The sappy nose is a pretty blend of cassis, black cherries, cigar smoke, lead pencil and coffee bean. On the palate the wine is full-bodied, deep and quite suave on the spit-polished attack, with reasonably good mid-palate depth and a fair bit of dry-edged, oak-derived tannins poking out on the long and flat finish. The complete lack of grip here is rather startling on the backend. Again, there is probably enough stuffing here to eventually gobble up the wood tannins, but this is not a wine that shouts out “Bordeaux” in the glass- let alone St. Julien! Simple juice for simple minds. (Drink between 2020-2040)

2012 -- I tasted three different samples of the 2012 Château Léoville Barton during the UGC tastings, as I really thought the wine would be better than it showed that day. Perhaps, as it was raining, the barometric pressure was playing havoc with these samples (though the Beychevelle was spot on at the same tasting!), but if this really is the wine, it is not a great vintage for this property. The bouquet is the best part of the wine, as it offers up scents of cassis, dark berries, tobacco leaf, a bit of soil and plenty of nutty new wood. On the palate the wine is medium-full, flat and absolutely hollow in the mid-palate, with moderate tannins and reasonable focus, but no length or grip. Is this really the wine?
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by greatbxfreak »

Gilman is Gilman, and he's TNs are abusive.

I've never considered L.Barton to be modern because it is a traditional St.Julien.

marcs, you sound like your expectations were like 2000 or 1990. The best 1999 is for me, Palmer. This vintage wasn't fully ripe, and it rained a lot.

From my website:

2012 Leoville Barton 93p

Tasted in September 2019. Incredibly captivating wine with lots of lush, tasty and well-defined fruit, deliciously soft tannin and splendid aroma of blackcurrants and violets. This is 100% Bordeaux, and this wine will make customers thrillingly happy in the restaurant!!

2011 Leoville Barton 90p

Tasted in September 2016. Surprisingly quite forward in development, drinkable, round and charming, sweet cherry fruit and tasty tannin. Very, very attractive wine.

2007 Leoville Barton 88p

Tasted in September 2013. It is a very nice, attractive and charming wine with good stuffing, light fruit and tannin, and a soft finish. Very enjoyable to drink right now.

2006 Leoville Barton 92p

Tasted in September 2013. Better ripeness of fruit, better structure and longer on the palate than 2007. Quite well-integrated tannin and fine balance. Complex. Fine effort.

1985 Leoville Barton 95p

Tasted in November 2015. Dark in colour, powerful, blackberry/blueberry compote, strong tannin to support the fruit, Sheer power here instead of elegance and finesse, with a sophisticated touch. This wine is something of a beast and will probably keep without any problems for another 20 years.
Last edited by greatbxfreak on Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JimHow »

Ah yes duh how could I forget Palmer and Chateau Margaux in 1999.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by AKR »

After 20 years there is natural bottle variation, as well as taste / palate differences.

I served the last bottle of a case of 99 LeoB purchased EP to the local BWE cadres at age 20 here, and it was very solid -- youthful in fact.

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... 52&p=73574

My personal feel is that buying wine aftermarket is not as low risk as conventionally regarded here. Sure some of the supply comes from estate sales, or en masse cellar cullings from relocations, but there's also supply that has a selection bias -- in that the seller has tasted it and found the wines to be off in some way. Maybe UK bonded warehouse transactions are different/better; I've only bought through that channel a few times, and shipping was $$$
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

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I’m still thinking about this, and I know Gilman likes a “soil signature” in his wines.

That has me wondering, which bordeaux smell and taste the most like “dirt”? Many chateau don’t really have a fresh tilled mollisol profile, they’re more cedary or graphite driven like a classic pauillac. And most Margaux are floral, and I often get a fresh leaf and berry scent on St Juliens. St Estephe maybe? I don’t get that soil smell on the Firsts really which are too refined by and large for that (except maybe Haut Brion).

My top loamy claret:
-Canon (pre-2015, probably in a league of its own)
-Magdelaine
-Lagune (at least the pre-04s do)
-Cantemerle (at least the pre-03s do)
-Lanessan (at least the pre-15s do)

And of course lots of Graves (Louviere, pre-98 Pape Clement, pre-modern Carmes Haut Brion).

P.S. I am a big fan of this “soil signature” too.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

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AKR wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:34 pm After 20 years there is natural bottle variation, as well as taste / palate differences.

