1985 Ducru Beaucaillou

[stefan]

Tonight with chicken souffle and sliced tomatoes we drank

1985 Ducru Beaucaillou. The nose is great and very pure with red cherries. The taste is as expected from the bouquet with red cassis at the sides, licorice in the middle, and resolved tannins. "Oh, my goodness," sighs Lucie. "Wouldn't you like to drink this all the time?" I ask. "No, because then I would not swoon at the first sip." "There is some smoke in the nose," comments Lucie, and continues, "the nose gets better and better." Tasty on the tonsils, too. This is a refined and elegant wine; St. Julien's answer for Lafite. stefan 93. Lucie 93-94.

stefan

[johnz]

"St. Julien's answer for Lafite"

Yes, well said. For some reason there was a lot of this wine around the Twin Cities on release and well after for a good price ($30?), and I've had this wine perhaps ten times -- early ('95) when it was still surprisingly closed, and quite recently when I've found it still excellent and holding up well. It is the classic bright fruited St. Julien married to the nearly always friendly 1985 vintage. The '85 Ducru has never completely "wowed" me or earned a stellar-like 95 pt. score, but it's a lovely claret, and I dread the day coming when my last bottle is gone, which will be very soon.

--Gary Rust

[JimHow]

I recall drinking this wine around 1998/99 and thinking it was kind of lightweight and uninteresting. It was on the cusp of Ducru's musty cellar problems. But like Lafite it is a wine that lives a deceptively long time.

[stefan]

I was surprised how good this Ducru was. Unfortunately, I have no more and the current price is around $130.

stefan

[JimHow]

Do we ever see negative notes about Ducru? Almost never.

[sdr]

The '85 Ducru is a sentimental favorite of mine, often besting the erratic '82. It's never flashy, but calmly pleasing in that slightly austere Ducru way.

~stuart

[Ramon_NYC]

Do we ever see negative notes about Ducru? Almost never.

I recently had a good 1981 (TN posted). Am looking forward to uncorking a '98 very soon.

[dstgolf]

Jim,

Long lived Ducru is well stated. I'll never forget Chris and Werner buying a few bottles of 59 Ducru in the dowtown Bordeaux wine shop that we visited in 2005 with BWE. They presented the first bottle at a blind tasting with Jean Guillaume the owner and host at Rolland de By. He amazingly nailed the chateau and vintage blindly. The second pleasant experience was when Danielle and I stopped in to San Fran on the way to Hawaii and they surprised us with a magnificent and even more memorable bottle of 59 Ducru that was singing. Even more special that it was the birth year of Danielle and one of the other ladies attending. No question Ducru is one for the ages and must say it is one that we love but unfortunately no longer have any left in the cellar.

Danny

[JimHow]

A '61 Ducru I had with some BWEers in Boston a number of years ago was sublime....

[Claudius]

I drank the 85 several times in the late 90s, early 00s, and liked it a lot without it ever blowing me away.
It is a quite earthy style, medium bodied and could do with a touch more complexity and depth.
I have found 85 to be a good rather than great vintage - I could name numerous wines that were a bit light and simple though still nice drinks - that to me characterise the vintage. And not a great year for the first growths either.

I am not saying it is a dud vintage, just one that was to my palate that was a bit over-rated.

Jim
I think the problems with Ducru were from 86 to 90.
The taint was most evident in 88 and 89 to my taste (the 88 was particularly bad but apparently not all bottles were affected).
The cause was later found to be a fungicidal paint used in the chais and legal proceedings arose from it.

[JonoB]

Of the three 86s I've tried, one has been sublime and two horribly tainted, but in a way that it seemed the cork was not at fault as the TCA just seemed to sit on top of every sip, rather than engulf the wine!

I don't think any of those vintages got off lightly!

[Comte Flaneur]

The most affected vintage at Ducru seems to be 1989 - I have had very good luck with 86, 88 and 90

Regarding Mark's comments on the 1985 vintage I can see where he is coming from but I get the impression that this vintage is a dark horse, which you write off at your peril. I agree with Mark's assessment of the 1985 Ducru based on a mid-90s sampling - it was a bit boring and lightweight back then, especially next to the 1986. And Parker was distinctly underwhelmed when he reviewd the 1985 Lafite as if to say 'is that all you've got?

Wind the clock forward to my birthday in May this year, and Jono presented me a wine to taste blind with the only clue being that it was an '85. This was a mightily impressive wine just about approaching its plateau; it tasted too substantive to be a 1985 left bank. Nor did it taste like a right bank. Confused I ventured Sassicaia. Wrong; it was Lafite. It was in the same league as the 1989 we had in October.

A few weeks after the 1989 tasting, where I rated Conseillante in the top four, Jono showed the 1985 La Conseillante, and that too is a fantastic wine just hitting its stride and about equal to the 1989. I would love to try the Ducru today, especially based on stefan's latest notes. Maybe we should make the 1985 vintage the subject of our next annual horizontal in October 2010.

[stefan]

I regret having drunk virtually all of our 1985s. I have at most half a case left.

stefan

[JonoB]

A few weeks after the 1989 tasting, where I rated Conseillante in the top four, Jono showed the 1985 La Conseillante, and that too is a fantastic wine just hitting its stride and about equal to the 1989. I would love to try the Ducru today, especially based on stefan's latest notes. Maybe we should make the 1985 vintage the subject of our next annual horizontal in October 2010.

Having spoken with Jean-Michel at that La Conseillante dinner, I would also hazard to say that given my surprise at the vibrancy and acid of 82 being higher than that bottle of 85, Jean-Michel said that perhaps it was a bad bottle, and if it were it wasn't too shabby at all... perhaps a great, maybe even the best 85 available; but to be honest, I haven't tried the big boys from the right bank yet!

85 MArgaux, LAfite, and Mouton are superb in their own ways!
Latour and Haut-Brion seem to die away; but are still nice after about 30-60 minutes in the glass!

A trying of the Lynch in the summer made me sit up as well! It has a lot of weight and will go on.

The 85 LAfite also always seems to have something hidden in reserve for a rainy day...



...just to brighten things up!

[johnz]

I have read a lot of comment on the 1985 Bordeaux vintage over the last 10-15 years on this board and others, and I have taken note of many Bordeaux lovers' assessment of some of the top wines. Some of us label the vintage as "simple" or "light" but not "bad" and leave it at that. I've always really liked the 1985 wines I've had. The vintage has it's weaknesses for sure, especially the Firsts, but while I've found Mouton, Latour and Lafite not living up to First status, I think Haut Brion and Margaux are beautiful wines -- especially right now. My top 1985s also include Leoville Las Cases, La Mission and Lynch -- all terrific now if stored well, and I think some Right Bankers might also be at top level (Cheval Blanc, Lefleur, others). I would not put the '85 Ducru in with the top wines of the vintage, but it is really good, as I think is Pichon Lalande, Gruaud, Leoville Barton, Cos, others -- to me all with classic bordeaux qualities and complexities -- but certainly not the tannic fruit bombs of many '86, '89, '90 or '95/'96 wines.

1985 Bordeaux is my kind of wine, but it's clearly not everyone's.

--Gary Rust

[Claudius]

Gary
I drank 2 cases of the 1985 Gruaud Larose and really liked it.
Okay, all gone by 2000 or so, I happily glugged it away from 1995 onwards and loved it.
It was never a big wine, and not the old fashioned GL style like the 86 or 88.
Medium weight only, with a complex yet lightish mouthfeel.
Funny but I think after 86 went downhill - another Cordier estate that was eventually sold to the Lurtons (I think in 93).
I bought the 04 and 05 after a long hiatus - I hope they are as good as the 85.