Favorite New World wine(s)?

[Blanquito]

I’ve long had a big soft spot for the wines from Ridge, and as great as their old-vine field blends are, my favorite wines from Ridge have been some of their old cabs from York Creek which can be truly magically. I’ve enjoyed these much more than the Monte Bello’s I’ve had (which suffers from too much oak IMHO), to my lingering surprise. But the York Creek cabs are long gone (Ridge’s last cab from this site was circa 1990) and are now very hard to find. Yet for many, Ridge Monte Bello might be the pinnacle — a first among firsts — for New World wines. So I keep buying a few Monte Bello here and there to try, hoping to find that magic.

Some other obvious candidates for favorite/best New World wines:
Penfolds Grange
old Montelena (I say old, as Monty lost its luster for me by the late 90’s)
old Phelps (ditto)
Dominus
Togni

What are your tops?

[jal]

Most Oregon Pinot Noir

[Blanquito]

Most Oregon Pinot Noir

Interesting. I do really like Oregon pinot, but I’ve not felt the earth move yet. What are your favorite producers there, Jacques? Drouhin?

[JimHow]

Ridge Geyserville and St. Innocent Momtazi are my favorite new world wines.

[Racer Chris]

Lagier-Meredith Syrah, Malbec, and Mondeuse.

[Blanquito]

I’ve come around to realize that Momtazi is my favorite SI PN as well, Jim. I used to think it was Shea, but Momtazi never seems to fail me and I love that dusty note.

[jal]

Most Oregon Pinot Noir

Interesting. I do really like Oregon pinot, but I’ve not felt the earth move yet. What are your favorite producers there, Jacques? Drouhin?

I really never found one I dislike, Patrick. A lot of CA Pinot Noir is over extracted ripe and syrupy imo (there are exceptions), most OR I drank have good fruit but are balanced with brightness, structure and acidity.
To name a few :
Evesham Wood (amazing for the price)
Rex Hill
Ponzi
Archery Summit
Cristom
St Innocent (of course)
Drouhin
And many many others. At this point, when we are dining out in a non byo place (a very rare occurrence lately), the best QPR on a wine list for us would be any OR pinot noir.

[jal]

Of course, if we're talking non Pinot noir or Syrah then Dominus, Togni and Ridge. A cheap bottle of Oberon Cab we had with friends lately was also surprisingly good.

[stefan]

You ask which is my favorite St Innocent Pinot Noir. Mine is Justice, although in any given vintage I might prefer any of several others. I am sorry for the demise of 7 Springs, which Evening Land ruined.

If you ask which is my favorite non Oregon new world wine, my answer is Ridge Geyserville. I don't drink enough CA cab to choose one of them, and I prefer Geyserville to Lytton Springs. I like some Ridge ATP wines, but I don't drink a lot of these low production wines.

[William P]

To add to Jacques' list, I am fond of Walter Scott's Pinots and Chardonnays.
I also like Rose and Arrow pinots but there wines are very pricey.
Lingua Franca makes great chardonnays but the majority of them again are pricey.
Finally Cristom make great pinots.

Next month I intend to visit Evesham Woods, Failla, and Keller, probably a few more.

Bill

[Dandersson]

I would have to go for Ridge, but I have not had them in awhile. I sometimes enjoy Beringer Knights Valley Cab. Have had some good Shiraz/Syrah from Penfolds, Montes Alpha, and Torbreck. Don't have a strict price limit for new world wines but I tend to go Bordeaux and Northern Rhone when I spent more money therefore I am not able to comment on the top wines.

[rthomaspaull]

(logging in can be a real pain, though I think it was my fault this time),
Margerum Sybarite Sauvignon Blanc and various Santa Rita Hills Pinot Noirs (and some Chardonnays). A few Napa Valley Cabs. rthomaspaull

[JCNorthway]

I've much enjoyed Ridge's Lytton Springs and Geyserville in the past, but have not purchased any since the 2006 vintage. When the prices went from +/- $30 to over $35, it was harder for me to pull the trigger relative to some Bordeaux and Chateauneufs in a similar price range. These days, my favorite new world wine would be a good quality, reasonably priced Oregon Pinot Noir. I'm not willing to pay the prices to "make the earth move," but I've found a few under $30 Pinots that fill the role quite well for an everyday wine with grilled chicken or salmon (which we do a lot). Recent purchases have included 2018 Roco Gravel Road, 2018 Maison L'Envoye, and 2017 Johan Vineyards. Of course St. Innocent is at the top of my list when I'm willing to spend $30-40 a bottle.