I served the last bottle of a case of 99 LeoB purchased EP to the local BWE cadres at age 20 here, and it was very solid -- youthful in fact.

http://www.bordeauxwineenthusiasts.com/ ... 52&p=73574

My personal feel is that buying wine aftermarket is not as low risk as conventionally regarded here. Sure some of the supply comes from estate sales, or en masse cellar cullings from relocations, but there's also supply that has a selection bias -- in that the seller has tasted it and found the wines to be off in some way. Maybe UK bonded warehouse transactions are different/better; I've only bought through that channel a few times, and shipping was $$$
This wine was youthful too, is the thing. As I said, it had a ton of fruit and forceful. It was just crappy. What seemed to be missing was not "fruit" but acidity and grace/balance. But it might have been a particular batch. This was a very weird experience, never had such a divergence between the expectation and reputation of a wine and my experience of it. Of course I've had many disappointing wines but I could always see why others saw it the way they did.

Tempted to save my last bottle of this to bring to a BWE dinner so others can taste.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by AKR »

It would probably be more instructive to bring it a dinner where another 99 L-B can be compared to it, and just have them side by side.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Musigny 151 »

I think we are seeing a lot of different palates at work. As I am sure for people who know my palate, they will not be surprised to hear I am in the Gilman camp. The major exception was the 1996 Barton, which was also an exception for Las Cases, which I also almost never buy. Both of them display a freshness which I find lacking in other vintages.

BTW, last time I looked Leoville Barton was in St. Julien not Pauillac.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

AKR wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:33 pm It would probably be more instructive to bring it a dinner where another 99 L-B can be compared to it, and just have them side by side.
good point, that would be perfect.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JimHow »

BTW, last time I looked Leoville Barton was in St. Julien not Pauillac.
Ha, I was going to say....
Although, I've always said LLC is at its best when it tastes like a Pauillac.
And, I've always considered the best pinpoint in the known solar system most propitious for the growing of wine grapes, where it all comes together, like lobster and whoopee pies in Maine, is that bend in the road on D2 where Pauillac meets St. Julien.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Musigny 151 »

Not surprising as Las Cases has vines in Pauillac.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Reading your note your wine was either heat damaged corked or both; or damaged in some other way.

I have had scintillating examples of this wine, the most recent less than a month ago but the one before that last year I brought for a Barton vertical was badly flawed.

Gilman is leaving himself open for ridicule the way he describes this wine in particular and Leoville-Barton in general; it is the quintessentially classic St-Julien. I agree the 1999 vintage is generally mediocre, but Leoville Barton excelled in this vintage.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by greatbxfreak »

Sorry for the typo! I just corrected it to St. Julien.

L.Barton has been on a roll since 2015 vintage.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Comte Flaneur »

greatbxfreak wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:34 pm Sorry for the typo! I just corrected it to St. Julien.

L.Barton has been on a roll since 2015 vintage.
To be more accurate Izak, Leoville Barton has been on a roll since the 1999 vintage.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

Comte Flaneur wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:27 pm Reading your note your wine was either heat damaged corked or both; or damaged in some other way.

What in the notes is characteristic of a heat damaged or corked wine? Typically the fruit is stripped or weakened in such wines. That was not evident here. In any case, clearly you believe that any very bad experience with this vintage of Leoville-Barton (or perhaps any vintage?) is by definition indicative of a damaged wine, since you are certain from your experience that it is an excellent wine. I suppose I'll take that diagnosis rather than being made "subject to ridicule" like Gilman :D

I have a 2009 Leoville-Barton available, another wine that Gilman hated, and I am going to try it sometime in the next couple of weeks and report back. I am pretty confident that I can judge it objectively. I did in fact like the 2004 L-B a lot, another wine that you liked as well.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

Marcus,

>>
A flat, thick, wine with a slight aftertaste of prune. Flavors of cheap burned coffee and a touch of something metallic. The combination of thickness/heaviness and bland but sour and unpleasant flavors gave a slight sensation of drinking mud
>>

is consistent with heat damage. It is certainly not consistent with the taste of any 1999 Leoville-Barton that I have drunk.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

That's true, this description of heat damage sounds a bit like what I had -- "Wine heat damage tastes unpleasantly sour and jammy…sort of like canned prunes."

it was jammy, lots of fruit, but it tasted bad.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

I located a bottle of 1999 to drink tonight with hangar steak.

"Lovely nose," breathes Lucie.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

"It's great," responds stefan, and Lucie agrees.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

Sweet red fruit, St Julien elegance, long, long finish--what is there not to like?
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

No burnt coffee. No leather yet. No mud for sure.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JimHow »

We're doing a flash Zoom tasting with Stefan and Lucie to get a first hand account of the 1999 Leo Barton in about 9 minutes....

7:30pm eastern time.

We'll probably be on for about an hour, feel free to join in!