[Comte Flaneur]

I like Ridge across the board but it is a long time since I tried one, and I don’t own any, which I deeply regret. I liked the Ridge Chardonnays - Monte Bello and Santa Cruz - but it must be a decade since I had one.

I think my favourite American producer, though, is Ceritas. I still have a 2009 Porter Bass Chardonnay, and the last one I had a couple of years ago was sensational.

I am also a big fan of Rhys Pinots, especially, and Chardonnays, but they are quite difficult to obtain over here, and not cheap, like Swiss pinots. Switzerland is not new world but like everything there, the wines are expensive. But I would love to have the budget to explore more.

I keep on reading about St-Innocent Pinot Noir on here! You can not find it here; not for love, nor money; trust me I have left no stone unturned. So if any of you guys are coming to London and are at a loss as to what to bring, you have your answer.

In my opinion the most iconic - and probably still the best - new world wine is Penfolds Grange. It used to be called Grange Hermitage when I lived in Adelaide (1977-84); the Magill Estate winery was equidistant between our house and my school, near where Sir Don Bradman lived.

The first vintage of Grange was 1951, so it predated pretty much everything in the new world. It predated Super Tuscans by 17 years. Mature Grange tastes like Petrus. The best bottle of Grange was my wine of the year in 2018, the incomparable 1976.

A lot of wines cropped up to challenge Grange especially once Parker started noticing Aussie wines, whenever that was. And some real monstrosities were created, craven to the Parker palate. Most of them fell by the wayside.

I used to drink quite a lot of Penfolds in my 20s (30 years ago) but now Penfolds wines are ridiculously expensive, notably their flagship Cabernet Bin 707, a pure Cabernet, which is good but lacks personality. Not in the same league as Grange.

The most recent Grange I tried was the 2010, which was superlative. It is a shame that the alcohol has gone up from 12% to 14.5% though. The other shirazes I liked were Rockford and St-Hallet, but they are probably old hat now.

Some Australian Chardonnays have gone from overoaked fruit bombs to anorexic wines, so pendulum swung too far. My fave Aussie Chardonnay is Bindi from Victoria. Good luck trying to find any these days. Western Australia is a bountiful hunting ground for excellent Aussie Chards...

...take it away Sir Les...

https://youtu.be/vRcnT-2zo9s

I am not a really fan of Kiwi Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Noir, but they are alright occasionally in small doses. Neudorf (Moutere) and Kumeu River make the best Chardonnays in kiwi-land. Kumeu famously spanks Meursaults tasted blind, but try finishing a bottle of Kumeu on its own. I find them quite soporific after a few glasses.

South Africa is probably the ‘hottest’ new world country right now. Some of it is hype of course. We must not forget how SA has been so afflicted with leaf roll virus (unpleasant burnt rubber flavours). However two great producers to look out for: Lukas Van Loggerenberg - fab Chenin Blanc, Cab Franc and Cinsault - and Newton Johnson - very good Chardonnays and pinots.

[SF Ed]

Like Ian, I am a big fan of Rhys here in the SF Bay Area. Unlike Ian, I have a huge amount of it having been on the list since the start in 2004 and a consistent buyer ever since. They are relatively low alcohol wines with lively fruit and for me combine the best aspects of the New World with Old World sensibilities.

I am also a fan of Littorai, a bit riper than Rhys but still very restrained by CA standards. If Rhys is like Gevrey in temperament, Littorai is Chambolle.

For the most part, I still prefer the Old World for wines, even living next door to Napa and Sonoma. A part of me wishes I liked ripe fruit bombs the way I did 20-25 years ago, as it would make it a lot easier to find wines I like made close to home.

[stefan]

Ian, you also cannot find St Innocent PN in Texas. I get them directly from the winery.

Jon, you make a very good point. There are a still a number of good Oregon PNs under $30, especially from less recognized wineries. In the $30-$45 range some Oregon PN is of 1er Cru quality.

[Harry C.]

The epitome of Cali Cab is Shafer Hillside Select. Old or new it is wonderful. New World Chard? Peter Michael. Other varieties hold some interest, but these are the pillars. These scream New World-western hemisphere.

[OrlandoRobert]

In the past year I have bought:

Sky Zin, two cases. A very old world profile.

Bedrock Zin, one case. Killer old vineyards.

Beau Rivage Chenin Blanc, two cases. William Kelley makes this most excellent, quaffable wine.

Halcon Syrah, one case. Mountain fruit, powerful and savory.

Frogs Leap Cab, 1/2 case. Old Napa right here, love the dusty Rutherford profile.

Mixed case of Ravenswood Zin direct from Joel, from 1987 to 2004.

I’ve bought a handful of Cabs, like Mayacamas, Ovid, etc, for guests when they come over.

May sound like a lot, but that’s a minor percentage overall. I was surprised I have not bought any Ridge, my last purchase is four of its 2016 vintage. I just struggled more and more with their use of American oak.

[Nicklasss]

Surely all Ridge Vineyards wines. I appreciated very much the wines from Turley too, the rare time I had them.

I like Penfold's stuff, even if i don't buy it so often.

I like a Howell Montains Cabernet called Camiana.

I like Semillon fron the Hunter Valley.

And when you want a lot of power for low price, Washington State wines around 20$ are the best.

I don't know if one day i will buy again some Chilean or Argentina wines, but Clos des Fous in Chile is interesting. For Argentina, i would like to have an intense immersion locally in their wine country.

[Nicklasss]

I like Oregon pinot, but buy it very rarely. Maybe a mistake from my part.

[SF Ed]

I forgot to add how much I like wines from South America, especially from Uruguay and Argentina. They are almost always super ripe but very fun, especially when in South America. Try a Torrontes if you see a recent one when its warm if you like floral ripe whites, and its hard to beat Malbec for value. I definitely enjoy Tannat in Uruguay, especially ones made with little oak. Alto de la Ballena Tannat/Viognier is a good one.

[Blanquito]

Rhys chardonnay is right up there with my favorite new world whites, along with Mount Eden Estate chardonnay and Ridge’s chardonnays. Don’t recall having had any Ceritas whites. I think there’s a lot of delicious chardonnay coming out of a Cali these days — the ones mentioned plus Liquid Farm, Failla, Enfield, Ojai, Wind Gap, and others. In the final analysis, these don’t really run with top white burgundy but they are just so much cheaper it’s hard to really compare them.

[Blanquito]

Thinking about it some more, I have to say Ridge Geyserville is my favorite new world wine. I certainly had a lot of it cellared. I just wish there were more cabs that I liked. For relatively recent releases, I think Togni is probably my favorite cali cab, in part because Dominus is now priced out of my league.

I must add that I’m a little surprised by all the love for Oregon. I really enjoy some Oregon wines, but pinot noir isn’t really high on my must-buy list and I tend to think of Oregon as more of a QPR region overall.

[jal]

Sorry but I'd rather buy any Chablis Village or regular Bourgogne Blanc (not Aligoté) than any CA Chardonnay at the same price point. I tried Rhys Chardonnay and Pinot, yes they are well made but price wise they're just not there for me. Plus, I don't need to be on a mailing list and wait for an allocation.

[Blanquito]

I hear you Jacques, and when top flight Chablis was $30 or even less (from Premier Cru ), I didn’t give cali chardonnay the time of day. But with stalwarts like L. Michel and Billaud Simon fetching up to $65 for top vineyards, cali chard gets a lot more worthwhile. With the exception of Rhys and Mount Eden, I can get the rest of those new world chardonnay for $30-35, sometimes less than $30.

[JCNorthway]

I admit to not having recent personal experience with Cali Chardonnays, but unless the ones I tasted 10 or so years ago have undergone a major character makeover, I'm in Jal's camp regarding Chablis and Bourgogne in the same (or lower) price range.

[AKR]

I hear you Jacques, and when top flight Chablis was $30 or even less (from Premier Cru ), I didn’t give cali chardonnay the time of day. But with stalwarts like L. Michel and Billaud Simon fetching up to $65 for top vineyards, cali chard gets a lot more worthwhile. With the exception of Rhys and Mount Eden, I can get the rest of those new world chardonnay for $30-35, sometimes less than $30.

I was dropping off the kids at my sisters, and drove by John Fox's old lair on University Ave today. The husk of the Premier Cru building is still vacant, haunting the street, signs removed. I think the BK case is still percolating, and Bank of the Bay must still have liens on the place, unable to move forward.

Fox was soliciting 'investors' on WB btw, before the mods deleted his account. Sad, but I don't think he has reformed, recanted, repented. As expensive as it is to confine him, think of how much damage he does on the loose.