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81692311489
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

Some cedar sawdust in the nose and a slight bitterness on the sides adds to the primary fruit.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by stefan »

....continued on Zoom. Join in if you can.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Blanquito »

I get not liking Leoville Barton (and Leoville Las Cases for that matter). They can be tannic, stern, charmless, foursquare, dry, take ages to mature, etc., but modern, spoofed, flabby??? Come on, that’s just silly.

I for one have have had terribly experiences with 80’s Barton overall (with a pretty epic number of corked and flawed bottles in particular, but even the taint free ones where generally charmless) and don’t find it worthy of the hype until starting in 1990. I haven’t had any Barton’s after the 08 (except the 14 and 16 on release), but the 90-08 run have been so much better than the pre-90 bottles I’ve had.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Nicklasss »

Me too, I would say your bottle marcs was having something wrong, from your description. I don't think I had the 1999, but i can't think of Léo Barton as having no freshness and being pruney.

I had two bottles of the 2012, an "ordinary" one, and a very good one (while I would not call it excellent), so this would be my worst encounter with Léo Barton.

Bottles of 1978, 1985, 1986, 1989 (bottle with dstgolf January 2020 was stellar), 1990, 1996 (I like more this vintage than some other BWEers), 2000 (excellent or more), 2003 (success in that vintage), 2008, 2015 (promising) and 2017 (one of the more balanced wine from that vintage, with Langoa).

I agree with blanquito that Léo Barton and Las Cases are special Saint Julien that will not please every palate. While Léo Poyferré is probably 90 % modern and 10 % traditionnal, the two other Léo are the opposite with specific grainy tannins for sometime in their life.

And I would say that most Léo Barton are wines to appreciate like Jim did with the 2014 Conseillante : on it's own, slowly and surely. Léo Barton isn't made for big tasting or compete, it is a wine to relax and think.

Nic
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by robert goulet »

We all know D'armailhac shined here but, I recently popped a '99 Malartic Lagraviere while a friend popped the '99 Lynch Bages... neither a Blockbuster by any means but, both were solid enjoyable quaffs.


Going back to the '99 D'armailhac... It out classed a 1995 Leoville Barton that night. The Pauillac was mine and Orlando Robert's WOTN.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by robert goulet »

Sorry to hear about the Barton....I would seek refuge in the Leoville Barton 2004 which is an it absolute classic cracker. I popped this with Orlando Robert a few months back, a real treat.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by Comte Flaneur »

My vintage ratings for Leoville Barton

1978 - 91 - delightful
1982 - 90 - undistinguished for the vintage
1985 - 93 - good bottles are quintessence of claret
1986 - 90 - still as tough as old boots
1988 - 92 - a carbon copy of the 1985
1989 - 97 - sensational
1990 - 97 - likewise
1994 - 91 - came good in the end
1995 - 91 - terse, still waiting
1996 - 91 - likewise
1999 - 93 - in the sweet spot
2000 - 93+ still coming round
2001 - 93 - seductive for L-B impossible not to love
2002 - 93 - classical and brilliant
2003 - 88 - good for the vintage but falls short
2004 - 93 - brilliant
2005 - 91 - lacks balance and harmony of other years
2006 - 92 - very good still needs time
2007 - 92 - a revelation for the vintage
2008 - 93 - carbon copy of the 2004
2009 - 97 - sensational
2010 - 97 - likewise
2016 - 95+
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JimHow »

The 2014 is a beauty as well, I have ten in my cellar.
The 1985 might be my favorite Leoville Barton ever.

Great to see everyone at the flash Zoom last night, we had 8 people join in on 15 minutes notice!
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

I am going to get a 2004 (or maybe 2002?) and 2009 Leoville Barton out of storage soon and post notes. I've had the 2004 and liked it but never had the 2009. I've got a lot of LB too, in fact last year I bought a case of the 2004 based on my previous experience with it, $75/bottle seemed like solid value.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

Saying again that these bottles were hideous. But based on some googling of heat damage symptoms and Stefan's experience I am leaning toward heat damage as an explanation, despite Gilman's views. However if LB lets me down again I will be honest about that!
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by JoelD »

Did you get all of your 1999 bottles from the same source? Auction?

If it was Acker, you know you have to post that and take your licks from the crowd right? :)

Always sucks to get off bottles. The comments above about auctions are very fair. But still definitely worth the risk IMO, at least if you're diligent and source well, and get good deals.
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Re: 1999 Leoville Barton: extremely disappointing

Post by marcs »

I got them from HDH. They were externally perfect, cork, fill, label, etc. In fact strikingly so.
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