[Blanquito]

Just my perception of course, but the ones I mentioned are much more old world in their stylings than the large bulk of cali chard, especially Liquid Farm and Enfield. Ridge’s are richer than most Bourgogne, and Rhys’ style seems vineyard and vintage specific with some quite Burgundian and others much richer and tropical even. Not sure what Wind Gap’s style is like these days, but the 07–12 run was pretty Chablis in style and these are still going strong 10+ years after the harvest. Plus they were usually $20-$28 (and I reloaded some of the 2010 for $12 recently) so if they lack some of the mineralite of Chablis, I can give Pax some slack.

But that all said, I am mostly defending the value of these chardonnays — putting price aside, nothing can really compete white burgundy for my mileage (except Austrian Riesling and the occasional brilliant Vouvray).

[jal]

Patrick, I agree about the earth not moving with Oregon Pinot, but the earth only moves so infrequently these days; mostly with old Bordeaux or White Burgundy. Like Bill and Jon, for dinner at home, I'll take the food friendly Oregon offerings most anytime, and occasionally some red Bourgogne, Langhes or Côtes du Rhône.
I liked the Ceritas Pinots, Ian but found the Chardonnay a little too flabby for me, yes even the Porter Bass.
I also had my Beaujolais phase and found out I much prefer OR Pinot Noir and regular red Bourgogne to Beaujolais, so I'm not buying those anymore.

[stefan]

My new New World Chardonnay go to wines are from Goodfellow Cellars. I particularly like those from Whistling Ridge. So far I have drunk only young ones, but I have read that they age very well.

[Claret]

Nice to see love for Oregon and SI. I have yet to be wowed by Momtazi. Should I drink my single 08 now? Also sitting on 3 2008 Special Selection, as yet untasted.

Older Dominus would be my Meritage winner.

[JoelD]

For Oregon Pinot, I specifically love the Dundee Hills. Drouhin is great, White Rose as well. About as Burgundian as it gets in the new world. I feel that once you go south, its warmer and bigger wines. They are making some decent chardonnay in Oregon now too.

For Cali, I like Howell and Diamond Mountain.

[Claudius2]

Guys
Well I have a completely different list of fav New World wines.
To my palate Australia makes the best white wine in the world outside the best vineyards of the Cote D’or but I admit to unabashed bias.

I like a lot of Australian Cabernets from Margaret River, Coonawarra and Yarra Valley plus Shiraz that does not taste like tar.

I like Cali Cabs but they are hard to find here and way over priced. Some South African wines are pretty good too.

[rthomaspaull]

Some Napa Valley Cabs (e,g, Shafer). I used to drink Chateau Montelena (?) cabs and Chards, Sta. Rita Hills PNs (and Chards, e.g. Brewer Clifton), used to drink Oregon PNs, Chateau Ste. Michelle Chard & Sauv. Blanc, good bargains Hogue wines, Margerum Sybarite and Brander Sauv. Blancs, My wife (esp.) & I drink many of the above whites, but I drink mainly left bank Red Bordeaux. rthomaspaull

[marcs]

I seem to have very cliched perspectives based on this thread. When it comes to California cabs, I have 5 cases of Togni, 4 cases of Ridge Monte Bello, and one case of Dominus. Except for a few old Mondavi Reserves from the 1990s that's pretty much my California reds.

I don't mind the Monte Bello oak, but I do mind how shut down and tart the fruit in the wine is for many years -- that's what really foregrounds the oak early on. Most of my Monte Bello won't be ready to drink for many years, as I have a case of 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2015 (ok three or four bottles sprinkled around from earlier years). I figure I can always sell them if I get too tired of waiting.

[Blanquito]

Interesting, MS. On some level, you’re the only one really defending Monte Bello in this thread. Given the pricing on MB these days (often more than $200 at auction), some hosannas would be reassuring to those of us holding.

What’s your preferred drinking window for Monte Bello?

[marcs]

Well, I'm not actually super experienced with MB either. What happened was during my auction buying binge last year I got a relatively "good deal" on a couple of cases of Ridge (about $140 a bottle, less for 2011 -- still expensive but below retail and well below older vintages) so decided to invest. I have had some 1990s Monte Bellos I really liked, but I have also had the experience of the fruit staying cranberry-ish and clenched/shut down and the oak being relatively prominent in comparison even on bottles over a decade old. I would say you really want to wait on these until 15-20+ years old. I too could use some reassurance on what will happen with these cases, but I figure I can always sell them if I decide to.